Would my servants fight?

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Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#21
May 23, 2016
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#21
Hazelelponi said:
As Scripture says; "For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under Heaven." See Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 for the full scripture..

When we are led by the Spirit, I believe we will know what is right for us to do, in that moment.
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That Scripture in Ecclesiastes 3 is about Solomon"s frustration with finding meaning in the world:

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: 2a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, 3a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, 4a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, 5a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, 6a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, 7a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, 8a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

The world and what happens in the world just goes on and on and no one can stop it! People are born, people die, there is weeping, and there is laughing, etc. etc. Solomon goes on to say that all that is under the sun is vanity: only when God (who is Love) steps in is there meaning.

To use Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 as justification for doing these actions misses what Solomon was writing about.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#22
Dec 15, 2018
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#22
When Jesus was arrested, were all twelve disciples with him? Interesting that it was only two swords.
When he prayed to keep them from the temptation, what exactly was the temptation?
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#23
Dec 15, 2018
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#23
Chester said:
That Scripture in Ecclesiastes 3 is about Solomon"s frustration with finding meaning in the world:

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: 2a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, 3a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, 4a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, 5a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, 6a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, 7a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, 8a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

The world and what happens in the world just goes on and on and no one can stop it! People are born, people die, there is weeping, and there is laughing, etc. etc. Solomon goes on to say that all that is under the sun is vanity: only when God (who is Love) steps in is there meaning.

To use Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 as justification for doing these actions misses what Solomon was writing about.
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Yea seems strange that people keep quoting eccelesiastes too. Why do they do that? Its not anything to do with the topic. Dont they understand what the Preacher was saying. Vanity all is vanity.
There is nothing new under the sun. He was talking about the world, but Jesus Kingdom is not of this world...It seems to me some people unable to discern the difference.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#24
Jul 18, 2017
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#24
Lanolin said:
Am a bit puzzled about this, what was Jesus meaning. He tells his disciples to take swords but then tells them to put them away. Why did he say this? Was he endorsing violence or use of weapons or what. Or was he saying, you take these weapons and can have them but just dont use them to fight.
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What Jesus was saying is that there is a time and a place for everything.

Since His plan from eternity was to die on the cross, He would not allow anyone to prevent that or protect Him (with their swords or any other weapons). Had He chosen to do so, He could have summoned a host of angels to protect Him.

At the same time, the apostles would be traveling all over the world on their missionary journeys, and they would need to protect themselves from bandits and other unsavory individuals. The use of their swords at that time for self-defense would be quite appropriate. While we do not read of any such incidents, that would have been the idea.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#25
Jul 18, 2017
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#25
Lanolin said:
Yea seems strange that people keep quoting eccelesiastes too. Why do they do that? Its not anything to do with the topic. Dont they understand what the Preacher was saying. Vanity all is vanity.
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What the Preacher was saying regarding vanity is that the things on this earth are temporary and it would be foolish to treat them as anything else. "A time for war and a time for peace is quite appropriate in this context". As the Lamb of God, Christ would not open His mouth in protest. But when He comes the second time as a Lion, He comes to make war and destroy His enemies (Rev 19)
There is nothing new under the sun. He was talking about the world, but Jesus Kingdom is not of this world...It seems to me some people unable to discern the difference.
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It seems that you are unable to discern that there would be a time when the Kingdom of Christ would not be established on earth, and then there would be a time when there would be a literal, physical, visible Kingdom of God on earth. Again, there is a time and a season for everything.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#26
Dec 15, 2018
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#26
Nehemiah6 said:
What the Preacher was saying regarding vanity is that the things on this earth are temporary and it would be foolish to treat them as anything else. "A time for war and a time for peace is quite appropriate in this context". As the Lamb of God, Christ would not open His mouth in protest. But when He comes the second time as a Lion, He comes to make war and destroy His enemies (Rev 19)

It seems that you are unable to discern that there would be a time when the Kingdom of Christ would not be established on earth, and then there would be a time when there would be a literal, physical, visible Kingdom of God on earth. Again, there is a time and a season for everything.
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That is when He returns, but as far as I know in book of Acts, after they got filled with the Holy Spirit none of the disciples went round bearing swords and fighting. Instead, they were thrown in jail and many were killed by Pharisees. JAmes head got cut off! stephen was stoned. None of them went round forming an army. They went round healing the sick and preaching the good news.

Bit hard to preach the Good News with a sword or gun in your hand! Lol
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#27
Dec 15, 2018
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#27
Even the salvation army dont go round bearing carnal weapons.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#28
Dec 12, 2013
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#28
Sipsey said:
I suppose if one could dismiss most of the OT accounts of God’s commands to vanquish several races of people by sword, bow and spear, and discount Abraham and his small army actually going to battle and then have the nerve to give the “spoils” of his battle to a priest named Melchizedek, I suppose one could through much effort say God wants us Christians to always turn our cheeks.

But we would also have to do away with much of the NT prophecy about the battles to come.

