How does God's sovereignty work through free will?

[Rapturechris]

Last night as I was reading through the book of John and recalled Jesus sharing that he come to bring his sheep to himself.
When we have a look at John 10:14
"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,” what’s the first thing that comes to mind?
Jesus is here to call out to people for salvation? Yes, your right however don’t they get to be his sheep after the call and submission?
Throughout the Bible Gods gives hints that he has chosen his eternal flock before the creation of the world to reign with him in eternity forever. If that’s the case then why does he need to save people if he has already chosen us?
The answer is simple. God chose you in his mind before all of creation to reign with him forever but you have to go through a process to fur- full that sovereign call.

You cannot be a child of God unless you are like him even though you already belong to him and your name is in the book of life. For this to happen you need to be received through the process of redemption, sanctification and glorification. That happens of course by accepting Jesus Christ as your redeemer, saviour and lord.
Simply God uses Jesus as the process to seal your sonship (man or woman) into the promise he created for you before you were born.
How it works-
First of all, God in his sovereign power works everything out. From the start of creation to the end. He has an eternal plan and praise God we are a part of it if not the centre together with him. For us to have the right to be children of God he doesn’t give it to us lightly. In his eternal mind he creates another dimension outside of eternity. He creates the universe and planet earth. Allows Satan, death and decay to be the caretaker of it and creates us within it. We fall and are humbled and God starts the process of his story book the Bible.
In that he sends us Jesus. Jesus comes looking for his sheep. What sheep are they?

They are the sheep that God created in his mind before he created the universe! The sheep destined to eternal life with God forever that are going through the process of redemption.
The thing is we can choose to reject that process through Jesus Christ. We can reject the Holy Spirit and go to hell. So obviously those who did it never were Gods sheep in the first place even though he gives people the opportunity to come to him and reject him in his creation.
Even Paul talks about people being created for eternal destruction as so does Jesus in the Gospels. Paul calls them “sons of wrath” destined for hell by Gods sovereignty. Jesus also explained that the people who rejected him were not his sheep.
If we have a closer look at what Jesus was saying he was saying this. “But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

Simply if you belong to God and are destined for eternity with God then you will hear the cry of Jesus calling you into the process through him.
If you don’t come to Jesus then he is a stranger and you were destined for eternal destruction in hell.
A careful look at the New Testament explains that real belief in Jesus is to obey him and have his word and life bubbling out of you. If you hear his voice then you truly belong to him and will accept the process of transformation by his redemption and Holy Spirit. Whatever we choose to do by our free will has actually already been preordained by God. We just don’t know the end result. The good news is if we hold on to Jesus tightly then be rest assured we were destined for eternal life.

The more grace God gives us then the more we are assured of eternal life and being his mouth piece to whomever he wills.
When Jesus came he offered eternal life to all through the cross however God in his sovereignty knew that not all would take it and they are the sons and daughters of wrath predestined for eternal destruction.

So, in this life we have a choice but actually everything has already been predestined by God. So, if you belong to him praise his name because you could have easily been predestined for destruction. This is why God is to be revered in this life and worshipped and we are to live Holy Lives. The position we are in is humbling but magnificent. We are actually walking out our predestined lives before creation began.

This is the God we worship thanks be to Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So, in this life we have a choice but actually everything has already been predestined by God.

Sorry, but you are seriously mistaken. Had you said everything is already FOREKNOWN by God, that would be different, and in accordance with Scripture. Foreknowledge is not the same as predetermination or predestination.

God did not create robots or marionettes or puppets. He made human beings in His image and likeness, and gave each one a free will to freely make choices. God also showed mankind the consequences of good choices over bad choices. God offers salvation to all mankind, but all must obey the Gospel in order to be saved. That is a choice and a decision.

Here is a man -- King Agrippa -- who made a bad decision, even though he could have made a good decision.

ACTS 26
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

30 And when he had thus spoken, the king rose up, and the governor, and Bernice, and they that sat with them:

The context makes it clear that God did not predetermine King Agrippa to be an unbeliever. That was his choice, although he came very close to making the right choice and the right decision.

 

[Magenta]

Even Paul talks about people being created for eternal destruction as so does Jesus in the Gospels. Paul calls them “sons of wrath” destined for hell by Gods sovereignty.

Are you referring to when Paul asked a "what-if" question?

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Word teaches we are foreknown by the Father, have all taken into consideration the reference is to the moment we accepted Jesus, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit confirmed it in our hearts?

I know I am foreknown in this regard; perhaps you do too.

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Word teaches we are foreknown by the Father, have all taken into consideration the reference is to the moment we accepted Jesus, Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit confirmed it in our hearts?

I know I am foreknown in this regard; perhaps you do too.

It should be mentioned dthat knowing us aforetime is referring to before the Kingdombut not the end of this age.

 

[Adstar]

Sorry, but you are seriously mistaken. Had you said everything is already FOREKNOWN by God, that would be different, and in accordance with Scripture. Foreknowledge is not the same as predetermination or predestination.

