Gods Word - for a certain type surely
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Where is the scripture for the angels being imprisoned here? I can not find it.
When we die we put on our celestial bodies and are Spiritual beings from that part on.
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The first time it really hit me was in Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
See thou do it not, I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren...Angels in heaven. Like the saints under the altar who were killed here on earth. fellowservants.
First let me say not only, to the best of my memory, have I never had a direct conversation with you, I also have never broached this subject matter.
I do not have a kneejerk reaction that your supposition is crazy and therefore to be scorned or dismissed out of hand. But let's take this slow and not overload with a ton of Scripture that appears to be stretched to support this.
I want to better understand your mindset.
1. Do you think we were part of the 1/3 Angels that fell with satan? I haven't read every Scripture you posted but without a doubt, the Jeremiah 4 passage, that has been on my back burner, is the most compelling. It seems to me that there was some race of pre Adamic beings. Your conjecture is that race was us as Angels?
2. Even IF the above is true, why does it mean that race was us? And if God wiped our memories, why would He leave clues that would tell us this truth?
3. If we were fallen Angels that God made into humans, WHO were the Angels that mated with us former Angels that are now humans, that are kept in chains in Tartarus described by Peter and Jude? Wouldn't they be fallen Angels like us?
Ok. That's enough to start with. Thanks for discussing this issue.
I have been accused of erroneous teaching and causing others to stumble. I take neither lightly.
God creates a heaven and a earth to be inhabited, He creates "Souls" (celestial) body to inhabit it
Every thing goes great till one day His most trusted best made guy stabs Him in the back and convinces through lies and deceipt that they would be happier following him that the one who created them.
THE choice. Kill it all or Plan two shut it down for a second regroup and start afresh.
that time ends. No one has been cast any where. there is darkness on the earth and then we begin again
(total supposition on my part here, this is where there is no longer a heaven and a earth but Heaven(s) and earth because there has to be "a habitation" for all the souls as they await their time to be born from above, born of water womb)
WAS
IS God lights up the world
6th day male and female all create as in all the ethnos-nations-races adam mankind
8th day The family history of one man the Bloodline of Christ, the Adamic race, the Story the Bible tell first eth ha adam the first man adam
God is giving each soul a flesh life to make a decision. He takes and places each soul into a flesh (terrestrial) body
Noahs time These are the angels who "left their habitation" (their will-not waiting for Gods) so not born from above, also not born of woman (water womb) and the reason for the flood. This is another of Satans attempts to stop the blood line of Christ.
I will stop. I am a horrible teacher I understand that. I have no concept of to much not enough but I am trying.
All souls are in heaven or on earth. Before in what ever "habitation God has set up" and after flesh life just as Richman and Lazarus on one side of the Gulf or the other.
The 1/3 of the Angels that sided with Satan will be cycled through the Kenite line just as those who sided with God will be Remnant and in the very last days the "elect". And I am sure of neither line as God sees fit.
If I didn't answer you question please ask again I am trying really hard to be brief
How I wish it wasn't all dependent upon each other. I think a summary first
God creates a heaven and a earth to be inhabited, He creates "Souls" (celestial) body to inhabit it
Every thing goes great till one day His most trusted best made guy stabs Him in the back and convinces through lies and deceipt that they would be happier following him that the one who created them.
THE choice. Kill it all or Plan two shut it down for a second regroup and start afresh.
that time ends. No one has been cast any where. there is darkness on the earth and then we begin again
(total supposition on my part here, this is where there is no longer a heaven and a earth but Heaven(s) and earth because there has to be "a habitation" for all the souls as they await their time to be born from above, born of water womb)
WAS
IS God lights up the world
6th day male and female all create as in all the ethnos-nations-races adam mankind
8th day The family history of one man the Bloodline of Christ, the Adamic race, the Story the Bible tell first eth ha adam the first man adam
God is giving each soul a flesh life to make a decision. He takes and places each soul into a flesh (terrestrial) body
Noahs time These are the angels who "left their habitation" (their will-not waiting for Gods) so not born from above, also not born of woman (water womb) and the reason for the flood. This is another of Satans attempts to stop the blood line of Christ.
