Twinkling of an eye

[TheDivineWatermark]

Not everyone....note;....."those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ".

The word..... rapture..... is not in the text of the Bible. It is a word used by man to describe...being taken up....as stated in scriptures.

Right. The words in 1Cor15:52 are governed by the wording "WE" in v.51 (speaking only there of "the dead IN CHRIST" and the "WE [also 'IN CHRIST'] which are alive and remain unto")... meaning, this particular context speaks only of "the Church which is His body" (those "IN Christ") not all believers of all other time periods (and certainly not all persons, saved and unsaved, of all time).

That is what the "WE" speaks to, as well as the "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" (speaking here only of "the Church which is His body" [dead and living] at the time of our Rapture, which Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints.) Death is swallowed up in victory for the "WE" at the time of our Rapture (a truth pertaining SOLELY to "the Church which is His body"), of which this section is speaking in particular.

Following our Rapture, much more will transpire on the earth, including 2Th2:10-12 (involving PEOPLE and TIME), which will then lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (AFTER which, then 1Cor15:25-26 takes place at the GWTj [final carrying out of the sentence, in the lake of fire, for "the dead"])

 

[Ahwatukee]

The twinkle of a eye. just simply means at the last trump. thats when Christ returns. All who are alive on earth are changed to a different body. One that will last at least till they are judged either to eternity or the lake of fire at the end of the Lords day. The twinkle of the eye is the same as being caught up in the air. in 1st Thess 4. because its the same time frame .

The time being directly after the tribulation of Satan. so many have taken the mark. the dead of rev 20, are that way for the state of their soul is in serious question after having been effected by the mark of the beast. the deception.

I dont mention a rapture because that is not a biblical teaching from what i have studied.

Good day Gift1982,

The word "rapture" is from the Latin, having the same meaning as the Greek "harpazo" which is translated in 1 Thess.4:16 as "caught up." It is the same word used by Paul when he was "caught up" to the third heaven and the same word used of the male child in Rev.12 when they are caught up. So, though the word "rapture" is not found in the Greek, the word "harpazo" is and carries the meaning of "to seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively." Therefore, the scripture is stating that the Lord will descend from heaven with the dead resurrecting first and those who are still alive will be changed immortal and glorified and will be "caught up" with them in the clouds. This is in fact the detailed account of Jesus' promise in John 14:1-3 when He said that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for believers and that He would come back to get us to take us to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.

In addition, this event will take place prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Since Jesus already took upon Himself God's wrath, satisfying it completely, God's wrath no longer rests upon those in Christ. Not to mention the fact that Jesus said that he would keep believers "out of" the time of trail that is going to come upon the earth. If those in Christ were caught up at the same time as the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as you claim, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

It is important to understand that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events which take place at different times and having different purposes.

Once the Church has been gathered then the man of lawlessness will be revealed and God's wrath will begin. By the way, there is no such thing as the "tribulation of Satan." The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation throughout the entire last seven years which is all God's wrath, including the reign of the beast.

 

[dcontroversal]

The twinkle of a eye. just simply means at the last trump. thats when Christ returns. All who are alive on earth are changed to a different body. One that will last at least till they are judged either to eternity or the lake of fire at the end of the Lords day. The twinkle of the eye is the same as being caught up in the air. in 1st Thess 4. because its the same time frame .

The time being directly after the tribulation of Satan. so many have taken the mark. the dead of rev 20, are that way for the state of their soul is in serious question after having been effected by the mark of the beast. the deception.

I dont mention a rapture because that is not a biblical teaching from what i have studied.

Do you even study the bible......the resurrection/change is not for EVERYONE LIVING ON THE EARTH and it is OUR GLORIFIED STATE.....wow man...read 1st Cirinthians 15 and ger right in your understanding!!!!!

 

[Gift1982]

Do you even study the bible......the resurrection/change is not for EVERYONE LIVING ON THE EARTH and it is OUR GLORIFIED STATE.....wow man...read 1st Cirinthians 15 and ger right in your understanding!!!!!

you want to argue with everything that dont aline to your chruches doctrine. i dont care im not arguing with you but you seem to be very argumentative and yet dont know how to read .

the change is for everyone because how are they going to stand before God and be judged ??? Specially when the bible says flesh and blood cannot be in Gods presence. mature because you're ignorance is all on display yet you are in the habit of attacking people that actually are trying to learn the bible. bye.