Correct.. Scriptures declare that God foreknew them before predestining them to be conformed to the image of His son..

Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom He did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Note it does not say he predestined them to believe and accept Jesus.. It only says He already know they where going to accept His message, His gift of grace.. And from his foreknowledge He could predesinate them to end up like the LORD Jesus Christ..

 

[JaumeJ]

No man comes to the Father but by Me. Yeshua brings us to be foreknown by the Father from this age. Were we foreknown before creation of all that is, being brought to the Father by Jesus would be unnecessary, moot, needless....

 

[garee]

Last night as I was reading through the book of John and recalled Jesus sharing that he come to bring his sheep to himself.
When we have a look at John 10:14
"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,” what’s the first thing that comes to mind?
Jesus is here to call out to people for salvation? Yes, your right however don’t they get to be his sheep after the call and submission?
Throughout the Bible Gods gives hints that he has chosen his eternal flock before the creation of the world to reign with him in eternity forever. If that’s the case then why does he need to save people if he has already chosen us?
The answer is simple. God chose you in his mind before all of creation to reign with him forever but you have to go through a process to fur- full that sovereign call.

You cannot be a child of God unless you are like him even though you already belong to him and your name is in the book of life. For this to happen you need to be received through the process of redemption, sanctification and glorification. That happens of course by accepting Jesus Christ as your redeemer, saviour and lord.
Simply God uses Jesus as the process to seal your sonship (man or woman) into the promise he created for you before you were born.
How it works-
First of all, God in his sovereign power works everything out. From the start of creation to the end. He has an eternal plan and praise God we are a part of it if not the centre together with him. For us to have the right to be children of God he doesn’t give it to us lightly. In his eternal mind he creates another dimension outside of eternity. He creates the universe and planet earth. Allows Satan, death and decay to be the caretaker of it and creates us within it. We fall and are humbled and God starts the process of his story book the Bible.
In that he sends us Jesus. Jesus comes looking for his sheep. What sheep are they?

They are the sheep that God created in his mind before he created the universe! The sheep destined to eternal life with God forever that are going through the process of redemption.
The thing is we can choose to reject that process through Jesus Christ. We can reject the Holy Spirit and go to hell. So obviously those who did it never were Gods sheep in the first place even though he gives people the opportunity to come to him and reject him in his creation.
Even Paul talks about people being created for eternal destruction as so does Jesus in the Gospels. Paul calls them “sons of wrath” destined for hell by Gods sovereignty. Jesus also explained that the people who rejected him were not his sheep.
If we have a closer look at what Jesus was saying he was saying this. “But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

Simply if you belong to God and are destined for eternity with God then you will hear the cry of Jesus calling you into the process through him.
If you don’t come to Jesus then he is a stranger and you were destined for eternal destruction in hell.
A careful look at the New Testament explains that real belief in Jesus is to obey him and have his word and life bubbling out of you. If you hear his voice then you truly belong to him and will accept the process of transformation by his redemption and Holy Spirit. Whatever we choose to do by our free will has actually already been preordained by God. We just don’t know the end result. The good news is if we hold on to Jesus tightly then be rest assured we were destined for eternal life.

The more grace God gives us then the more we are assured of eternal life and being his mouth piece to whomever he wills.
When Jesus came he offered eternal life to all through the cross however God in his sovereignty knew that not all would take it and they are the sons and daughters of wrath predestined for eternal destruction.

So, in this life we have a choice but actually everything has already been predestined by God. So, if you belong to him praise his name because you could have easily been predestined for destruction. This is why God is to be revered in this life and worshipped and we are to live Holy Lives. The position we are in is humbling but magnificent. We are actually walking out our predestined lives before creation began.

This is the God we worship thanks be to Jesus.

Amen. I would add. God's sovereignty works in those those a freed. A new will created free of the wages of death. Giving those dead in their trespasses a new living hope, a living will of the faith that we might finish the will of our new spiritual food.. . a living will.
The food is ready the fields they are white already to harvest the wonder bread .

The question is... Will we abide in our free will or again subject our own selves to the will of the god of this world ?

The will in bondage to sin? I would think as our daily bread.... His will be done as it is in heaven .God's hand of sovereignty

John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV)Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

 

[dcontroversal]

MANY are called, but few CHOSEN......MANY and FEW does not equal ALL.....

God predetermined before the casting down of the world that ALL who would come to him through CHRIST would be received as full grown sons and daughters....

God knows who will and who will not believe......and his call is based upon said knowledge.................

 

[crossnote]

crossnote<---grabs his popcorn

 

[garee]

MANY are called, but few CHOSEN......MANY and FEW does not equal ALL.....

God predetermined before the casting down of the world that ALL who would come to him through CHRIST would be received as full grown sons and daughters....

God knows who will and who will not believe......and his call is based upon said knowledge.................

Yes . I would call that the "as many as" doctrine as a personal private interpretation (my opinion) of His law .

