Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

Oh! I'm mot mad at all.
If I am anything? It's more sad, and frankly disappointed.
There's a lot more to the "Temple of God", then the "Chief Cornerstone." (Jesus Christ) Called "Bethel", in the O.T. (House OF God). As opposed to another house described in the O.T. called "Beth-Aven." (house of nothing)
One cannot accept the "chief cornerstone", and fancy oneself, as having "built" the "whole" Temple. It don't work that way. There are a lot of "stones" involved.
Just as there is a lot of difference from one being "saved?" And, "inheritance."
Salvation? Is a gift! The Gift of the Holy Spirit? Reckon that's a gift also. Hence the Name, eh?
Inheritance? Is NOT a gift! It is "earned!" And, this is the difference between being "saved", and being "Adopted."
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Which is different then:
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Isaiah 28
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Just as there is a difference between "eternal" and "everlasting."

But, to understand this? One must understand the "war" that's been going on ever since the attempted overthrow, which is what brought an end to the previous earth/heaven age.

Many saved people believe this "war" is yet to come. Many adopted people know this "war" has been going on for a much MUCH longer period of time.

Sorry to disappoint. We are talking apples and oranges. So on to apples. Are the elect and the remnant the predestined, foreknew in the "adopted" with the inheritance from the 1st earth age? or do they have a separate "place"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What standard are you referring to; perfection or holiness? I mentioned "perfection" because it was a requirement for salvation by the Law and "holiness" because it is a requirement for salvation in the New Covenant.

I am not a Law keeper, I believe in salvation by genuine grace through genuine faith.

Holiness and perfection are the same

Again, You keep missing my point.

 

[lightbearer]

lightbearer said:
Praise God! May HIS wellness press upon us all!

Yes all!
Amen?

 

[gb9]

Yes all!
Amen?

as long as it does not include mandatory Sabbath keeping, them amen!

if it does, then it is wrong.

 

[Marcelo]

Holiness and perfection are the same

Again, You keep missing my point.

I would say a person is perfect if they lack nothing, and holy if they have a perfect relationship with God.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yes, I think that's how it goes.

This just popped into my head, if someone had gone into the temple prior to it being burnt down and removed the ark, it very likely would have violated the law of Moses regarding how the ark is to be transported and who was to enter the holy of holies.

Also, and this is just speculation, but I heard once that it was the Babylonian custom to castrate people in Daniel's position. That would have made Daniel not qualified to be part of the Assembly of the Lord according to the law of Moses. it puts Daniels relationship with God in an interesting light, I think.

Greetings Dan,

Were you the one who was looking into the details of Partial Preterism? How about PH, he seems to be asserting that too. Much of that may make sense too, but I would have to get the details and then study the scriptures for confirmation. Let all things be established by the mouth of two or three witnesses. Agreed?

 

[Oceanti]

What a great question and good point. I hear this a lot people saying the old laws are out. One spot in the bible that says once Jesus was nailed to the cross the old law went with it, I will try to find it.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yes. Of course many of them actually were carried away very far.
2 Kings 17: 6. In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away to Assyria, and placed them in Halah, and on the Habor, the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

The Assyrians were recorded as being known for taking large gropup of peoples and relocating them on the perimeters of their national boundries. These people on their perimeter served as a buffer against invading forces. Israel being one of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would say a person is perfect if they lack nothing, and holy if they have a perfect relationship with God.

So how holy does one have to be to reach heaven?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I didn't say we must be perfect, I said that before the cross Jesus said we should be perfect. After the cross, however, the Lord Jesus gave us new instructions (through Paul and other apostles) regarding salvation. In the New Covenant we don't need to be perfect, but we have to be holy.

Matthew 5:48 New International Version (NIV)
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Hebrews 12:14 English Standard Version (ESV)
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

&;
Mat 5:8 KJV Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
SG

 

[Dan_473]

Greetings Dan,

Were you the one who was looking into the details of Partial Preterism? How about PH, he seems to be asserting that too. Much of that may make sense too, but I would have to get the details and then study the scriptures for confirmation. Let all things be established by the mouth of two or three witnesses. Agreed?

Greetings SimpleGardner,

I don't think I've talked about preterism here on CC, at least not for a long time. But I do think it has some advantages.