 

[dcontroversal]

you want to argue with everything that dont aline to your chruches doctrine. i dont care im not arguing with you but you seem to be very argumentative and yet dont know how to read .

the change is for everyone because how are they going to stand before God and be judged ??? Specially when the bible says flesh and blood cannot be in Gods presence. mature because you're ignorance is all on display yet you are in the habit of attacking people that actually are trying to learn the bible. bye.

Listen pal.....the change is not for everyone......it is for the saved and saved alone.....and as long as you post poppycock and mistruths you will be engaged......and like last night...you do not know what you are talking about!!

 

[Gift1982]

Do you even study the bible......the resurrection/change is not for EVERYONE LIVING ON THE EARTH and it is OUR GLORIFIED STATE.....wow man...read 1st Cirinthians 15 and ger right in your understanding!!!!!

yea listen to you. not scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

yea listen to you. not scripture.

You are not listening to either...that is obvious to all that can read pal

 

[Gift1982]

You are not listening to either...that is obvious to all that can read pal

im not listening to a nut on the internet who is confused. you have been mislead by whoever. and now you are a loose cannon attacking Christians that are not as confused as you are. spreading your bad doctrines .

 

[dcontroversal]

im not listening to a nut on the internet who is confused. you have been mislead by whoever. and now you are a loose cannon attacking Christians that are not as confused as you are. spreading your bad doctrines .

hahaahhahhah you sure are full of yourself pal......and your interpretations are akin to a 5 year old attempting to explain a book on string theory.....

I suggest you find a compentent teacher of truth, chunk your preconceived ideas and open your eyes to the truth.......serious....not joking

 

[preston39]

Good day Gift1982,

The word "rapture" is from the Latin, having the same meaning as the Greek "harpazo" which is translated in 1 Thess.4:16 as "caught up." It is the same word used by Paul when he was "caught up" to the third heaven and the same word used of the male child in Rev.12 when they are caught up. So, though the word "rapture" is not found in the Greek, the word "harpazo" is and carries the meaning of "to seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively." Therefore, the scripture is stating that the Lord will descend from heaven with the dead resurrecting first and those who are still alive will be changed immortal and glorified and will be "caught up" with them in the clouds. This is in fact the detailed account of Jesus' promise in John 14:1-3 when He said that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for believers and that He would come back to get us to take us to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.

In addition, this event will take place prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Since Jesus already took upon Himself God's wrath, satisfying it completely, God's wrath no longer rests upon those in Christ. Not to mention the fact that Jesus said that he would keep believers "out of" the time of trail that is going to come upon the earth. If those in Christ were caught up at the same time as the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as you claim, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

It is important to understand that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events which take place at different times and having different purposes.

Once the Church has been gathered then the man of lawlessness will be revealed and God's wrath will begin. By the way, there is no such thing as the "tribulation of Satan." The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation throughout the entire last seven years which is all God's wrath, including the reign of the beast.

Those alive in Christ is the .....church (to be kept from the hour)...... spoken of by Christ.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

the change is for everyone because how are they going to stand before God and be judged ??? Specially when the bible says flesh and blood cannot be in Gods presence.

Acts 17:31 [not speaking of "a singular 24-hr 'day'"] -

" 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [/in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”


John 5:22 -

"For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son..."


John 12:48 -

"The one rejecting Me and not receiving My words has one judging him: The word which I spoke, that will judge him in the last day." [again, not "a singular 24-hr 'day'"--the one rejecting Him will not be present ('resurrected' for) to enjoy the MK age (as all saints of all times will be present for / to enjoy / 'resurrected' in time for)]



Rev20:5 says "[the rest of] the dead lived not again until..." and v.12 says "the dead" were judged... and v.13 says "the sea gave up the dead..." and "death and hell delivered up the dead...". I believe that. (i.e. "the resurrection OF DAMNATION/judgment")

 

[Wall]

Posted this question a while back. Got no answers to my question. Why do you Rapturist believe the LAST trumpet aint really the LAST trumpet?