I will stop. I am a horrible teacher I understand that. I have no concept of to much not enough but I am trying.
All souls are in heaven or on earth. Before in what ever "habitation God has set up" and after flesh life just as Richman and Lazarus on one side of the Gulf or the other.
The 1/3 of the Angels that sided with Satan will be cycled through the Kenite line just as those who sided with God will be Remnant and in the very last days the "elect". And I am sure of neither line as God sees fit.
If I didn't answer you question please ask again I am trying really hard to be brief
@DeighAnn
Jeremiah chapter 4 has nothing whatsoever to do with Genesis 1:2 nor any pre-adamic peoples
this chapter is primarily about the coming destruction and desolation of Judah (modern Israel) and Jerusalem > Armageddon
there is much more in common here with Ezekiel 38 and Joel 2 -
and there is a pretty good description of a world devastated by nuclear war with references to the coming day of the Lord
when mountains shall move and the Earth shall sway like a drunkard …
23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, and all the birds of the air had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 4:
2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness there is spread upon the mountains a great
and powerful people; their like has never been before, nor will be again after them through the years of all generations.
3 Fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them, but behind them a
desolate wilderness, and nothing escapes them.
10 The earth quakes before them; the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.
31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
Joel 2:
I accept that you can not at this time see this as anything but future, but the part of there being NO man, no birds, I have never found as relating to any future verse, if you find one please let me know. I did take Joel into consideration but NO man, and the tohu va bohu just sits like the perfect puzzle piece to the tohu. But I am sure you went and searched the original texts and word meanings before arriving at your conclusion. God knows we can't arrive at truth with a "translation" of His word. I can totally understand why God first off created the Hebrew and Greek and then used them for His letter to us. Just the different uses of the verbs with their moods and yada yada yada. Any way
Jeremiah 4 is the destruction and rendering the earth null and void at the end of the 1st age- when ALL the sons of God sang and stars shouted for joy, and Satan was the cherub that covers till iniquity was found in him and then he drew the 1/3......If you ever do decide to go back and read the verses you will see how there was society life amazingly like now,, You know, nothing new under the son.... I stop, Thank you for respectively looking it over. God Bless you
my two shillings worth is as follows
because one third of the angels trespassed and were cast down to Earth and imprisoned here, this loss will be replaced
by human beings who with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit are overcomers and withstand the wiles of such spiritual
wickedness >
our spiritual rebirth and faithfulness over all our tribulations and the deceitfulness of worldly desires has the
promise that we shall become transformed into glorious new spiritual beings and take the place of these lost angels.
I guess we as mere humans show up angels that were once in the presence of God and the glory of the Heavenly realms and
lost their standing and authority to be cast down to Earth.
The elect who are overcomers and even though we have not seen Heaven and the spiritual realm we believe and endure;
and so we shall be elevated to heavenly places and into eternal life to be forever with God.
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mark 12:25
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20:36
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Corinthians 6:3
It was revealed to them [OT prophets] that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
1Peter 1:12 - (which things the angels desire to look into. - KJV)
because one third of the angels trespassed and were cast down to Earth and imprisoned here, this loss will be replaced
by human beings who with the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit are overcomers and withstand the wiles of such spiritual
wickedness >
our spiritual rebirth and faithfulness over all our tribulations and the deceitfulness of worldly desires has the
promise that we shall become transformed into glorious new spiritual beings and take the place of these lost angels.
I guess we as mere humans show up angels that were once in the presence of God and the glory of the Heavenly realms and
lost their standing and authority to be cast down to Earth.
