Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.
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Most estimations of the earths entire population around -100/+100ad is between 150,000,000 and 200,000,000 so 1.1 million is a little over 1/2% of the total population in ad70 nowhere close to 1/3 of the worlds total population that die in scripture. So if a third of the total population died in ad70 and we take the lower estimate of population of 150,000,000 then 50 million people would have needed to die to say a third died. If the higher estimation is used of 200,000,000 the a third of the total is 66.6 million. So 1.1 million is still a very small percentage of the then worlds population in ad70.
Why are we speaking 'world's population' of 70AD when most of the casualties happened at Jerusalem...not even all of Israel? I'm honestly confused.
The four horsemen in Rev.6,seven seals ect. a third dies by famine, a 4th by ect.ect. so (if) it was fulfilled in ad70 as some think then if 1.1 million was a third of the worlds population then in ad 70 there were only 3.3 million people on the earth but there were way more that that. So it doesn't even match the numbers in Scripture,so it is not it's fulfillment.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Because for some reason, Some think that was the great tribulation Jesus spoke of. Which would be greater than the world has ever seen, or will ever see from that day forward.
I am still wondering how all life was threatened, forcing the return of Christ to put an end to the war to save the elect.
I believe that's what Jesus's ministry on earth is for.
Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. Jer.30:10
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Jn.14:27
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Mt.11:29
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
To begin with the Holy Place is the place of faith. It not this corrupted creation. The Kingdom of God never was here as it seems after the third day when God set up the corrupted time keepers .
We do not know Christ by looking to the rudiments of this world, the shadow that represent the Holy Pace it never was the real as if it was the heavenly Jerusalem .That ended when the veil was rent, the time of reformation had come .Not in 70 AD .When 70 AD came it had already cut off, any idea to look towards some sign in respect to Jewish flesh had ended .
When Christ said the demonstration was over, signaled by His words "it is finished" the veil was rent .
Not sure where the idea 70 AD came in unless you are trusting in the witness of men ?
The veil was rent ending sacrifice and burnt offering . Are you saying they continued to sacrifice as the abomination of desecration up until 70 AD and then 3 1/2 were added ?
I would think you would add them on. But the original question. What would it have to do Amillennialists /preterists having some difficulty over another idea. What would be the advantage of saying talking another kind of end time veiw?
I believe faith rather than race is the point of Jesus's parables. I believe being married to the Lord is to be one with him now. I believe Jacob's trouble is the persecution believers experience on account of our relationship to Christ.That's one of the primary purposes of "the time of Jacob's trouble"... to turn them into God's people (they will come to faith within/during the 7-yr trib/70th Wk, AFTER our Rapture). This is what "the birth PANGS" [aka the SEALS] are slated for, etc...
Romans 9:26 [re: Israel (whereas v.25 is about the Gentiles/Hos2:23b)] -
"And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them [Israel], Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
Hosea 1:10 [bsb] -
"Yet the number of the Israelites will be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or counted. And it will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’"
The Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of our Rapture, but rather the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (and the specific limited time period which leads UP TO that) which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth [Lk12:36-37-38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (that is, as an "already-wed Bridegroom") THEN the meal; i.e. the earthly MK]
Most of the parables Jesus gave speak of Israel and their future (at least, a great many of them do)
Most Jews reject Jesus as their King because they don't understand his victory. Most Christians have rejected Christ's victory in favor of the Jewish view, a humanistic view, of what victory looks like.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
The holy place in scripture ALWAYS refers to the inner most room in the temple called the Holy of Holy, or most holy place.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Mr. Soso I am busy on another thread presently...I will try to get back here someday....I know I am right though
....Matthew 24 was fulfilled in the time period surrounding 70 AD......just sayin...
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UnderGrace
Guest
I would offer. The name Jacob is not used in that way.
Salvation has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation.
Christianity is not a Jewish religion .
When the genealogy in respect to the spiritual seed (one) Christ had come ... indicating the generation of Christ (the new creature). it had come to a end Mathew 1. So did the need for the use of their flesh to be used as a metaphor in parables. The time of reformation had come
Their flesh as a outward Jew signified by the name Jacob (deceiver) is used to represent unconverted mankind or flesh and blood under the god of this the father of lies the deceiver .
Jacob is used to represent natural unconverted man as to the flesh of all mankind. The new name "Israel represents the new creature" . This is one is empowered by the gospel as yoked with Christ who does wrestles against flesh and blood (deal with the things of this world) by the new wisdom they are yoked with .;The new name he name Israel is Christian .The kingdom of priest according to the word prince. All believers are considered as Israel (those who have prevailed) and not Jacob as unconverted.(not prevailed)
Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
If we are not yoked with Christ we are powerless as Jacob.
The rest of Jacob was that he would bring them under the hearing of his word and have mercy on some. Again its never about the flesh of blood of one nation against another. That's another gospel
Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof. Jerimiah 30
I believe the scriptures are fulfilled by Jesus and in him.
Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Jer.30:6
Why should people who trust in God act like they've been kicked in the crotch? How do you suppose the Apostles felt after laying Jesus in a tomb?
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Jer.30:7
I believe the day that "none is like" refers to the persecution that was heaped on Jesus.
For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: Jer.30:8
The yoke to sin and the bond of death is what Jesus shattered.
This thread is centering on Amillennial views, there have been plenty of threads on other end time views.
Ok, if you add on the 1290 days you get 73AD +, what happened prophetically then? Nothing. When according to Amills take on Daniel, the Abomination of Desolation should of happened 3 1/2 years after the sacking of Jerusalem.
That is my point about that passage in Dan 12:11, it renders Amill nonsensical.
Daniel 12:11 KJVS
[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
By the way, this works in opposite fashion with the Preterists. Since all prophecies were completed by 70AD, counting backwards, the sacking of Jerusalem should have happened in 67AD.
And also the AoD Jesus mentions in the O.D. would be prior to ad66 because he says when it's image is set up(seen) to flee Judea and those outside to not enter. So up to ad58(approx./Acts 21) the apostles are still there involved in the temple as if they did not see it as then polluted by that AoD.(So from that time frame back Acts shows it not there yet by their actions).
If the AoD was the destruction of Jerusalem it's self then the sign(AoD) to leave would be after the danger(siege of Jerusalem) and not before so would also not fit Scripture. And if it's when his generals set up their ensigns(eagles) after the destruction then again the AoD would not be before the destruction and they would not have known to leave before it took place(was set up). In Wars 2 each time the Romans tried to set up pagan images the Jews resisted it to keep the temple from being polluted, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html
So beginning at the O.D. it was not there yet,then in Acts 21 still not yet set up,,,then during the war nor after...
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
You know what is interesting.
The Holy Place is so deep inside the temple. And so secure (only priests can come any where near it) That it would be impossible for anyone but them to see what was inside it. In fact. Only the high priest is allowed to enter, and then only once a year.
Yet jesus warned, When you SEE the abomination of desolation STANDING in the Holy Place.
How was that even possible in the first century AD?
Yep I've listened long and hard to see if the AoD,mark of the beast ect. could be explained by any of those who see it as fulfilled in the first century but everytime I get a different answer. One or two of them said they had no answer but most will still say it was fulfilled even though they cant show where or how,lol.