The Lord Creates Evil

[Nehemiah6]

Yes you are right, but the name was never changed, he wasn’t called lucifer in heaven, that is made up theology out of Isaiah 14.

So now you are going to quibble over the translation of helel? The KJV could have translated it as "O Shining One", but Lucifer means exactly that -- Light Bringer.
'Lucifer "morning star," noun use of adjective, literally "light-bringing," from lux (genitive lucis) "light" (from PIE root *leuk- "light, brightness") + ferre "to carry, bear..."

To claim this is "made up theology" is TOTAL NONSENSE. Isaiah wrote by divine inspiration, and described Satan in chapter 14. It is God who said to Lucifer:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Do we see in Scripture that Satan wanted to be above God and to be worshipped as God? Here is what he said to Christ: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ecclesiastes 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make straight, which he hath made crooked?

I'm of the opinion, it is mans free choice which God grants everyone, whether they choose to become crooked or not.

The wicked go astray from the womb......I am confident a new born baby does not decide to go CROOKED........

 

[JamOn]

So now you are going to quibble over the translation of helel? The KJV could have translated it as "O Shining One", but Lucifer means exactly that -- Light Bringer.
'Lucifer "morning star," noun use of adjective, literally "light-bringing," from lux (genitive lucis) "light" (from PIE root *leuk- "light, brightness") + ferre "to carry, bear..."

To claim this is "made up theology" is TOTAL NONSENSE. Isaiah wrote by divine inspiration, and described Satan in chapter 14. It is God who said to Lucifer:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Do we see in Scripture that Satan wanted to be above God and to be worshipped as God? Here is what he said to Christ: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

I don’t think your following me, lucifer, satan, devil, is the same name for the one fallen morning star, there’s nothing in those scripture that says his name was changed nothing at all but for some odd reason people want to believe the English word Lucifer was his original name before the casting out. probably because that idea has been around for a couple of hundred years, old habits are hard to break.

Speaking on Isaiah 14 was the king of tyre satan?

 

[CharliRenee]

Is God Love? Agape in fact.

well I did a little research and you can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems you consider yourself a prophet and you have messages to the church in Brazil, so, unless I am wrong, you are speaking as a prophet here also, meaning a message directly from God via His Holy Spirit

I did find your youtube video and it is you speaking and you are the author here and not just posting

you entitle your video '
Prophet Elvis Welber Received a revelation from God to the Brazilian Church.'


I disagree with your interpretation in your post here and there are several reasons why that is so

you quote Isaiah 45:7 and you do note that the Hebrew word for evil has more than one meaning. However, you do not recognize that the same word does not actually mean evil in the sense we understand it when spoken in English...which is the language being utilized here

the Hebrew word ra'râ'âh means far more than what you say. it can actually mean adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery and similar. various Bibles have the same word translated in keeping with those meanings rather than simply 'evil'

the word can also refer to moral evil and is used often in the Hebrew scriptures so to simply translate it by saying 'evil' it is actually misleading in the context of the verse (context is king) and ignores the common use in other places

when considering all these things as well as context, it makes more sense to understand that God is both rewarding and punishing Israel for obedience and disobedience. God brings judgement on rebellion

what Isaiah is actually saying here is better understood as God brings disaster on those who rebel against Him (that is purposefully and continually)

we find this type of warning in the prophets and they are not saying that God created evil

considering the body of the Bible, we do not find that God has created evil but it can be said He allows it

saying He actually created it would make Him of two minds

Well expressed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Is God Love? Agape in fact.

Well expressed.

Many fail to recognize the magnitude of the "be verb"--> IS as applied unto God....

God IS LOVE
God is SPIRIT
God is LIGHT

ETC.....THE be verb points to a state of being......

 

[CharliRenee]

Many fail to recognize the magnitude of the "be verb"--> IS as applied unto God....

God IS LOVE
God is SPIRIT
God is LIGHT

ETC.....THE be verb points to a state of being......

I actually was going to expound more on those words I had written because to say God created evil in the way the OP presented is at odds with who He is. Before I did, I decided to read more responses and so when I responded to 7sear those words were still there and had nothing to do with my intended response to her. Oops!! But I'm glad because that was helpful to me, thank you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Many fail to recognize the magnitude of the "be verb"--> IS as applied unto God....

God IS LOVE
God is SPIRIT
God is LIGHT

ETC.....THE be verb points to a state of being......