And yes, I agree with the idea of two or three witnesses.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Greetings SimpleGardner,

I don't think I've talked about preterism here on CC, at least not for a long time. But I do think it has some advantages.

And yes, I agree with the idea of two or three witnesses.

Apologies, I think I remember who that was now.

 

[Dino246]

What a great question and good point. I hear this a lot people saying the old laws are out. One spot in the bible that says once Jesus was nailed to the cross the old law went with it, I will try to find it.

Welcome to CC, Oceanti! You're probably thinking of Colossians 2:14.

 

[Marcelo]

So how holy does one have to be to reach heaven?

If you don't commit sins that lead to death, have genuine faith, love in your heart, patience, forgiveness, etc, you are holy and will be saved. Those who think that Jesus paid for ALL our sins (past and future) most probably will not be saved.

 

[SimpleGardner]

yes, yes, yes.



hmm...
((no comment))



no, Christ didn't become the Son of God by obedience. He wasn't at some point "not the Son" and later "become" the Son.
He was baptized because it was 'fitting' -- this is what He told John, who wasn't lying when He called Him the Lamb beforehand, even the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world: the world which was created through Him, for Him, and by Him.



i don't think it is a mistake to call the Spirit of Truth the Spirit of God. the Spirit of Truth is definitely the spirit sent by Christ to and received by His sheep ((John 14:17, 15:26, 16:13; 1 John 4:6, 5:6)). but this is the same spirit that dwells in us, and is called the Spirit of God in 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:11, 7:40, 12:3, 14:37, etc. the NT talks about the Spirit of God being the Spirit which we received, which dwells in us, by which we are sanctified, by which we are being transformed and renewed, and also taught. unless Jesus was wrong ((are you with Guojing on that? LOL BBQ HDTV WWF?)) it's the same Spirit He sent, to indwell us, to teach us, and to comfort us. John records this in his gospel, and then in a letter ((1st John)) talks about the 'Spirit of Truth' in the same way that Peter & Paul speak about what they call the 'Spirit of God'
i think it's the same, just different names.
you may reply, '7 spirits of God' per Revelation, and i understand where you're coming from on that, just don't think it's the right perspective mathematically. i would say, 'but God is one, and His Spirit is one - speaking of 7 spirits is like speaking of the trinity; it's a wonderful and deep mystery - a matter of measures as though in two radically different coordinate systems, and doesn't defy the singularity of God'

so, the Spirit of Truth = Spirit of God in my understanding. just as for God all things are possible, for the Spirit of God all things are possible - because God is One and His Spirit is tantamount to Himself ((by measure)) - so the Spirit is not "limited" -- to me, that is an impossibility. He may refrain from doing something, but that doesn't mean He is unable to do something. ((obviously not talking about sin: God cannot lie is not a statement limiting Him, in the sense i am using the word 'limit' -- that's because of who He is, not because of something beyond the extent of His power or authority))



yes, i can agree with an understanding that what one might call "limited knowledge and/or understanding" is exactly the same as what another might call "limited truth" -- not that THE TRUTH is constrained but that the person does not possess it completely



100%
and i understand how you got there, just have a couple shall we say 'technical objections' in the foundational logic

BTW -
i have been very busy this week with work & visiting family. have not had time to keep up with this thread except for exchanges with a couple members. so i haven't read everything and don't really know what's been going on with and talked about among all of y'all - including, i ain't read all your posts in here, Bear, only a little bit of a couple of them 'cuz i've only had a coupe minutes at a time sporadically to log onto CC.
so, sorry if it looked like i was ignoring you, in any way.

Greetings PH,

I just returned from a long drive...a pre apology for any typos and repeating myself/

We have scriptural evidence that God can work outside of the Natural Laws of Time and Space. In fact many would argue that our perception of what Natural Law it is an aberration of actual Nature. But that's for another day. Here we are.
But, Moral laws. Without getting in over my head let me ask as simply as I can; Do you find any evidence that God cannot violate The Moral Laws He has given to man?

