Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 1 Corinthians 4:1-21
Not real sure the point you are trying to make here.

Sorry. Can't tell if you agreed or disagreed. Seems like you are trying to disagree, maybe, but I don't see it in scripture.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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You didn't answer about Exodus 31:18

I wish you every peace in living as you see it.
Oh for sure I believe God wrote the commandments on stone.

And then told Moses to give them to the people who rejected His Grace.


You kind of have to wonder though, what was on those first tablets? Right? I don't have ANY guesses at that. Its just something I wonder about sometimes.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I think you posted to the wrong person there. Not one of those verses contradicts what I've always said from the time you addressed my remark concerning Galatians 3:28. You must then mean that post for someone else.
lol why would i try to contradict scripture?
you said you didn't see any exclusions. but Galatians 3 is talking about a specified group, with the property: inclusion in Christ
whatever is excluded from Christ, is not included in Him.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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How does that question relate to what I said?
you said, 'they are given by the Father .. so they are God's laws'

the same God gave Noah a law: every creature that moves will be food for you.
do you also call that God's law? it comes from the very same Father.

what then does it mean, if He told Adam only plants are to be his food, and told Noah all food is clean, and then He told the children of Israel, these certain foods shall be unclean for you? and after this, He showed Peter every kind of animal and told him, rise, kill, eat. scripture isn't broken. His law is perfect, and He does not lie, neither does He tempt anyone to sin. which is His true law?

that's how it relates. what is the true meaning of '
law' and what is the true 'law' ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring
Numbers 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
Numbers 15:41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.




But the Law of Moses was only put in place "temporarily" expiring at John the Baptist, and had to be taken completely out for the New Covenant to come in. It was the shadow of what "was to come" and when Jesus arrived, it was rendered null and void for that purpose.
why was it commanded to be blue?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Oh for sure I believe God wrote the commandments on stone.

And then told Moses to give them to the people who rejected His Grace.
The law even then didn't save a people.
God's ten commands stand forever and ever. Psalm 111:7-8 and also the Apostle Saint Paul's writing in the Book of Ephesians chapter 2 and verse 15.
"Where no law is, there is no transgression or sin." Book of Romans chapter 4 and verse 15.
How would God's law not exist any longer when today's people are still finding themselves called to God's grace so as to be saved from their sins?

In the Book of 2nd Chronicles chapter 35. The Book of Moses Law pertained to the ordinances that guided a people until the Messiah. Then it perished at the foot of the cross, as we're told in the Book of Ephesians chapter 2 and verse 15.
Moses law pertained to God's priesthood, sacrifices for sin, worship rituals, meat and drink offerings, regulations concerning clothing, like not mixing two threads, and so forth. It was a carnal ordinance or law.

The ten commands of God preceded Sinai and was the spiritual law. I don't believe those guideposts no longer apply. Namely because they are grounded in love, which is what Jesus said his laws and the prophets hung upon. And also, the first command is to love God. To have no other God's before Father God. If those ten no longer apply then that first one would not either.


You kind of have to wonder though, what was on those first tablets? Right? I don't have ANY guesses at that. Its just something I wonder about sometimes.
Wasn't that a old Monty Python sketch? Their version of Moses coming down from the mountain saying, "I have these 20 command.." and then he drops two tablets and says, " I have been given these ten commandments..."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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"Where no law is, there is no transgression or sin." Book of Romans chapter 4 and verse 15.
Paul also writes, sin was in the world before the law ever was.
sin, then, does not necessarily imply law, because sin came before it - '
the law was added because of transgression'
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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The law even then didn't save a people.
God's ten commands stand forever and ever. Psalm 111:7-8 and also the Apostle Saint Paul's writing in the Book of Ephesians chapter 2 and verse 15.
"Where no law is, there is no transgression or sin." Book of Romans chapter 4 and verse 15.
How would God's law not exist any longer when today's people are still finding themselves called to God's grace so as to be saved from their sins?

