Can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior before we have the Spirit of Christ in us.

oldethennew · Jul 23, 2019

ROM. 8:9.
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not The Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

nuts and bolts - but, you can be hearing The Word and being drawn to 'repentance',
and God can be revealing Himself to us, in many ways, but, The Holy Spirit is the guarantee
of our 'inheritance and the 'proof' that we 'belong' to Jesus Christ...

Pisteuo · Jul 23, 2019

oldethennew said:

ROM. 8:9.
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not The Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

nuts and bolts - but, you can be hearing The Word and being drawn to 'repentance',
and God can be revealing Himself to us, in many ways, but, The Holy Spirit is the guarantee
of our 'inheritance and the 'proof' that we 'belong' to Jesus Christ...

Agreed!

Have you ever done any research on Rom. 10:17?

garee · Jul 23, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior before we have the Spirit of Christ in us? We can claim Christ as our Lord and savior because (cause and effect) we have the Spirit of Christ in us. According to the law.... If any has not the Spirit of Christ then they do not belong to Him.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 23, 2019

In answer to your request, consider the following, I've posted before (ignore the middle section, as it pertained to the topic of the different thread where I'd first posted this)...

Hebrews 9:8-9 says (in part):

"8 By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle still having a standing [stasin - G4714 (stasis--' from the base of histemi' and related to the words 'apo stasia' [a standing away (from a previous standing)])], 9 which is a symbol ['parable'] for the present time, [...]"

(see also vv.11-12,14,15,23,24,25-28; 10:1-10, esp v.2, vv.12-23; and then also how the "By this" of verse 1 referring back to 7:24-28 among other verses referred back to [by v.8:1] "HE EVER LIVETH TO")

meaning, a parable for the present time.

And the context referring to the "tabernacle" (like Hebrews chpts 3-4 were talking about; see Heb3:2,4).

And compare this with what Paul says in 2Cor5 ['tabernacle'] (especially in v.4 about "so that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE" when we will be "CLOTHED UPON" [<--THIS part referring to what will be occurring at our Rapture, for those of us who are the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" ['THIS mortal' must put on immortality] before we are "caught up together [AS ONE] with the DEAD IN Christ ['THIS corruptible' must put on incorruption] who shall "rise first" just before "our Rapture" [together AS ONE])

[and]

Wm Kelly on Hebrews 9:8-9 (top paragraph ^) -

"for the tabernacle in the wilderness is before the writer, not the temple: so we saw in Heb. 3, 4, and so it is here and throughout. This is evident in the early verses of the chapter, summed up in "these things having been thus formed" or prepared, not only the tabernacle but its furniture; which differed in some essential respects from the temple, for it [the temple] was the figure of the millennial kingdom and rest, as the tabernacle is of the resources of grace in Christ for the wilderness and its pilgrimage [i.e. "the Church which is His body" in this present age]. Hence the ark when set in the temple had neither the golden pot with manna therein nor Aaron's rod that budded (2 Chronicles 5:10), which we find carefully named in verse 4. With such wisdom markedly divine was the scripture inspired in the O.T. as in the N.T."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 9

[end quoting; source: Bible Hub; bold and underline mine; bracketed comments mine]

Did I already talk with you about this, before? I can't recall...

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 23, 2019

In Hebrews 7:25, the word for "to intercede" [ever liveth to], is:

G1793 -

1793 entygxánō (from 1722 /en, "in," which intensifies 5177 /tygxánō, "to obtain by hitting the mark") – properly, "light upon (meet with), obtain" (LS); "to go and meet a person to converse, consult," i.e. to intervene ("intersect with").

[J. Thayer documents how this meaning is consistently the same in ancient Greek writers.

The root of 5177 (tygxánō) means "to strike, hit the bulls-eye" ("spot on"). Accordingly, it is used in classical Greek as the antonym of harmartia ("to miss the mark, sin"), so Lucian, Xenophon, Homer, etc. (see Thayer, 5177 /tygxánō).]

[end quoting; source: BibleHub, bold and underline mine]

Pisteuo · Jul 23, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

In Hebrews 7:25, the word for "to intercede" [ever liveth to], is:

G1793 -

1793 entygxánō (from 1722 /en, "in," which intensifies 5177 /tygxánō, "to obtain by hitting the mark") – properly, "light upon (meet with), obtain" (LS); "to go and meet a person to converse, consult," i.e. to intervene ("intersect with").

[J. Thayer documents how this meaning is consistently the same in ancient Greek writers.

The root of 5177 (tygxánō) means "to strike, hit the bulls-eye" ("spot on"). Accordingly, it is used in classical Greek as the antonym of harmartia ("to miss the mark, sin"), so Lucian, Xenophon, Homer, etc. (see Thayer, 5177 /tygxánō).]