The ones that are chosen equals all . As many as, as the father gave to the son they will come. Not one more or one less.

A couple examples

Matthew 14:36And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly

(perfectly whole or complete as one)


Mark 3:10For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.

Again like below as many as that heard the voice of his faith working in the me to both will and to the good pleasure of the father .moved by that good pleasure not of themselves.

Mark 6:56 And whithersoever he entered, into villages, or cities, or country, they laid the sick in the streets, and besought him that they might touch if it were but the border of his garment: and as many as touched him were made whole.

ohn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[crossnote]

Don't forget God's providence in all this..'where and when you were born', into what family', when you die, the acquaintances you make etc., all are not happen stance but God leads and guides and picks what's what.

John 6:65 KJV
[65] And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Revelation 22:17 KJV
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I can play both sides of the aisle on this one. Instead I'll eat my popcorn lol.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The call is for all. " All are called few are chosen." Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all and all sin forgiven through him and him alone.
When the witness of a person being obedient to the Lord is given, the holy Spirit convicts, and grants faith to believe. A person can harden his resolve and resist out of his free will. But if he surrenders his free will then the conviction by the spirit convinces the need for Christ and provides the faith to believe bringing about repentance, and granting grace and salvation. Our free will is good for rejection alone being completely depraved. One must surrender free will to the conviction being convinced of guilt and need for Christ. Then faith and grace is granted. We must break under the load of our guilt, which comes by conviction of the Holy spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

The call is for all. " All are called few are chosen." Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all and all sin forgiven through him and him alone.
When the witness of a person being obedient to the Lord is given, the holy Spirit convicts, and grants faith to believe. A person can harden his resolve and resist out of his free will. But if he surrenders his free will then the conviction by the spirit convinces the need for Christ and provides the faith to believe bringing about repentance, and granting grace and salvation. Our free will is good for rejection alone being completely depraved. One must surrender free will to the conviction being convinced of guilt and need for Christ. Then faith and grace is granted. We must break under the load of our guilt, which comes by conviction of the Holy spirit.

Does not say ALL are called....says MANY are called, but few chosen.....NOT all are called...the wicked GO ASTRAY from the WOMB

 

[Rapturechris]

Sorry, but you are seriously mistaken. Had you said everything is already FOREKNOWN by God, that would be different, and in accordance with Scripture. Foreknowledge is not the same as predetermination or predestination.

God did not create robots or marionettes or puppets. He made human beings in His image and likeness, and gave each one a free will to freely make choices. God also showed mankind the consequences of good choices over bad choices. God offers salvation to all mankind, but all must obey the Gospel in order to be saved. That is a choice and a decision.

Here is a man -- King Agrippa -- who made a bad decision, even though he could have made a good decision.

ACTS 26
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

30 And when he had thus spoken, the king rose up, and the governor, and Bernice, and they that sat with them:

The context makes it clear that God did not predetermine King Agrippa to be an unbeliever. That was his choice, although he came very close to making the right choice and the right decision.

if his name isn't in the book of life which has already been determined by God then regardless of free will he has been determined into either heaven or hell long before creation started. The here and now is nothing compared to eternity. God comes from that place we dont. The decisions made here and still yet to be made are like a past already gone to God. You look at things from a worldly view and God looks at things from a heavenly view. So I think your seriously mistaken friend.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Does not say ALL are called....says MANY are called, but few chosen.....NOT all are called...the wicked GO ASTRAY from the WOMB

I went astray from the womb also. And I still have my fights to fight, i win some and loose others. I love Jesus and my faith is in him alone, and I know that I bring nothing to the table, but he can make anything from nothing.

 

[Nehemiah6]

if his name isn't in the book of life which has already been determined by God then regardless of free will he has been determined into either heaven or hell long before creation started.

Actually every name is in the book of life until a person fails to, or refuse to, believe the Gospel. So all could be saved if all would repent and believe. You have a warped idea about God, who offers salvation freely to WHOSOEVER will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[JohnRH]

The answer is simple. God chose you in his mind before all of creation to reign with him forever but you have to go through a process to fur- full that sovereign call.

God autocratically chose people who are in Christ (already saved) to be holy and without blame. He autocratically predestinated people who are in Christ to adoption.
He didn't autocratically choose or predestine any individual to become 'in Christ'.

... he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love having predestinated us unto the adoption of children ...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is a question.

Is gods sovereignty more glory to his honor if he works THROUGH free will, or if he works outside free will? (IE, there is no free will)

You have any popcorn to share while I wait for the answer crossnote?

 

[JohnRH]

Here is a question.

Is gods sovereignty more glory to his honor if he works THROUGH free will, or if he works outside free will? (IE, there is no free will)

A child can sovereignly predestinate a wind-up toy to cross the room and touch the corner of the couch.
I think the child would be worthy of more honor if he worked to train his puppy to cross the room and touch it; whether the dog obeys or not. The child can externally influence the puppy's will but he can't alter that will's constitutional, created make-up.