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The baptism in the Holy Spirit is after salvation as is recorded in acts.
Unless you think salvatiin is received through the laying on of hands.
Is that how they give alter calls? By laying on of hands?
The jailer: what must i do to be saved?
Paul; i will lay hands on you to receive the Holy Spirit"
Uh,no that of course is a separate different issue.
You dont believe the bible.
You reject truth.
You are in that powerless loop of your friends,lead into changing the word by false backslidden leaders.
The baptism was given for power. Power for the great comission,and power to live Holy.
Unless you think salvatiin is received through the laying on of hands.
Is that how they give alter calls? By laying on of hands?
The jailer: what must i do to be saved?
Paul; i will lay hands on you to receive the Holy Spirit"
Uh,no that of course is a separate different issue.
You dont believe the bible.
You reject truth.
You are in that powerless loop of your friends,lead into changing the word by false backslidden leaders.
The baptism was given for power. Power for the great comission,and power to live Holy.
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Please provide experiential scriptures showing when someone received the Holy Ghost the moment they believed without the evidence of speaking in tongues. There are none. Every experience recorded includes the message being given to repent, get water baptized in Jesus' name and receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38, 8, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)
Even Paul conveyed the notion that belief and receiving the Holy Ghost are distinct from one another. Acts 19:1-6
Even Paul conveyed the notion that belief and receiving the Holy Ghost are distinct from one another. Acts 19:1-6
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Not an "additional blessing" sometimes the term causes confusion, I would say another work that the Holy Spirit does. Jesus is now the Resurrected Lord. And able to do what HE said HE would do prior to His death in John 14:18 " I will not leave you comfortless."
We who are saved have the Holy Spirit in us which we know we are the children of God. Yet we also have the Holy Spirit working alongside us with empowerment. Jesus HE would be with you and IN you; two works right there of the Holy Spirit as Jesus said.
With you and in you. Jesus also said you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes Upon you Acts 1:8.
We who are saved have the Holy Spirit in us which we know we are the children of God. Yet we also have the Holy Spirit working alongside us with empowerment. Jesus HE would be with you and IN you; two works right there of the Holy Spirit as Jesus said.
With you and in you. Jesus also said you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes Upon you Acts 1:8.
I did not mean to imply that Paul neglected to mention salvation concepts to the Ephesians. The church was established well before Paul wrote the Ephesians letter you reference. Each epistle Paul wrote was written to people who were already Christians. His letters certainly differed in content and just because some do not mention what others do is not proof that a concept should be dismissed. The whole point is that the bible as a whole is to be studied and "puzzle pieces" are to be connected in order to understand what God expects of us.
Paul's understanding that water baptism in Jesus' name as well as the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues was necessary after belief in Jesus is documented in Acts 19:1-6. There are also a number of scriptures where Paul administers or talks about concepts pertaining to water baptism; Acts 16:12-15, 16:25-34, 18:1-17, 1 Cor 1:13-16. One can conclude that Paul knew water baptizing was necessary or he would not have administered it.
Paul's understanding that water baptism in Jesus' name as well as the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues was necessary after belief in Jesus is documented in Acts 19:1-6. There are also a number of scriptures where Paul administers or talks about concepts pertaining to water baptism; Acts 16:12-15, 16:25-34, 18:1-17, 1 Cor 1:13-16. One can conclude that Paul knew water baptizing was necessary or he would not have administered it.
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Have you read acts? Acts has MANY examples of people listening to pauls message, and many jew and gentile getting saved with no mention of speaking in tongues, and no command for them to be baptised.
Your stuck on two maybe 3 examples. Two or three events do not make a doctrine, when the mass majority show otherwise.
Your stuck on two maybe 3 examples. Two or three events do not make a doctrine, when the mass majority show otherwise.
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Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Scripture is clear.
At this very moment and for the rest of my life on earth, I am being sanctified
Yet I have been perfected forever.
Whether I feel it or not does not matter, Its why in Eph paul told us to sit and KNOW what we have given, before we get up to walk. Our walk minus the knowledge of hp in Christ will fail.
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Scripture is clear.
At this very moment and for the rest of my life on earth, I am being sanctified
Yet I have been perfected forever.
Whether I feel it or not does not matter, Its why in Eph paul told us to sit and KNOW what we have given, before we get up to walk. Our walk minus the knowledge of hp in Christ will fail.
Do you or do you not believe a person has to receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved? It is clear from scripture that Paul knew believing and receiving the Holy Ghost were two separate things: He spoke the same message given on the Day of Pentecost and administered water baptism in Jesus' name and assisted in the disciples receiving the Holy Ghost:
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? (THIS MAKES A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO EVENTS)
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve. Acts 19:1-7
The same concept is seen in the Samaritan experience. Philip preaches the gospel and water baptizes individuals. They certainly believed the gospel.
Later Peter and John are sent to them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
Explain how it is possible that the concept that one receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe is accurate when the scriptures so clearly refute it?
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? (THIS MAKES A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO EVENTS)
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve. Acts 19:1-7
The same concept is seen in the Samaritan experience. Philip preaches the gospel and water baptizes individuals. They certainly believed the gospel.
Later Peter and John are sent to them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
Explain how it is possible that the concept that one receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe is accurate when the scriptures so clearly refute it?
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Yes I do. And paul tells us HOW we got it
Eph 1: 13 - 14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
1. Hear the word
2. Believe (true living faith)
3. Given the Holy Spirit as a pledge
No baptism in water, no tongues.
Once again
Eph 1: 13 - 14
See also pauls message in both of his missionary journeys, Same message every time.
Eph 1: 13 - 14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
1. Hear the word
2. Believe (true living faith)
3. Given the Holy Spirit as a pledge
No baptism in water, no tongues.
Once again
Eph 1: 13 - 14
See also pauls message in both of his missionary journeys, Same message every time.
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