[end quoting; source: BibleHub, bold and underline mine]

I don't think we were having a discussion about this. Must be someone else.

seed_time_harvest · Jul 23, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Repent.
No one can come to JESUS unless the FATHER who sent JESUS draw them meaning your repentance has got to be TRUE Inside and not just words that the preacher said repeat after me or words to Impress a girl you like or saying words just to Impress your parents so you can tell them I got saved.

Maybe you meant what makes a person want to repent?

Pisteuo · Jul 23, 2019

seed_time_harvest said:

Yes, it all starts with the drawing or calling by the Father to Christ.

This is what the Greek says, and is very specific.

The Father calls a small group out from among a larger group of those who are not called. That may hard for people to accept, but that's the truth.

Repentance, is simply a mental turning from our way to the way of the caller. Repentance isn't an act of Faith (pisteuo), it's just responding, turning towards the caller.

God calls us in different ways, but true repentance is a response to the caller. After that God awaits the first act of Faithing, or the first surrendered life.

The Spirit of Christ won't be given for repentance or turning to the caller. Not after the initial surrendered life.

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 23, 2019

"in whom you also, having heard [aorist participle active] the word of truth, the gospel your of salvation, in whom also having believed [G4100 - pisteusantes ; aorist participle active] you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13

You don't think this relates?

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 23, 2019

^ EDIT to add: [by the way "[G4100 - believe/believed" is always "active" (when "G4100" is "intransitive")… I think I've got that right

(even if you did it in the past

lol--"having believed")]

bluto · Jul 23, 2019

Pisteuo said:

Your understanding of Romans 8:9 is in error and flawed. In fact, you have the verse "butt" backwards. The Apostle Paul just stated, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit." which means they are already saved. Paul then goes on to say, "IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

The carnal mind is an enemy to God and is in rebellion against the law of God. The Law could not meet our need. In itself the Law was good, but man, being carnal, was without power to obey it. We have died to the first Adam to be united to the last Adam, i.e Jesus Christ. Becasue of the union we have with Jesus Christ a new power, the Holy Spirit enters our human nature to subdue sin.

When our life is in Christ, He inspires new desires and new affections. This is also why Romans 8:10 says, "Amd of Christ is in you, though the body is dead becasue of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness." We do not grow "INTO" sanctification, but we grow "IN" sanctification. It's a life long process. In short, since the Spirit of God is in us, we are enabled to live above the desires of the flesh; if we do not have the Spirit of Christ we do not belong to God. PS: Do you consider yourself a trinitarian pisteuo?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

garee · Jul 23, 2019

I-Am-Murica said:

All mankind gets what they deserve coming from a body of death ? Or believer deserve that given to them the agreement. . . the pennies worth. The same gift eternal life. Some in false pride put their worth into it. . the murmurers .

But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Mathew 20: 13;15

The reward is the same

Pisteuo · Jul 23, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

The words the English language should have had for the translators are corresponding verbs, faithe, faither, and faithing.

Believing is the corresponding verb to the noun Belief, not the noun Faith.

Karraster · Jul 23, 2019

bluto said:

Isn't that a subject we are not supposed to discuss? There's so many I can't keep them straight. (taboo subjects that is)

TheDivineWatermark · Jul 24, 2019

Re: Post #93... so what are you seeing a problem with in the verse I supplied (if you are):

In Ephesians 1:13 -

G4100 [verb] - "πιστεύω - pisteuó/ pisteusantes"

"Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with."

"1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;"

Ephesians 1:13 V-APA-NMP
GRK: ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ
NAS: having also believed, you were sealed
KJV: also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with
INT: whom also having believed you were sealed with the

"in whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel your of salvation, in whom also having believed [G4100] you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise"

bluto · Jul 24, 2019

Karraster said:

Why is that a subject we are not to discuss? I haven't heard about it. I mean it's taught in the Bible so what's the problem? I do know that pesteuo here has me on ignore (I think) because he has not addressed numerous post to him. It seems to me that since these are discussion forums and one is challenged why would they "hide" out in the sphere of "ignore?"

The Apostle Peter said the following. "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, ALWAYS READY to make a defense to EVERYONE who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, with gentleness and reverence." I rest my case.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Karraster · Jul 24, 2019

bluto said:

I recall it being one of the subjects people get in trouble for. I think it was one of your threads, you don't remember?

To ignore, or not to ignore,
that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd!”

― William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Karraster · Jul 24, 2019

I'm sorry, that was very silly of me. Guess I worked too long out in the sun today.

pottersclay · Jul 24, 2019

Pisteuo said:

In revelation it says "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Regardless of what they believed.

Jesus said "I have not come to condemn but to save" so he was and is a savior.

When that truth hits your heart and opens your eyes hopefully you answer the door .
By no means can it be a illegitimate claim these are his titles.

Pisteuo · Jul 24, 2019

pottersclay said:

So Rom. 8:9 is incorrect?

We don't have to be in Him , and the Spirit of Christ doesn't have to be in us for Him to be ours?

It's not an illegitimate because of His titles?

Can we claim Christ as our Lord and savior before we have the Spirit of Christ in us.

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