 

[lightbearer]

you're right, and i am sorry, i was mistaken -- i had more recently been talking about Matthew 12 -- tho can't seem to get any of these teachers of the law to interpret it, sadly -- and what you had responded to is 15 or 20 pages ago, so i misunderstood, being in a bit of a hurry posting from my phone at work where i don't have much time to interact with the forum, just spurts of a few minutes at a time.

that doesn't change anything at all in relation to this tho:



can you honestly read anything i have posted and come away thinking i am trying to accuse God of sin?

It is the logical conclusion of the manner in which you where responding. But to answer your question no. I know you probably won't see it but here is our conversation again .

lightbearer said:
Read it again please. Because it does not say that, It says, "The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ."

It does Not say Christ=law but," What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth."
And goes on to to say, "So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before."

Furthermore it says, We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart.

And in closing it states,
"The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)
Click to expand...

posthuman said:

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another;
as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(John 13:34)

lightbearer said:
And How did He love us? The Word manifested in the flesh walked in the Word, the Law, the commandments of God. He Loved God with all His heart, mind, and soul and His fellow man the same. On these two depend, hinge, hang all the Law, the commandments, the Love that is of God.

So when I posted How did He love us? The Word manifested in the flesh walked in the Word, the Law, the commandments of God. He Loved God with all His heart, mind, and soul and His fellow man the same.

And then you post scripture where the Jews are accusing Jesus of blaspheme I must ask what I asked. But no I don't think that of you posthuman. I was just making a point. Sorry you missed it.

posthuman said:
John 5:16-17
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."

He is Lord of the sabbath and Lord of the temple. He is not under these things, but they are under Him.
to be Lord of the sabbath does not mean the sabbath is greater than Him - that is to be 'servant of the sabbath'

He was the Word manifested in the Flesh. He manifested the Word in grace and truth through faith. He said, think not that I came to change the law or the prophets. He came not to change but fulfill. Until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or title hall pass from the law until all comes to pass.
And then after that He goes on in Matthew 5,6 and 7 to expound by citing and expounding on some of the moral code which he himself was living by because it is and is of Him.

The word manifested in the flesh. If Christ is manifested in our flesh. Christ in us the hope of Glory. Through which the word, the law, God's commandments are placed in our hearts, mouths and minds. God's words not mine. We as the Body of Christ, the Temple of God the New Creation in Christ will move as Christ through God's Spirit. This is the New Covenant, the new ministration. No longer to be obeyed from tables of stone and ink on parchment but from the fleshly tables of the heart. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. ! We establish it because it is part of who we are now. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE DOETH THE WORK" Not us but Christ.

 

[lightbearer]

Guojing said:
Jesus also said this "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Did that turn out to be true?
.

Yes.

You are waiting for me to ask you to elaborate?

Nice.
Sorry I am Pressed this morning for time Guojing . Lord willing we will post later. Interesting screen name my friend. Does it have a meaning?

Quick question, How Many deaths are there, and if more than one which one is Jesus referring to?

Do you see what is being alluded to?

 

[lightbearer]

SimpleGardner said:

EG your cold and calculated aggression is a blemish on this thread.

eternally-gratefull said:
I have reported you to the mods..

Why? If they would take the time to go back through this thread and others since the time you have been here they would see you have said a lot worse.

Go ahead, and show examples.

I attacked, Belittled and called people names instead of just answering the question and proviing my accusation.

I will be waiting.

Okay.
Right here in this post you implied I am a liar, slanderer, I give God a bad name, and I give God's people a bad name. Shall we continue?

And if you want to continue, I will report you also. I am sick of christian who profess to be holy and preach and judge being the worse liars and slanderers there are. They give god a bad name, they give his people a bad name, and they give Christian Chat a bad name!

 

[Guojing]

Now we understand that You know all things and that You have no need for anyone to question You. ​

Because of this, we believe that You came from God.​

“Do you finally believe?” Jesus replied.​

(John 16:30-31)​

​

i believe He set aside His glory. that's it.
He was never only partially God or not God -- 100% of 100% of time, He is 100% God: "the exact representation" ((Hebrews 1)) in flesh

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

You have the right to believe that of course. For my case, this verse will make no sense if Jesus was always all knowing, 100% of the time. But again, this kind of beliefs is personal so we can agree to disagree.

 

[Guojing]

Do you see what is being alluded to?

I interpret as Jesus was referring to physical death. I see no reason to allegorize that verse.