What does this mean?
- Thread starter Robertt
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Those who are chosen by God are believers.
Those who are the elect of God, believe.
Men get upset over this. They think they choose God. But that's not how it works. God chooses us.
The biggest argument people have with this is that by God NOT choosing some then that causes them to not be believers. Therefore God is a bad God because He doesn't choose everyone.
Then the weirdest argument that I have seen is that God looks through time to see who would choose Him and then He chooses them before they had they chance to. Or because they would have anyway.
But that's not what the scripture says. The scripture says that those who are chosen by God are those that believe.
It seems pretty simple. But people like to complicate things.
Those who are the elect of God, believe.
Men get upset over this. They think they choose God. But that's not how it works. God chooses us.
The biggest argument people have with this is that by God NOT choosing some then that causes them to not be believers. Therefore God is a bad God because He doesn't choose everyone.
Then the weirdest argument that I have seen is that God looks through time to see who would choose Him and then He chooses them before they had they chance to. Or because they would have anyway.
But that's not what the scripture says. The scripture says that those who are chosen by God are those that believe.
It seems pretty simple. But people like to complicate things.
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It sounds that way and that is why Christians must examine ALL GOSPEL TRUTH to arrive at their doctrines. So here is the key (Rom 6:23)
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Are all human beings subject to sin and death? Absolutely
So is the GIFT of eternal life offered to all through Christ? Absolutely
So does God pick and choose who will receive and who will not receive eternal life? Absolutely not. He would be contradicting Himself.
Therefore in view of this and the entire Gospel of grace, we can safely conclude that all who believe will receive eternal life. Therefore they are ordained or appointed to receive eternal life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Are all human beings subject to sin and death? Absolutely
So is the GIFT of eternal life offered to all through Christ? Absolutely
So does God pick and choose who will receive and who will not receive eternal life? Absolutely not. He would be contradicting Himself.
Therefore in view of this and the entire Gospel of grace, we can safely conclude that all who believe will receive eternal life. Therefore they are ordained or appointed to receive eternal life.
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you add to ALL here ,, but ignore the other scriputure as it doesn't match your doctrine ..
no one argues about this part all who believe are saved, what the question is , where does belief come from. Faith is a gift of god , he gives it to those he Ordains and then we have a choose to either follow or walk our own way. wither to walk in the spirit or in the flesh, our free will.
no one argues about this part all who believe are saved, what the question is , where does belief come from. Faith is a gift of god , he gives it to those he Ordains and then we have a choose to either follow or walk our own way. wither to walk in the spirit or in the flesh, our free will.
i don't understand; why would it be a contradiction for the One who gives the gift to decide who He gives His gift to?
that may be *uncomfortable* to think about in some way, but it doesn't seem contradictory to me.
it would be more convincing to me if there was some explanation that wasn't 'Acts 13:48 means exactly the opposite of what it literally says'
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
(Romans 9:15-16)
i mean, it's a gift, not wages, right? so doesn't the giver have the right to give to whomever He pleases? vis-à-vis doesn't the Potter have rights over His own clay? or does the axe wield itself.. ? that may be *uncomfortable* to think about in some way, but it doesn't seem contradictory to me.
it would be more convincing to me if there was some explanation that wasn't 'Acts 13:48 means exactly the opposite of what it literally says'
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the standard explanation for John 10:26 is the same.
Jesus says of the Pharisees, they cannot believe because they are not His sheep.
the explanation people give is, they are not His sheep because they do not believe.
it is hard to swallow, so people wave their hands, declare the opposite of what it says, and say that's an explanation.
which is weird. it's like pretending a stoplight is green, because, well we really have to go so of course it is.
Jesus says of the Pharisees, they cannot believe because they are not His sheep.
the explanation people give is, they are not His sheep because they do not believe.
it is hard to swallow, so people wave their hands, declare the opposite of what it says, and say that's an explanation.
which is weird. it's like pretending a stoplight is green, because, well we really have to go so of course it is.