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

scripture says that the “rapture” occurs as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. You cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15. In Matt.24 You find the LAST TRUMPET being blown and the gathering of Gods people {in the twinkling of an eye}

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

JOEL 2 [1] BLOW YE THE TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven

JOEL 2 [1] BLOW YE THE TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

Even just comparing these two verses ^ (with the understanding that there are different soundings for differing purposes), in view of the Numbers 10:1-10 passage I referred to earlier, one can see that the sounding for "gathering [/assembly/assembling H6950 6951]" is not the same as the sounding for "advance [to war / for warring / preparing for war H7321]"... see Numbers 10:7 - https://biblehub.com/text/numbers/10-7.htm "When convening the assembly [H6950 H6951], however, you shall blow without sounding an alarm [H7321]." [see also v.9 - https://biblehub.com/text/numbers/10-9.htm ] So, I had said (in view of the differing soundings for differing purposes), one should look FIRST to how Paul elsewhere uses the word "trump/trumpet" (in every place) before looking outside [of a particular writer's usages]…"

Matthew 24:29-31 / Isaiah 27:12-13 is after the tribulation of those days (and the Day of the Lord's ARRIVAL point in time came much earlier than this, back at the time of the Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 "beginning of birth PANGS [plural]," particularly at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" OF those [1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'"] which are parallel to the SEALS of Rev6, at the START of the tribulation period, not at its END (like Matt24:29-31 is showing to be, and where they are being gathered ["ONE by ONE," not "AS ONE" which our Rapture is (and 'IN THE AIR'), by contrast!] "to worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem")

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^

Numbers 10:1-10 -

The Two Silver Trumpets

1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 “Make two trumpets of hammered silver to be used for calling the congregation and for having the camps set out. 3 When both are sounded, the whole congregation is to assemble before you at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 4 But if only one is sounded, then the leaders, the heads [H7218] of the clans of Israel, are to gather before you.

5 When you sound short blasts, the camps that lie on the east side are to set out. 6 When you sound the short blasts a second time, the camps that lie on the south side are to set out. The blasts are to signal them to set out. 7 To convene the assembly, you are to sound long blasts, not short ones. 8 The sons of Aaron, the priests, are to sound the trumpets. This shall be a perpetual statute for you and the generations to come.

9 When you enter into battle in your land against an adversary who attacks you, sound short blasts on the trumpets, and you will be remembered before the LORD your God and delivered from your enemies. 10 And on your joyous occasions, your appointed feasts, and the beginning of each month, you are to blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will serve as a reminder for you before your God. I am the LORD your God.”

 

[Notes4God]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.

Matthew 8:11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Wall]

Matthew 8:11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

You do know the kingdom of heaven will be right here on Gods green earth. You know, the Lords prayer. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

In order to inherit the kingdom we must all be changed

MATTHEW 25 [31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: [32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. [34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

You can see that those who will inherit the kingdom will be here on Gods green earth right up until the time the sheep and the goats are divided. No one is raptured off to heaven 7 yrs before this takes place

PSALM 37 [27] Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.[28] For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.[29] The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.[30] The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.[31] THE LAW OF HIS GOD IS IN HIS HEART; none of his steps shall slide.[32] The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.[33] The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.[34] WAIT ON THE LORD, AND KEEP HIS WAY, AND HE SHALL EXALT THEE TO INHERIT THE LAND: WHEN THE WICKED ARE CUT OFF, THOU SHALT SEE IT.

We shall see the wicked cut off from the earth and then we shall inherit the land {the kingdom}. We will be waiting patiently right here on earth.

PROVERBS10 [25] AS THE WHIRLWIND PASSETH, SO IS THE WICKED NO MORE: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.[26] As vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to them that send him.[27] The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.[28] The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.[29] The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.[30] THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL NEVER BE REMOVED: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

The bad guys will not inhabit the earth. The righteous will never be removed from the earth?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

While I totally agree that "the kingdom of the heavens" (Matt8:11) refers to "on the earth" (commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19 and thereafter), and I agree that no "righteous" will be removed or taken from the earth at that point in time [/in the chronology], I do not believe that is the case with regard to "the Church which is His body" (at the point in time of our Rapture/departure, which is well-before His Second Coming to the earth, point-in-time of the chronology). This is why Paul speaks of it as "mystery" (<---for that is set in contrast to things which HAD already been well-disclosed [prophesied] in the OT, per Martha (and not to mention, Job) already well-understanding "resurrection" and the concept of "the Last Day" [not a 24-hr period of time]).

