L
something like that but with a little more emphasis on the bandy 
but try not to be superior sounding
but try not to be superior sounding
-
1
- Show all
John 3:3
- Thread starter Wansvic
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I was going for southern gentleman.
L
I have a plan. If baptism is regenerative then we can get tons of people saved without even witnessing. All we have to do is go to the beaches and lakes and rivers resort areas this some and start dunking people in the name of Jesus. Just run up to them slam them under the water and shout in the name of Jesus pull them up and grab the next one. I bet we could get tons of people to a state of regeneration and be persecuted by being arrested at the same time. We will be super saints.
-
2
- Show all
Amen! In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
Works-salvationists fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing on Jesus Christ for eternal life, and cannot distinguish between mere "intellectual belief or assent" from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *This also explains why such people have so much faith in "water and works" and NOT in CHRIST ALONE.
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
Works-salvationists fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing on Jesus Christ for eternal life, and cannot distinguish between mere "intellectual belief or assent" from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *This also explains why such people have so much faith in "water and works" and NOT in CHRIST ALONE.
In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
-
1
- Show all
Works-salvationists fail to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine by isolating the first half of Mark 16:16 and ignoring the second half of the verse and also what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on the lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on the lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
-
2
- Show all
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
-
2
- Show all
I often hear this same bogus argument from Campbellites who also fail to accept that baptism is a work of righteousness. When Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him, John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?” But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him. (Matthew 3:13-15) Believers are not forced into the water and willingly come forward and submit to being water baptized, so work is accomplished by the believer and the person who is doing the baptizing.
-
1
- Show all
False. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water, which represents spiritual washing in regeneration accomplished through the Word of God at the moment of salvation. *Also see (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26; 1 Peter 1:23; Titus 3:5)
The crowd is full of Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites and other people mixed up in false religions and cults who ALL peddle salvation by water baptism. Red flag!
The narrow way, which leads unto life is through faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) which explains why few there be that find it. Many trust in works for salvation, which only leads down the broad way. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.
How is that for narrow?
The crowd is full of Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites and other people mixed up in false religions and cults who ALL peddle salvation by water baptism. Red flag!
The narrow way, which leads unto life is through faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) which explains why few there be that find it. Many trust in works for salvation, which only leads down the broad way. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.
How is that for narrow?
-
4
- Show all
Believing (faith) is a work . Water represents the doctrines of God . They fall as living moving or inspired from heaven.
The faithless Jew turned that upside down like the faithless Catholic through a law of the fathers oral traditions making that which is inspired from heaven without effect as the doctrines of men . No showers on the green grass used to represent the gospel falling on the believers.
Metaphors never become the eternal substance even when turned upside down .
Water evaporates. New born again spirits do not. Scriptures defines the metephors within this helps us unstand what it means to walk by faith..
Deuteronomy 32 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
When the disciples asked what work can they do to please God? Jesus replied ...It is the work of God who dwells in our earthen bodies of death Believing God is the work the Spirit( unseen things" .... Having faith that was not there previously is a work, without it we could not believe God.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.John 6:28-29
Remember He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases. It is God who works in us by that work we can believe, he makes our newly created hearts soft with the water of the word , This is rather than cut us off.
Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my addition to help make a point.
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: (Philippian 2:12 ) and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither hath he covered the darkness from my face.Job23:12-17
The faithless Jew turned that upside down like the faithless Catholic through a law of the fathers oral traditions making that which is inspired from heaven without effect as the doctrines of men . No showers on the green grass used to represent the gospel falling on the believers.
Metaphors never become the eternal substance even when turned upside down .
Water evaporates. New born again spirits do not. Scriptures defines the metephors within this helps us unstand what it means to walk by faith..
Deuteronomy 32 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
When the disciples asked what work can they do to please God? Jesus replied ...It is the work of God who dwells in our earthen bodies of death Believing God is the work the Spirit( unseen things" .... Having faith that was not there previously is a work, without it we could not believe God.
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.John 6:28-29
Remember He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases. It is God who works in us by that work we can believe, he makes our newly created hearts soft with the water of the word , This is rather than cut us off.
Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my addition to help make a point.
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: (Philippian 2:12 ) and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: Because I was not cut off before the darkness, neither hath he covered the darkness from my face.Job23:12-17
Where do you get this? It is not in Scripture anywhere. One verse in Deuteronomy doesn't support your idea. Rather, it says that the doctrines shall come as the rain, the dew, and the showers. You've gotten the simile backwards.
Did Moses divide the doctrines of God? No.
Did Elijah pray for the doctrines of God to fall on Israel? No.
Did Elisha withdraw the axe head from the doctrines of God? No.
Did John baptize Jesus in the doctrines of God? No.
Did Peter walk on the doctrines of God? No.
Your insistence on making everything figurative is leading to wacky, unbiblical conclusions.
Did Moses divide the doctrines of God? No.
Did Elijah pray for the doctrines of God to fall on Israel? No.
Did Elisha withdraw the axe head from the doctrines of God? No.
Did John baptize Jesus in the doctrines of God? No.
Did Peter walk on the doctrines of God? No.
Your insistence on making everything figurative is leading to wacky, unbiblical conclusions.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
-
1
- Show all
Faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
The comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
-
1
- Show all
John 1:31 NLT
I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”
In the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom.
But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace.
I did not recognize him as the Messiah, but I have been baptizing with water so that he might be revealed to Israel.”
In the 4 Gospels as well as early Acts, water baptism was required for the Jews to be saved under the gospel of the kingdom.
But now, Gentiles are saved by faith only, under the gospel of grace.
I think I was a little hasty in typing, I see your “tongue & cheek” response after slowing down, forgive me.
It seems the message of “faith alone in Christ alone” doctrine will always be assailed by those who say, “but that’s too easy.” I had nearly the same response from a CC acquaintance years ago when I quoted the words of Jesus when He said, “Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, body & soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. He got up from our table indignant and said, “if that was the case, anybody could be saved,” and stormed off.
It seems the message of “faith alone in Christ alone” doctrine will always be assailed by those who say, “but that’s too easy.” I had nearly the same response from a CC acquaintance years ago when I quoted the words of Jesus when He said, “Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, body & soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. He got up from our table indignant and said, “if that was the case, anybody could be saved,” and stormed off.
-
1
- Show all