Eternal torment VS Annihilation
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hi Tourist,
Actually, the scripture states that there will be "a weeping and gnashing of teeth." However, it says nothing about "until they are they are no more." That would be adding to the scripture.
All scripture as a whole regarding the fate of the wicked, uses the words, "everlasting, eternal, forever and ever and no rest day of night." It makes me wonder what else God would have to have put into His word to get the point of never ending, on-going punishment? Because I see that many people are not believing what is written.
It is the same with many other Biblical topics. For example, scripture declares that when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, that Satan is going to be cast into the Abyss and restricted there for a thousand years, with "a thousand years" mentioned six times. Yet people don't believe that it is a literal binding in a literal Abyss, nor do they believe in a literal thousand years. Now, for people to read it and not believe it, that's true deception. They do the same thing with the 144,000 who come out of Israel, not believing in a literal 144,000, nor in literal Israel. It always brings me back to Eve in the garden when Satan laid his trap saying "did God say that you could not eat any of the fruit in the garden?" And Eve said, "no, but he did say that we could eat any of the fruit, but of the fruit in the middle of the garden we cannot eat of it or we shall surely die." Then Satan said, "No, God knows that in the day that you eat of it you will become like God, knowing good from evil. So, Eve believed Satan and people are falling for this on every Biblical subject.
Actually, the scripture states that there will be "a weeping and gnashing of teeth." However, it says nothing about "until they are they are no more." That would be adding to the scripture.
All scripture as a whole regarding the fate of the wicked, uses the words, "everlasting, eternal, forever and ever and no rest day of night." It makes me wonder what else God would have to have put into His word to get the point of never ending, on-going punishment? Because I see that many people are not believing what is written.
It is the same with many other Biblical topics. For example, scripture declares that when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, that Satan is going to be cast into the Abyss and restricted there for a thousand years, with "a thousand years" mentioned six times. Yet people don't believe that it is a literal binding in a literal Abyss, nor do they believe in a literal thousand years. Now, for people to read it and not believe it, that's true deception. They do the same thing with the 144,000 who come out of Israel, not believing in a literal 144,000, nor in literal Israel. It always brings me back to Eve in the garden when Satan laid his trap saying "did God say that you could not eat any of the fruit in the garden?" And Eve said, "no, but he did say that we could eat any of the fruit, but of the fruit in the middle of the garden we cannot eat of it or we shall surely die." Then Satan said, "No, God knows that in the day that you eat of it you will become like God, knowing good from evil. So, Eve believed Satan and people are falling for this on every Biblical subject.
Our difference in opinion is that you believe the lie satan told Eve that if you sin you won't die. I believe what God said that the wages of sin is death. I believe that when we die in this body our breath of life that God gave us goes back to him. Just breath not a conscience spirit.
God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then man became a living soul.
I believe when we die we know nothing are not conscience and you believe that a conscience spirit goes to heaven or hell. This is where our beliefs differ.
God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and then man became a living soul.
I believe when we die we know nothing are not conscience and you believe that a conscience spirit goes to heaven or hell. This is where our beliefs differ.
-
1
- Show all
So you believe Spirit going to heaven or hell.
That is what I believe, but you believe hell is temporary. And I believe hell is eternal
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Because some verse say so. This is one of the verses that say hell is everlasting
That is what I believe, but you believe hell is temporary. And I believe hell is eternal
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Because some verse say so. This is one of the verses that say hell is everlasting
Actually, the scripture says no such thing. Below is the truth of this matter:
"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Where do you read that those who are thrown into the lake of fire cease to exist? Below is the fate of the beast, false prophet, Satan and his angels and everyone whose name will have not been found written in the book of life.
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
"If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Take notice of the reference regarding them being tormented day and night forever and ever, their smoke of torment rising up forever and ever and having no rest day or night. Those are not words referring to temporary punishment, but on-going, never ending, eternal punishment.
You people need to repent of these teachings, because you are misrepresenting God's word.
"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Where do you read that those who are thrown into the lake of fire cease to exist? Below is the fate of the beast, false prophet, Satan and his angels and everyone whose name will have not been found written in the book of life.
