Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Galatians 5:4-6 ESV
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 ESV
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude 1:24-25 ESV
We don't HAVE to be set apart, we GET to be. I am in awe of His mercy.
Galatians 5:4-6 ESV
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 ESV
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude 1:24-25 ESV
We don't HAVE to be set apart, we GET to be. I am in awe of His mercy.
-
3
- Show all
I don't think any of the law keepers on this forum look to the law for justification. That is just the strawman argument presented by those that don't keep the law. We are all saved by grace. Once saved, what we do afterwards is where we differ. Paul was speaking of a movement among the Jews for new gentile converts to be circumcised in Galatians 4 & 5:
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
-
1
- Show all
Hay Dan_473,
No, not there with you on that.
After the Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit we must yield to the leading of the Holy Spirit. For me ut us certainly not all about the law, but the moral laws of God are part of that for me. For Justification? No! but as Paul said:
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Don't let this one trip you up.
Thanks Dan
No, not there with you on that.
After the Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit we must yield to the leading of the Holy Spirit. For me ut us certainly not all about the law, but the moral laws of God are part of that for me. For Justification? No! but as Paul said:
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Don't let this one trip you up.
Thanks Dan
Under the law
Means the same thing in every place it's used except for this one place?
It doesn't trip me up, I study the law for wisdom, but I don't see that I am required to keep it.
I'm not aware of anything in the scriptures that talks about just keep these parts of the law and set aside the others. Did I miss something? How, in your view, do you separate the moral laws from the rest?
Deuteronomy 12: 32. Whatever thing I command you, that you shall observe to do: you shall not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
I don't think any of the law keepers on this forum look to the law for justification. That is just the strawman argument presented by those that don't keep the law. We are all saved by grace. Once saved, what we do afterwards is where we differ. Paul was speaking of a movement among the Jews for new gentile converts to be circumcised in Galatians 4 & 5:
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
The conversation is about the law and its part in our sanctification. We stopped talking about the law and justification awhile ago.
While we are at it. Can you show how the moral law has a part in our sanctifiction or becoming christlike. Or living righteous lives?
I don't think any of the law keepers on this forum look to the law for justification. That is just the strawman argument presented by those that don't keep the law. We are all saved by grace. Once saved, what we do afterwards is where we differ. Paul was speaking of a movement among the Jews for new gentile converts to be circumcised in Galatians 4 & 5:
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
Gal. 5:1-4 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Nobody I know of believes the part bolded above. Some of us still believe in serving the law in the newness of spirit: Rom. 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
We should serve in newness of spirit. Not in the oldness of the letter (serving the law).
Why would we be delivered from the law in order to serve it in newness of spirit? Only someone who doesn't understand Rest and desires to be justified by their "service to the law" would say such a thing.
Its all lip service and then preaching the exact opposite of your statements.
We don't believe we are justified by the law. Yet we believe we must serve the law.
We don't believe we are saved by the law. Yet we still work at it.
We don't believe we are made righteous by the law. Yet those who don't work at the law are lawless and unrighteous.
Do you see the contradiction and silliness of the argument of the legalists and judaizers?
This isn't a straw man argument. This is the argument that comes up over and over. You make simple statements that all Christians and Scripture agree with and then you contradict all of it in your explanations and desire to work at the law.
So what is the difference between Gods Law and the 10 commandments?
They can't be the same right?
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
Its not the ministry of Death that God puts in the mind and heart, right?
They can't be the same right?
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
Its not the ministry of Death that God puts in the mind and heart, right?
It's always been about obedience. Christ paved the way for us to follow. He kept the law and claimed He will fulfill the law. Until all is fulfilled, not one jog or tittle shall pass from it. He is not done fulfilling yet.
Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Psalms 1:1,2 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Psalms 1:1,2 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
-
1
- Show all
John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which He hath testified of His Son.
John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
John 5:15 And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
How can a brother see a brother sin a sin if a brother is born of God and those born of God sinneth not?
John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
How can there be unrighteousness? What is unrighteousness?
John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
John 5:15 And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
How can a brother see a brother sin a sin if a brother is born of God and those born of God sinneth not?
John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
How can there be unrighteousness? What is unrighteousness?
John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
This question seeks clarification in the spirit of the original post.
I would like to know how many people on here have ever given thought to the facts behind the potential variances in the group that Paul was ministering to vs the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi occupying Judea at the time of Jesus' first advent.
There is a lot that is needed to back this up and it is all there, but in the interest of simply throwing the question out there here it is.
If God divorced the Kingdom of Israel/The Northern Kingdom or as Jesus referred to them; "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" then they were no longer under the law covenant. Does that sound correct?
Judah/Benjamin/Part of Levi/The southern Kingdom/Judah, however remained under the Law covenant with God when Jesus returned which included the Law. Does this sound correct?
If we are still on the same page then we have to consider Jesus's words:
Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
So, If Jesus was sent only for the tribes He previously divorced, there is a quandary!
Only those who study and know the law will be able to break this down. It has to do with redemption, reconciliation as well as the complexities of keeping the law for Judah-still under covenant and Israel-not under covenant.
Can anyone tell me what it is and how it brings light to all the confusion between Pauls ministry and Peters ministry, etc, etc?
I would like to know how many people on here have ever given thought to the facts behind the potential variances in the group that Paul was ministering to vs the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi occupying Judea at the time of Jesus' first advent.
There is a lot that is needed to back this up and it is all there, but in the interest of simply throwing the question out there here it is.
If God divorced the Kingdom of Israel/The Northern Kingdom or as Jesus referred to them; "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" then they were no longer under the law covenant. Does that sound correct?
Judah/Benjamin/Part of Levi/The southern Kingdom/Judah, however remained under the Law covenant with God when Jesus returned which included the Law. Does this sound correct?
If we are still on the same page then we have to consider Jesus's words:
Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
So, If Jesus was sent only for the tribes He previously divorced, there is a quandary!
Only those who study and know the law will be able to break this down. It has to do with redemption, reconciliation as well as the complexities of keeping the law for Judah-still under covenant and Israel-not under covenant.
Can anyone tell me what it is and how it brings light to all the confusion between Pauls ministry and Peters ministry, etc, etc?
E
It's always been about obedience. Christ paved the way for us to follow. He kept the law and claimed He will fulfill the law. Until all is fulfilled, not one jog or tittle shall pass from it. He is not done fulfilling yet.
Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Psalms 1:1,2 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Psalms 1:1,2 "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
I am talking about HOW we learn to be Christlike (obedient) please get with the program it gets old trying to explain this
E
Is it not Christlike to do the very things He did? The law can still teach us but it takes meditation. When, like in Psalms one, we meditate on why the law was introduced in the first place we begin to see its relevance today.
Nd one more time STOP assuming I am against obedience or against being like Christ, I will not warn you again