The Spirit God whose essence is Light, Love and truth that dwells in an eternal heaven....came to be flesh, dwelled among us, was beaten, crucified, gave up his life to pay our sin amd then receives us by faith into his kingdom......

deep truth

 

[CharliRenee]

The Spirit God whose essence is Light, Love and truth that dwells in an eternal heaven....came to be flesh, dwelled among us, was beaten, crucified, gave up his life to pay our sin amd then receives us by faith into his kingdom......

deep truth

BAM, very deep and SPOT ON!!!

 

[pottersclay]

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[dcontroversal]

BAM, very deep and SPOT ON!!!

In remember in 1992 I was giving a devotional and I had read all the quotes about what Jesus was enduring on the night of his arrest, trial, beatings etc. and then cruicified.....and at that particular moment it all hit me like a ton of bricks....and I got choked up and began to weep because of what he went through for me......even now some 30 plus years later it breaks my heart

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don’t think your following me, lucifer, satan, devil, is the same name for the one fallen morning star, there’s nothing in those scripture that says his name was changed nothing at all but for some odd reason people want to believe the English word Lucifer was his original name before the casting out. probably because that idea has been around for a couple of hundred years, old habits are hard to break.

1. Isaiah wrote his prophecy around 700 BC. So helel or "O Shining One" has been in the Bible for over 2700 years, NOT a couple of hundred years. And the English word Lucifer is perfectly correct for Shining One. Furthermore Luciferian has already passed into the English language for over 400 years and everyone knows it is connected to Satan worship. Which means that all your objections are simply futile.

2. "Morning Star" is an INTERPRETATION but not a translation. "Son of the Dawn " is the literal rendering of בֶּן־ (ben-) שָׁ֑חַר (sha·char), which the KJV correctly translated as "son of the morning".

3. There is only ONE reference to Lucifer, but at least a dozen references to Satan in the OT. That is the name -- ha Satan -- which God assigned to him. And the reason for that is he became the Adversary of God and man (as I already explained).

4. When you talk about "old habits die hard" you are coming at this Scripture from a heterodox perspective, unwilling to accept a perfectly legitimate translation and theology.

Speaking on Isaiah 14 was the king of tyre satan?

Isaiah 14 has references to (a) the king of Babylon and (b) the Assyrian (the Antichrist). Ezekiel 28 speaks of the king of Tyre. All of these men have been or will be types of Satan, displaying his characteristics, and possibly were (or will be) Satan possessed. When you combine Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 you get a complete picture of how Lucifer, who was the anointed cherub, possibly the chiefest and most beautiful of God's angels, allowed his vanity, pride, and rebellion to transform him into the personification of evil.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Author: Elvis Welber
The Lord Creates Evil
Isaiah 45: 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

It is clearly noticeable in the text above that God is the creator of evil. The word evil comes from the Hebrew ra'râ'âh and applies both to moral evil and to calamities. Nothing that exists in the world came by chance, everything was determined and decreed by God to happen. The LORD has made all things for his own ends, even the wicked, for the day of evil. Proverbs 16: 4.
The Bible clearly shows several passages where God exercises active and sovereign control over ungodly deeds committed by men, let us look at some: 2 Samuel 12.11-12 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up evil out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives and I will give it to your neighbor, who will lie down with your wives before this sun.

12 For thou didst it in secret, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. We see here the punishment of God over David for the sin of murder and adultery that he had committed. A son of David would lie down to bed with his women. In verse 12 God says: I will do this thing. What this means? God would sovereignly control Absalom to do such a sinful act as a punishment upon David. The fact that God hardens the heart of the wicked to sin, does not mean that God is in favor of this attitude. God condemns all moral evil in His holy law. But the Bible is clear in showing that God is the one who creates and controls all evil. Evil exists because God has directly and actively decreed its existence. God sovereignly controls all creatures that there are so many just as ungodly.

Deuteronomy 2:30 And Sihon the king of Heshbon would not suffer us to pass through him, because the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and hardened his heart to give it into thine hand, as it is this day.
But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and will multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. Ex. 7: 3.

For what? What Israel sought did not reach him; but the elect overtook him, and the rest were hardened.

8 As it is written, God gave them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes not to see, and ears to hear, to this day. Romans 11: 7,8.

This is a very old question.
And the answer is God created the possibility of evil, to have the possibility of good.

Good and evil are always relative, and subjective. And this is the eternal problem which Lucifer fell for.
Morality has to have a fixed point outside of us, else we corrupt our morality because anything we desire
becomes our definition of good and anything that opposes this as evil.