The elect who are overcomers and even though we have not seen Heaven and the spiritual realm we believe and endure;
and so we shall be elevated to heavenly places and into eternal life to be forever with God.
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Mark 12:25
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20:36
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Corinthians 6:3
It was revealed to them [OT prophets] that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
1Peter 1:12 - (which things the angels desire to look into. - KJV)
Do you think WE are the bad angels that went against God and we are the only ones that will have to be in the flesh?
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Psalm 33:7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: He layeth up the depth in storehouses.
Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psalm 33:9 For He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.
Psalm 33:10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: He maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Psalm 33:13 The LORD looketh from heaven; He beholdeth all the sons of men.
Psalm 33:14 From the place of his habitation He looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
Psalm 33:7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: He layeth up the depth in storehouses.
Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psalm 33:9 For He spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.
Psalm 33:10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: He maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Psalm 33:13 The LORD looketh from heaven; He beholdeth all the sons of men.
Psalm 33:14 From the place of his habitation He looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
NO - we are human beings created to inhabit the earth.
The Earth is a garden which grows all manner of plants some good, some weeds ... wheat and tares shall be harvested.
God has a plan and a purpose for his creation and us human beings. Which we really do not understand fully.
But I truly believe that because angels that were in Heaven could fall away then mere mortals who have not lived in the
Heavenly realms shall put on immortality and rule and reign with Jesus as an example to all the angels.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psalm 8:
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them,
and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,
Revelation 21:
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
foundation
Themelios-never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth to found, foundation
Katabole - casting down, overthrow
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
not laying again = not casting down. as in the foundation already laid, of repentance&c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left--and progress made unto the perfection
Katabole Noun matt 13.35 25.35 Luke 11l50 John 17.24 Eph 1.4 Heb 4.3 9.26 11.11 1 Pet 1 20 Rev 13.8 17.8
kataballo Verb - 2 Cor 4.9 Heb 6.1 Rev 12.10
Noun cognate with Verb - disruption or ruin
all but Heb 11.11 connected with "world" so should be "disruption or ruin" of the world condition of world in Gen 1.2 described above 2 Pet
The world was not created tohu (Isa 45.18) but became as in the Hebrew of Gen 1.2 and confirmed in 2 Pet 3.6 "the world that then was by the word of God perished, and the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word were created and are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment which shall usher in the new heavens and the new earth of 2 Pet 3.13
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
New Testament fact recorded Gen 1.2 earth became tohu and bohu and darkness was on the face of the deep before the creation of the heavens and the earth which are now
2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
foundation
Themelios-never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth to found, foundation
Katabole - casting down, overthrow
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
not laying again = not casting down. as in the foundation already laid, of repentance&c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left--and progress made unto the perfection
Katabole Noun matt 13.35 25.35 Luke 11l50 John 17.24 Eph 1.4 Heb 4.3 9.26 11.11 1 Pet 1 20 Rev 13.8 17.8
kataballo Verb - 2 Cor 4.9 Heb 6.1 Rev 12.10
Noun cognate with Verb - disruption or ruin
all but Heb 11.11 connected with "world" so should be "disruption or ruin" of the world condition of world in Gen 1.2 described above 2 Pet
The world was not created tohu (Isa 45.18) but became as in the Hebrew of Gen 1.2 and confirmed in 2 Pet 3.6 "the world that then was by the word of God perished, and the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word were created and are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment which shall usher in the new heavens and the new earth of 2 Pet 3.13
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
New Testament fact recorded Gen 1.2 earth became tohu and bohu and darkness was on the face of the deep before the creation of the heavens and the earth which are now
OK. I've given some thought to IMO, 2 of the most compelling arguments that there were some type of pre-Adamic beings that inhabited the Earth. Those 2 being that God told Adam to "replenish" the Earth, and the passage in Jeremiah 4.
1. The word "replenish" which we understand to mean RE-fill something that is used up or gone, in Genesis 1:28, after looking at several concordances seems to BETTER mean FILL, or make full.