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Here's my two cents... but I'm not exactly a Greek scholar 
:
See the word-order here: "believed" is not what was "arranged," for one thing, as I see it.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/13-48.htm
[hover cursor over G5021's "tetagmenoi" and it says, "A prolonged form of a primary verb; to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. Assign or dispose"... translated in the other places as "set, ordained, addicted [selves to the ministry], submitted [selves], appointed, determined"]
The word says it is either "middle" or "passive"...but (just to note) the "were" verb accompanying it seems to show that "were" as being "active," so I don't know how (or whether) that would affect how one would determine if the G5021 word (also verb) is "middle" or "passive". We do know it's in the "perfect tense," so many folks (unable to see any other option) automatically assume it means "in the past, before time, God did this" [so, automatically the "passive" option], but my view is that if this word is in the "middle voice" (which seems to be a legit option), then the "perfect tense" would be showing the word to mean "disposed" (or, like, "were lined up") prior to this day being spoken of in v.48, meaning, the previous week's circumstances [attitudes] of them from the surrounding text [/context], particularly vv.42,44,46. Some have put it like this: "...and believed--those who positioned themselves [that would be the 'middle voice'] with reference to eternal life." (see also the "middle voice" used in 1Cor6:11 where the word "washed [G628]" IS in the "middle voice," and where the "middle voice" there means "I wash" [see that when you hover your cursor over the "628" on the left side: https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/6-11.htm ; meaning, you washed yourselves, or you allowed yourselves washed, or something along those lines]
In Romans 9, my understanding is that the comment in v.15 should be understood from the perspective grasping that Israel thought they were the only ones who were "IN" with God (and this, by means of simply being born into it); so this is saying, God will have mercy on others [i.e. the Gentiles] if He so chooses, who are you/they to say "only US!"?!; and then chpt 11:32 goes on to say, "For God hath concluded them all [Jew and Gentile alike!] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL [Jew and Gentile alike!]"
Again, just my two cents on the subject.
:See the word-order here: "believed" is not what was "arranged," for one thing, as I see it.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/13-48.htm
[hover cursor over G5021's "tetagmenoi" and it says, "A prolonged form of a primary verb; to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. Assign or dispose"... translated in the other places as "set, ordained, addicted [selves to the ministry], submitted [selves], appointed, determined"]
The word says it is either "middle" or "passive"...but (just to note) the "were" verb accompanying it seems to show that "were" as being "active," so I don't know how (or whether) that would affect how one would determine if the G5021 word (also verb) is "middle" or "passive". We do know it's in the "perfect tense," so many folks (unable to see any other option) automatically assume it means "in the past, before time, God did this" [so, automatically the "passive" option], but my view is that if this word is in the "middle voice" (which seems to be a legit option), then the "perfect tense" would be showing the word to mean "disposed" (or, like, "were lined up") prior to this day being spoken of in v.48, meaning, the previous week's circumstances [attitudes] of them from the surrounding text [/context], particularly vv.42,44,46. Some have put it like this: "...and believed--those who positioned themselves [that would be the 'middle voice'] with reference to eternal life." (see also the "middle voice" used in 1Cor6:11 where the word "washed [G628]" IS in the "middle voice," and where the "middle voice" there means "I wash" [see that when you hover your cursor over the "628" on the left side: https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/6-11.htm ; meaning, you washed yourselves, or you allowed yourselves washed, or something along those lines]
In Romans 9, my understanding is that the comment in v.15 should be understood from the perspective grasping that Israel thought they were the only ones who were "IN" with God (and this, by means of simply being born into it); so this is saying, God will have mercy on others [i.e. the Gentiles] if He so chooses, who are you/they to say "only US!"?!; and then chpt 11:32 goes on to say, "For God hath concluded them all [Jew and Gentile alike!] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL [Jew and Gentile alike!]"
Again, just my two cents on the subject.