The Lord knew in achieving His aim of having a people like Himself, He would allow a people in rebellion.
But He provided the possibility of both, and brings judgement on both, those who follow Him, salvation,
those who do not destruction.

Evil or rebellion exists only for the time to choice and division, where Gods people can come out of fallen
mankind and walk into eternity while the rest walk into judgement and destruction.

Within these contraints the Lord amplifies the consequences of rebellion and its fruit so that His grace and
love and truth might shine all the more clearly.

Evil in scripture is also used in terms of disaster and judgement. In the ultimate sense His people are safe
in Him so disaster can only come in this world.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The Lord Creates Evil

This is a profound statement of intent.
Scripture says the Lord created everything and it was good.

18 "And God saw that it was good."
Gen 1

3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!
4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
5 They have acted corruptly toward him; to their shame they are no longer his children, but a warped and crooked generation.
Deut 32

There is an eternal reality. To reject God is evil, it starts a chain of events that destroys everything one is
and everything the Lord has made.

In a sense by God creating something, its destruction or negation is evil, the opposite of that which God has
done. In this sense God could never create evil, because that is the opposite of His action.

Within Himself He cannot be unjust or untrue, He is the ultimate and absolute reference of everything.
It is this aspect of who He is He desired in Jesus to demonstrate. It is we who bring trouble on our own heads
and we who cause the seeds of our destruction, even though we appear good and right, have great aspirations
it is our passions and short cuts that undo all that we are.

We so easily mistake our achievements as significant, because we ignore the seeds we have sown as we build
that bring them all down to the ground.

 

[JamOn]

1. Isaiah wrote his prophecy around 700 BC. So helel or "O Shining One" has been in the Bible for over 2700 years, NOT a couple of hundred years. And the English word Lucifer is perfectly correct for Shining One. Furthermore Luciferian has already passed into the English language for over 400 years and everyone knows it is connected to Satan worship. Which means that all your objections are simply futile.

2. "Morning Star" is an INTERPRETATION but not a translation. "Son of the Dawn " is the literal rendering of בֶּן־ (ben-) שָׁ֑חַר (sha·char), which the KJV correctly translated as "son of the morning".

3. There is only ONE reference to Lucifer, but at least a dozen references to Satan in the OT. That is the name -- ha Satan -- which God assigned to him. And the reason for that is he became the Adversary of God and man (as I already explained).

4. When you talk about "old habits die hard" you are coming at this Scripture from a heterodox perspective, unwilling to accept a perfectly legitimate translation and theology.

Isaiah 14 has references to (a) the king of Babylon and (b) the Assyrian (the Antichrist). Ezekiel 28 speaks of the king of Tyre. All of these men have been or will be types of Satan, displaying his characteristics, and possibly were (or will be) Satan possessed. When you combine Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 you get a complete picture of how Lucifer, who was the anointed cherub, possibly the chiefest and most beautiful of God's angels, allowed his vanity, pride, and rebellion to transform him into the personification of evil.

The word first appeared in the Latin vulgate

1. Isaiah wrote his prophecy around 700 BC. So helel or "O Shining One" has been in the Bible for over 2700 years, NOT a couple of hundred years. And the English word Lucifer is perfectly correct for Shining One. Furthermore Luciferian has already passed into the English language for over 400 years and everyone knows it is connected to Satan worship. Which means that all your objections are simply futile.

2. "Morning Star" is an INTERPRETATION but not a translation. "Son of the Dawn " is the literal rendering of בֶּן־ (ben-) שָׁ֑חַר (sha·char), which the KJV correctly translated as "son of the morning".

3. There is only ONE reference to Lucifer, but at least a dozen references to Satan in the OT. That is the name -- ha Satan -- which God assigned to him. And the reason for that is he became the Adversary of God and man (as I already explained).

4. When you talk about "old habits die hard" you are coming at this Scripture from a heterodox perspective, unwilling to accept a perfectly legitimate translation and theology.

Isaiah 14 has references to (a) the king of Babylon and (b) the Assyrian (the Antichrist). Ezekiel 28 speaks of the king of Tyre. All of these men have been or will be types of Satan, displaying his characteristics, and possibly were (or will be) Satan possessed. When you combine Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 you get a complete picture of how Lucifer, who was the anointed cherub, possibly the chiefest and most beautiful of God's angels, allowed his vanity, pride, and rebellion to transform him into the personification of evil.

Well I guess we don’t agree, you say that the one use of the Latin word of st. Jerome 4th century by which most of what the translators of the KJV used is perfect proof the name change was changed by God.

You probably believe God authorized that bible as well don’t you?