2. In the Jeremiah passage I think the Earth would have been without form and void, decimated cities, no people,mountain and hills moving and trembling, birds fleeing from the heavens, a fruitless wilderness of land, ALL occuring during, and just after Noah's Flood.
I think those 2 renderings are a far easier bridge to cross than the idea that there was a pre Adamic race, and certainly that WE WERE that pre Adamic race of Angels. Do you have anything that hints that WE WERE ANGELS?
But I would be interested in other Biblical proofs GIVEN ONE OR TWO AT A TIME to examine.
Noahs Flood. at least 8 souls Katabole No man
still sunlight heavens, and they had no light.
earth still had form without form
terrestrial celestial
Was, is, is to come Celestial Terestrial Celestial
When we die in the flesh, we are angels, right? Think of babies that die? Angels to good for this world. REALITY, not just a nice thought.
Best and easiest way to get there is prayer and meditating on the Word.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
I will go searching for what I can find. Just ponder. From when ever Satan was good up until now no one has been sentenced to death except the son of perdition (to perish) Satan, and he is still alive, not the angles who are reserved in chains.
So if no one has died, When was it "all sons sang together". We know it hasn't been in the last 8000 yrs. People been coming and going to heaven.
God, OUR FATHER, that is how HE looks at our relationship with HIM. He doesn't want any to persish now. Why would he have wanted any one to perish then? He tells us himself my children are "sottish"-stupid foolish. He is long suffering.
Our Spirit goes back to the one who gave it.
NOTES only. Angels food in the Wilderness. The angels who have come to earth look just like us. John in 3rd heaven with fellowservant, looks just like us. Jesus transfigured. Multiple times sons mentioned during creation process of earth. How can be there when earth created to be inhabited and then show up when it is done. Why have different sets when you can have one set just in different bodies. Why kill off until everyone has had a chance. Could you kill your kids cause they were bad without giving a second chance. God repented of putting man in the flesh. Let us make man in our image, Only Jesus looked like God so we must be in our own image.
You may or may not be correct. Same as me. But we will find out together, I promise. I am not trying to convince you. I am having a conversation with someone else and writing my responses here. I am really sorry if you thought I was following up with you again and again. I understand where you are coming from. No, No these are not for you. Once again I am sorry. Don't read them anymore I am really happy you read them once. That is all anyone should ask for. Shoot more than.
Watch the video by Michael Heiser - he extensively gives solid Bible study in respect to the fallen angels that descended
upon Mount Hermon (where Jesus later travelled to for the transfiguration) and how the plan of salvation has much to do
with redeeming the world from spiritual wickedness.
upon Mount Hermon (where Jesus later travelled to for the transfiguration) and how the plan of salvation has much to do
with redeeming the world from spiritual wickedness.
I find that is not a good idea for some reason when I "watch" later on down the road, I can't separate what I got from the bible and what I got from someone I watched so I don't do that that way I am sure what I have is from the Word. Learned this young Thank God. Haven't tested it since, not worth the risk. But thank you for the thought. I love research. I have no problem with 6, 8, 10, up to 14 hr days just in translating words, finding all the spots they are listed to see how they all interact in different situations, that fanatical kid of stuff. But thank you very much anyhow. Best of luck on your journey.....
GEN. 2:7.
And The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.
we don't know of any scripture that states that we existed 'before' GEN.2:7.
JER. 1:5.
Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you,
and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.
we are not aware of any scriptures that point out any prior existence of 'man', before GEN. 2:7.
but, we both are always open to hear and try and understand everyone's views on the Scriptures...
And The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.
we don't know of any scripture that states that we existed 'before' GEN.2:7.
JER. 1:5.
Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you,
and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.
we are not aware of any scriptures that point out any prior existence of 'man', before GEN. 2:7.
but, we both are always open to hear and try and understand everyone's views on the Scriptures...