Also, the same word that is used in the Proverbs 10:30 verse (as the word "removed" in your post) is used in the following verse: "4 who despises the vile but honors those who fear the LORD, who does not revise a costly oath, 5 who lends his money without interest and refuses a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things will never be shaken. " <---"will never be shaken" (same word).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Compare this "shaken" idea, with 2Th2:2, "be not soon shaken in mind" and see the following, when you follow the link for that word, spelled out here (note the Ps15:5 reference, which is the verse I supplied also):

[from Bible Hub] "b. to shake down, overthrow, i. e. tropically, to cast down from one's (secure and happy) state, Acts 2:25 (from Psalm 15:8 [EDIT: I think they mean 15:5, coz there is no 15:8, lol] ()); by a tropical use foreign to secular authors, to move or agitate the mind, to disturb one:τινα ἀπό τοῦ νως, so as to throw him out of his sober and natural mental state (Buttmann, 322 (277)), 2 Thessalonians 2:2; τούς ὄχλους, to stir up, Acts 17:13."


This does not mean that Paul was not also talking about OUR Rapture/Departure ('IN THE AIR') in this context. He was.


EDIT to add:

Consider also (relative to my previous post):

"H7218 rosh / rā-šê " [chief, head, choicest, band, etc] here related to "H7225 reshith" used in Lev23:10 (see also some versions' translation of 2Th2:13 where the Grk word for "hath chosen [G138 - heilato / haireó]" is different from the usual ones used for "chose/chosen" [and this word likely is related to "G142 - airo" - "I raise, lift up, take away, remove"], and where the Grk word for "from the beginning [ap arches" may actually be "first fruit [aparches"... so related to Lev23:10-12, "chief, beginning [H7225]" word!... Consider the concept of the "24 elders" and Paul being told he will be given a crown "IN THAT DAY" )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

EDIT: to rearrange some of my words for better accuracy, and add missing bracketed ends (ran outta time to do the edit there):


EDIT to add:

Consider also (relative to my previous post):

"H7218 rosh / rā-šê " [chief, head, choicest, band, etc] here [in Numbers 10:4] related to "H7225 reshith" used in Lev23:10 (see also 2Th2:13 where the Grk word for "hath chosen [G138 - heilato / haireó]" is different from the usual ones used for "chose/chosen" [and this word likely is related to "G142 - airo" - "I raise, lift up, take away, remove"], and where in some versions the Grk word for "from the beginning [ap' arches]" may actually be "first fruit [aparches]"... so related to Lev23:10-12, "chief, beginning [H7225]" word!... Consider the concept of the "24 elders" and Paul being told he will be given a crown "IN THAT DAY" [this, showing at the START of the specific, limited future time period (Rev4-5), not at the end of it (Rev19)!])

 

[preston39]

Good day Gift1982,

The word "rapture" is from the Latin, having the same meaning as the Greek "harpazo" which is translated in 1 Thess.4:16 as "caught up." It is the same word used by Paul when he was "caught up" to the third heaven and the same word used of the male child in Rev.12 when they are caught up. So, though the word "rapture" is not found in the Greek, the word "harpazo" is and carries the meaning of "to seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively." Therefore, the scripture is stating that the Lord will descend from heaven with the dead resurrecting first and those who are still alive will be changed immortal and glorified and will be "caught up" with them in the clouds. This is in fact the detailed account of Jesus' promise in John 14:1-3 when He said that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for believers and that He would come back to get us to take us to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.

In addition, this event will take place prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Since Jesus already took upon Himself God's wrath, satisfying it completely, God's wrath no longer rests upon those in Christ. Not to mention the fact that Jesus said that he would keep believers "out of" the time of trail that is going to come upon the earth. If those in Christ were caught up at the same time as the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as you claim, it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer.

It is important to understand that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events which take place at different times and having different purposes.

Once the Church has been gathered then the man of lawlessness will be revealed and God's wrath will begin. By the way, there is no such thing as the "tribulation of Satan." The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation throughout the entire last seven years which is all God's wrath, including the reign of the beast.

What do you mean..."tribulation of Satan"?.