When one realizes that Jesus and all the Apostles taught the Love and grace of God entirely from the OT, but then dismiss the rest, they throw reason out the window. God gave laws as to when killing was justified and when it was not. We would all do well to heed “the whole council” of God’s word, and not simply the doctrines that appeal to some.
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Amen.....there is a time to kill <--not the same as murder!!!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#29
#29
Lanolin said:
Even the salvation army dont go round bearing carnal weapons.
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sure they do

they hit people over the head with their band trombones

I mean seriously? the salvation army?

girl you are lost in a supermarket
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#30
Dec 12, 2013
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#30
7seasrekeyed said:
sure they do

they hit people over the head with their band trombones

I mean seriously? the salvation army?

girl you are lost in a supermarket
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Many believe the salvation army represents one aspect the Lord's Churches.......I heard one guy say....We are the church.....yeah sure!!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#31
#31
dcontroversal said:
Many believe the salvation army represents one aspect the Lord's Churches.......I heard one guy say....We are the church.....yeah sure!!
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if I am not mistaken. they are not living up to the standards set by their founder

they do like their brass bands though
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#33
Dec 17, 2017
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#33
Hazelelponi said:
God doesn't have a tongue..

The double edged sword shown symbolically in Jesus's mouth Book of Revelation is the Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12

"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

Of course, this Word is not only written scripture, it's also that thing by which all men will be judged, Jesus Christ Himself:


Romans 10:9-10

"because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

He is the dividing line, as He says, He has not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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Hello Hazelelponi, welcome to Christian Chat. I hope you'll enjoy your stay here. You seem pretty balanced in you views for your first two posts. I think you will fit in here well.

glittering-welcome-smiley-emoticon.gif

Many misunderstand Christ's admonition about turning the other cheek:

Matt. 5:39 "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

This is not just letting someone slap you around. This is addressing an act to start a duel. He was talking about not getting even and seeking our own way. The very next verse says if he wants you coat, give him your robe also.

Self defense is a common sense proposition and anyone not allowing for it is not being realistic. It even says the two witnesses will kill those wishing to do them harm. By a miracle will they kill. They are only allowed to speak to kill. I have thought this out and I think they will say something like: that rifle you are aiming at me will blow up in your face. Then an angel will stick his finger into the barrel of the rifle. The rifle bolt will blow back and take the shooter out. Something like that. :cool:
 
Leastamongmany

Leastamongmany

Well-known member
#35
Jun 2, 2019
3,270
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Usa
#35
Hazelelponi said:
As Scripture says; "For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under Heaven." See Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 for the full scripture..

When we are led by the Spirit, I believe we will know what is right for us to do, in that moment.
Click to expand...
Welcome and Blessings! 🙏🙏🙏
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#36
#36
dcontroversal said:
Just another organizaton started by men.....and NOT one aspect of the Lord's church"es"
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idea


I looked them up to know what I was talking about...even though my 1st post was just a humorous response to the silly goings on here being touted as information

they started in England and the idea was to provide physical relief to those who needed it...food, shelter etc. also stores with 'used' goods in good shape with low prices. apparently these ideas have really caught on. and then of course salvation as well. for some reason the founder decided to dole out military names to members hence the army connotation

that's the reader's digest version.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#37
#37
7seasrekeyed said:
idea


I looked them up to know what I was talking about...even though my 1st post was just a humorous response to the silly goings on here being touted as information

they started in England and the idea was to provide physical relief to those who needed it...food, shelter etc. also stores with 'used' goods in good shape with low prices. apparently these ideas have really caught on. and then of course salvation as well. for some reason the founder decided to dole out military names to members hence the army connotation

that's the reader's digest version.
Click to expand...

no idea what the idea is doing there
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#38
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#38
7seasrekeyed said:
idea


I looked them up to know what I was talking about...even though my 1st post was just a humorous response to the silly goings on here being touted as information

they started in England and the idea was to provide physical relief to those who needed it...food, shelter etc. also stores with 'used' goods in good shape with low prices. apparently these ideas have really caught on. and then of course salvation as well. for some reason the founder decided to dole out military names to members hence the army connotation

that's the reader's digest version.
Click to expand...

They (the Salvation Army) are a real presence in the large inner cities. They operate temporary residence shelters for some to get aid and a hand on finding homes. They usually have an inside/outside the shelter feeding program at least once a day. :cool:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#39
#39
Deade said:
They (the Salvation Army) are a real presence in the large inner cities. They operate temporary residence shelters for some to get aid and a hand on finding homes. They usually have an inside/outside the shelter feeding program at least once a day. :cool:
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right

I did read quite a bit more about them, but basically that seems to be their focus along with salvation

one thing I found though that is somewhat disturbing, is that they do not take communion and do not practice baptism

anybody know if that is so?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#40
#40
Deade said:
They (the Salvation Army) are a real presence in the large inner cities. They operate temporary residence shelters for some to get aid and a hand on finding homes. They usually have an inside/outside the shelter feeding program at least once a day. :cool:
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I am well acquainted with the Sally Ann worked for them for two years many moons ago.... they do good inner city work, they began as a movement in England but then became more institutionalized over the years.

They have many cult like features/rules that have diminished over the years due to their dropping numbers.
Personally I would say stay away.
 
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