I love this verse, because it puts all our efforts in their place, He is the one who calls, ordains and anoints.
We want all those we love to come to the knowledge of Jesus, yet it is Him alone who knows, and we can
rest in the fact from eternity to eternity, His elect will stand, Amen, Thank you Jesus.
Some think this is unjust, but rather the Lord gives all the opportunity possible to all, and those who can
will respond. The Lord time and again amplifies peoples chosen paths so the consequences and choices
can be seen and are real. Nothing is left alone, or just put to one side, everything will be obvious when
we meet Him.
The question that will make us wonder, is how on earth did we stand and walk with such a King, for we
are so weak and easily swayed, yet He stood and called, grew and healed us, Thank you Jesus.
We want all those we love to come to the knowledge of Jesus, yet it is Him alone who knows, and we can
rest in the fact from eternity to eternity, His elect will stand, Amen, Thank you Jesus.
Some think this is unjust, but rather the Lord gives all the opportunity possible to all, and those who can
will respond. The Lord time and again amplifies peoples chosen paths so the consequences and choices
can be seen and are real. Nothing is left alone, or just put to one side, everything will be obvious when
we meet Him.
The question that will make us wonder, is how on earth did we stand and walk with such a King, for we
are so weak and easily swayed, yet He stood and called, grew and healed us, Thank you Jesus.
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Well the scriptures say before the foundation of the world::
Ephesians 1: KJV
4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
So there was an eternity before the foundation of the world and there is an eternity after it.. So i guess the answer is God foreknew us when ever He Foreknow us.. Maybe He has foreknown us for an eternity? But it is probably impossible for our human minds to comprehend such a thing..
An eternity before we came into existence seems impossible to our human minds.. But with an Eternal God it must be so..
Ephesians 1: KJV
4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
So there was an eternity before the foundation of the world and there is an eternity after it.. So i guess the answer is God foreknew us when ever He Foreknow us.. Maybe He has foreknown us for an eternity? But it is probably impossible for our human minds to comprehend such a thing..
An eternity before we came into existence seems impossible to our human minds.. But with an Eternal God it must be so..
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Context is important... so much read in... those Gentiles were in assembly; they were not self-hardened atheists out in the streets.
“The best understanding of ‘tasso’ [appointed] in Acts 13:48 is that it refers to Gentiles who were ‘in position for eternal life’ — ‘ready for eternal life’ — or even ‘intent on obtaining eternal life’ (particularly in contrast to the Jews of the same episode who opposed Paul and rejected the gospel, and so who judged themselves unworthy of eternal life [Acts 13:46]), and that the most accurate translation of the phrase in question would be something like: ‘as many as were disposed to eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were aligned for eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were positioned for eternal life believed.‘” - Dr. Abasciano
“From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down.”
Acts 13:14 NIV
“Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!”
Acts 13:16 NIV
“From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.”
Acts 13:23 NIV
“Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.”
Acts 13:26 NIV
“Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.”
Acts 13:38-39 NIV
The Jews continued to harden their hearts, they saw [unworthy] Gentiles
“When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you [free will act] reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.”
Acts 13:45-46 NIV
“For this is what the Lord has commanded us: “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ””
Acts 13:47 NIV
“When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.”
Acts 13:48 NIV
“The best understanding of ‘tasso’ [appointed] in Acts 13:48 is that it refers to Gentiles who were ‘in position for eternal life’ — ‘ready for eternal life’ — or even ‘intent on obtaining eternal life’ (particularly in contrast to the Jews of the same episode who opposed Paul and rejected the gospel, and so who judged themselves unworthy of eternal life [Acts 13:46]), and that the most accurate translation of the phrase in question would be something like: ‘as many as were disposed to eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were aligned for eternal life believed’ or ‘as many as were positioned for eternal life believed.‘” - Dr. Abasciano
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“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.”
1 Timothy 2:3-6 NIV
1 Timothy 2:3-6 NIV