In the Book of 2nd Chronicles chapter 35. The Book of Moses Law pertained to the ordinances that guided a people until the Messiah. Then it perished at the foot of the cross, as we're told in the Book of Ephesians chapter 2 and verse 15.
Moses law pertained to God's priesthood, sacrifices for sin, worship rituals, meat and drink offerings, regulations concerning clothing, like not mixing two threads, and so forth. It was a carnal ordinance or law.

The ten commands of God preceded Sinai and was the spiritual law. I don't believe those guideposts no longer apply. Namely because they are grounded in love, which is what Jesus said his laws and the prophets hung upon. And also, the first command is to love God. To have no other God's before Father God. If those ten no longer apply then that first one would not either.


Wasn't that a old Monty Python sketch? Their version of Moses coming down from the mountain saying, "I have these 20 command.." and then he drops two tablets and says, " I have been given these ten commandments..."
lol let me tell you now, Whispered, don't fall for the "Gish Gallop" fallacy.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Wasn't that a old Monty Python sketch? Their version of Moses coming down from the mountain saying, "I have these 20 command.." and then he drops two tablets and says, " I have been given these ten commandments..."
I don't think it was Monty Python.

I think it was Mel Brooks.

It was kind of funny though...
 
Aug 17, 2019
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Not real sure the point you are trying to make here.

Sorry. Can't tell if you agreed or disagreed. Seems like you are trying to disagree, maybe, but I don't see it in scripture.
It says there not to go beyond what is written. You have said that the 10 commandments is not God's law so I dare to disagree.

Jesus told His disciples to teach people to obey everything He has commanded them and in the presence of His disciples He commanded the rich young man to obey the commandments referring to the 10 which according to Romans 13:8-14 is fulfilled through LOVE.

This is the message we have heard from the beginning. (1 John 1:5, 2:7, 3:11)

For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Hebrews 4:2

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:16-26

It is clear that if God is with us, nothing is impossible.

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Word, the law, the LOVE according to scriptures will be in our(Christians)
hearts. They all agree with each other...in unity. So if your heart tells you not to obey the law, someone else must be there.

Walk in Love and GOD bless.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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please brother let me see the list when u wake up ok? God bless u and good night
Here we are :)

50 Commands of Christ - Summary List
1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Maybe this is a Godsend. I have signed up for bible verse emails and articles from different Bible and Christian sources. Today I got this 2018 article. Which is why I say maybe it is a Godsend given this topic now.
2 Heinous Lies Satan Spreads about the Bible
The scribes and Pharisees were teachers of the law and according to Jesus, their father was the devil.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (Joh 8:44 KJV)

Do we really want to follow the devil's law that leads to damnation?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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The scribes and Pharisees were descendants of Edomites who remained in the land and grew in power after Israel was taken into Babylon captivity.


A very abridged version of history:

[Genesis 36] - While Esau is a son of Abraham through Isaac, He rejected his birthright while also marrying restricted women of other nations, spoiling his seed. Recall that Esau/Edom HATES Jacob/Israel because of the stolen birthright that they claim as rightfully theirs. Also remember that Yah says "Jacob I love, Esau I Hate."

[2 Samuel 8:13-14] - When David conquered the Edomites they became the servants of Israel.

[1 Kings 11:14] - When Solomon began sinning, Yah allowed the Edomites to rise in power and rival him.

[Obadiah 1] - Edom conspired with Israel's enemies and then did nothing when Israel was captured and taken away.

[Psalm:137:7] - Edom laid claim of Jerusalem when Israel was taken away. And as former servants of the kingdom, they retained all the knowledge of the temple service and the scriptures...so when Judah was allowed to return they relied on Edomite "Judeans".

[Intertestimental history] - These "Edomite" Judeans formed the Hasmonean Priestly dynasty after the Maccabean revolt. The Pharisees and scribes grew as sects out of this dynasty's sages. They maintained that there was given an "Oral Law" (i.e. laws that weren't written down with The Written Torah). So these Edomite priests taught the people a mix of The Written Torah and Oral Law (Takanot & Ma'asim).

This is why Christ says "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. A little leaven leavens the whole lump." They mixed truth with error.