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
"If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Take notice of the reference regarding them being tormented day and night forever and ever, their smoke of torment rising up forever and ever and having no rest day or night. Those are not words referring to temporary punishment, but on-going, never ending, eternal punishment.
You people need to repent of these teachings, because you are misrepresenting God's word.
-
1
- Show all
I've discussed every passage you've cited on numerous occasions giving sound answers to the actual passages you've cited. I haven't avoided anything you've cited.
In all that time, I asked you one question on more than one occasion which you never answered.
Actually, I was misrepresenting God's character when I believed as you do and needed to repent of that.
In all that time, I asked you one question on more than one occasion which you never answered.
Actually, I was misrepresenting God's character when I believed as you do and needed to repent of that.
Yes the smoke of the fire showing the judgement of the letter of the law will continue to rise day and night and declare mankind guilty. The suffering of hell the first death day and night.
The key is ....as long as it is "day and night" or understood by "under the Sun" .Speaking of this corrupted creation as the wrath of God being revealed from heaven . It would appear to have started ticking down on day four. previously maintained by the glory of His appearing. 12 hours of appearing and 12 hours of hiding the glory.
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation21: 22-25
On the last day when the letter of the law had served it purpose it will not rise to condemn mankind forever more.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Suffering ends with death never to rise to new spirit life.
The key is ....as long as it is "day and night" or understood by "under the Sun" .Speaking of this corrupted creation as the wrath of God being revealed from heaven . It would appear to have started ticking down on day four. previously maintained by the glory of His appearing. 12 hours of appearing and 12 hours of hiding the glory.
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.Revelation21: 22-25
On the last day when the letter of the law had served it purpose it will not rise to condemn mankind forever more.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Suffering ends with death never to rise to new spirit life.
You haven't scripturally answered any of the questions. Anything that you did was refuted with scripture. So, if you like, ask those same questions and I will give you the same scriptural answers, like the one I did above.
There is no such thing as annihilation, as this is never taught in scripture, period!
All sin is against an infinite and Holy God and will result in on-going conscious existence in separation from God in the lake of fire. This is what scripture teaches. There are no scriptures that teach temporary punishment.
I say again, you need to stop teaching these things because you are misrepresenting the word of God.
There is no such thing as annihilation, as this is never taught in scripture, period!
All sin is against an infinite and Holy God and will result in on-going conscious existence in separation from God in the lake of fire. This is what scripture teaches. There are no scriptures that teach temporary punishment.
I say again, you need to stop teaching these things because you are misrepresenting the word of God.
That scripture regarding Satan does not teach nonexistence. God's word does not contradict itself. You can't have the above meaning nonexistence and then scripture saying the following:
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Do you see what I have highlighted in red above? You can't be nonexistent and be tormented day and night forever and ever. It states that the beast, the false prophet, Satan will be existing in eternal torment and that from the supporting words "day and night forever and ever" or don't you understand what those words mean? If God wanted to convey to us that punishment was temporary, He would not use the descriptive words of "everlasting, forever and ever and eternal." If punishment was temporary God is able to convey that idea, but He never does.
"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Do you see what I have highlighted in red above? You can't be nonexistent and be tormented day and night forever and ever. It states that the beast, the false prophet, Satan will be existing in eternal torment and that from the supporting words "day and night forever and ever" or don't you understand what those words mean? If God wanted to convey to us that punishment was temporary, He would not use the descriptive words of "everlasting, forever and ever and eternal." If punishment was temporary God is able to convey that idea, but He never does.
Malachi 4:3, KJV: "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."
If the wicked are ashes under our feet how can they not be dead and gone. Because you will reply their spirit which means we disagree on belief of the state of the dead which I believe are sleeping knowing nothing and you believe a spirit with eternal life.
God is the only immortal/everlasting being we will not have eternal life until after Jesus comes.
Over and over and around and around it's how this goes....
Word.
If the wicked are ashes under our feet how can they not be dead and gone. Because you will reply their spirit which means we disagree on belief of the state of the dead which I believe are sleeping knowing nothing and you believe a spirit with eternal life.
God is the only immortal/everlasting being we will not have eternal life until after Jesus comes.
Over and over and around and around it's how this goes....
Word.