It is the "Oral Law" that was considered the "tradition of the men" that Christ said, "made the commandments of God of none effect".
It is the "Oral Law" that was codified into the Talmud, which became the basis for Judaism.

Fast-forward to the time of Christ, and the gospels detail that Herod's "royal" family were also Idumeans (Edomites), and history records that they are also Hasmoneans.

----

None of the groups that were in power in Judea at the time of Christ were actually true Israelites.

"If Abraham was your father, you would do what he did...your father is the devil."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
The scribes and Pharisees were descendants of Edomites who remained in the land and grew in power after Israel was taken into Babylon captivity.


A very abridged version of history:

[Genesis 36] - While Esau is a son of Abraham through Isaac, He rejected his birthright while also marrying restricted women of other nations, spoiling his seed. Recall that Esau/Edom HATES Jacob/Israel because of the stolen birthright that they claim as rightfully theirs. Also remember that Yah says "Jacob I love, Esau I Hate."

[2 Samuel 8:13-14] - When David conquered the Edomites they became the servants of Israel.

[1 Kings 11:14] - When Solomon began sinning, Yah allowed the Edomites to rise in power and rival him.

[Obadiah 1] - Edom conspired with Israel's enemies and then did nothing when Israel was captured and taken away.

[Psalm:137:7] - Edom laid claim of Jerusalem when Israel was taken away. And as former servants of the kingdom, they retained all the knowledge of the temple service and the scriptures...so when Judah was allowed to return they relied on Edomite "Judeans".

[Intertestimental history] - These "Edomite" Judeans formed the Hasmonean Priestly dynasty after the Maccabean revolt. The Pharisees and scribes grew as sects out of this dynasty's sages. They maintained that there was given an "Oral Law" (i.e. laws that weren't written down with The Written Torah). So these Edomite priests taught the people a mix of The Written Torah and Oral Law (Takanot & Ma'asim).

This is why Christ says "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. A little leaven leavens the whole lump." They mixed truth with error.

It is the "Oral Law" that was considered the "tradition of the men" that Christ said, "made the commandments of God of none effect".
It is the "Oral Law" that was codified into the Talmud, which became the basis for Judaism.

Fast-forward to the time of Christ, and the gospels detail that Herod's "royal" family were also Idumeans (Edomites), and history records that they are also Hasmoneans.

----

None of the groups that were in power in Judea at the time of Christ were actually true Israelites.

"If Abraham was your father, you would do what he did...your father is the devil."
Thank you Joshua, that is very interesting, you don't mind if I keep it with the rest of my notes do you?

So let me ask, what in the whole of the Bible do you treasure the most?
 
May 1, 2019
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The scribes and Pharisees were teachers of the law and according to Jesus, their father was the devil.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (Joh 8:44 KJV)

Do we really want to follow the devil's law that leads to damnation?

Vague, open ended, poorly constructed, needs a lot of clarification.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Thank you for sharing your view @Grandpa

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:6-13

Do you (not refering to you)no longer let us do anything for our Father in heaven as His faithful servants by saying that those who obey the law/commandments of God are cursed, condemned, foolish works salvationist? What then shall the faithful servants of God obey if not the law or His commandments? How can they walk like Jesus did when He walked in Love on this earth? (2 John 1:6,Hebrews 5:7-9))

The law of Moses was given to the Israelites who are under that law. (Malachi 4:4)

...All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. Romans 2:1-16

Do you follow or obey your parents? Do you follow or obey the laws of the land (US Laws)?

Why not follow or obey your Father in heaven?

Why not follow or obey God's law and commandments?

Walk in Love (2 John 1:6)
Did I obey my parents perfetly? No, Do I obey the laws of my state perfectly? I am quite sre I do not (the state speed limit is one it does not take uch to break. If the speed limit is 55, going 56 is breaking the law) Do I obey my faither perfectly? No. And if I said I did, you should call me a liar and decieved. Because thats what Jhn said I would be. Thus according to Gods standard. I have failed to keep the law.

Now. Do I desire to live a righteous life? Yes.

But history and scriptur eproves, we do nto do it by following ten commands.. So why would you wish to try to find righteousness that way?