The word rapture is not in the bible Is this the moment we are changed? Is it mens ideas? is it future or past
Give scriptures to back up what you think
Give scriptures to back up what you think
What is the Rapture
- Thread starter Josefnospam
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Uh, ok...….…..hmm...…..
Tell ya what...…….YOU START us off by telling us what you think, and be sure to include Scriptures to back up what you say...…..
See, that way, we can have a go at you first, and not be subjected to your attempts at pfishing
The word rapture comes from the Latin word raptura this word means ""Caught Up"" this term is in the Holy Bible..
This following passage shows the rapture happens on the day of the return of our LORD Jesus Christ..
1 Thessalonians 4: KJV
16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
So the term Caught Up in the above scripture is is translated as raptura in old Latin.. And those Christians who are still alive on the day of the return of Jesus will be caught up into the clouds to meet Jesus as He arrives from heaven..
The following passage gives more detail of the rapture..
1 Corinthians 15: KJV
49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. {50} Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. {53} For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. {54} So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. {55} O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"
So in the above scripture we are told that we shall not all sleep.. Now this is saying that we shall not all die.. Because at the time of the return of Jesus some Christians will still be on earth alive.. the scripture declares we will be transformed in a moment from our current corruptible flesh bodies into perfect eternal ( immortal) bodies so that we can inherit eternity with Jesus in his perfect eternal existence..
There are more scriptures that show a rapture.. If you would like me to post more of them let me know..
The views I have read or heard are: 1) it is invisible and secret, 2) Everyone sees it and it is before the Tribulation. 3) It is mid trib.
I would offer. The rapture is the resurrection power of God not seen. That power or authority is used to create new creatures that were previously dead in their trespasses and sins without a living hope, and living God. .
Its present and future as one work in two parts.
It is the moment we are changed ….the receiving our new incorruptible bodies. . . our living hope. Having received the new born again spirit and heart it is the final goal of our new faith as the gift of God. .
It is not reckoned after what the eyes see. For who hopes for what they already have. But again is the power to move us to fulfill his promise. He promises us if he has begun the good work in us with us he will finish it. It a was not reckoned the flesh as corrupted that Jesus inherited from his mother, but by the unseen work of his holiness that works in us .
Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith (His) among all nations, for his name:
This is what you posted;
Josefnospam
Senior Member
Mar 8, 2019
#648
The return of Christ will usher in the new heaven and new earth and is surley rhe hope of all his elected people when he returns all will know and hes coming to get us and bring judgemnet on the world for there sins Never the less we according to his promise look for new heavens and new earth wherein dwells righteouness to say hes not coming denies his promise where is your salvation is it not in the Lord when he returns
Dear Josefnospam:
I regret to inform you that any expressed desire on you part to understand any scriptural embrace concerning this theogony of "rapture" will most likely end in frustration .
As soon as your thoughts were posted traps and snares were laid in an effort to silence your challenge to traditional theology.
Many souls reside in this vast room (which is only one of many) they call the "rapture". They were locked there by traditional teaching handed down from generation to generation. Many have tried to free these individuals only to discover the room is locked from the inside. Only those who desire to be free from tradition can open it.
Every believer is in the care of The Holy Spirt or who is also known as the Teacher.
Many things I have learned along my journey , one , not being the least, there is no room for dogmatic theology in caring for the saints.
Leaving this mortal life behind is only a transition from of learning to another. There is no cabin in the corner of Glory Land.
Until the last trumpet has sounded Christ will always be reveling more of Himself to us and in us.
I patiently await the coming chastisement but remember this nothing can or shall diminish the Love of Christ toward us in this journey.
I regret to inform you that any expressed desire on you part to understand any scriptural embrace concerning this theogony of "rapture" will most likely end in frustration .
As soon as your thoughts were posted traps and snares were laid in an effort to silence your challenge to traditional theology.
Many souls reside in this vast room (which is only one of many) they call the "rapture". They were locked there by traditional teaching handed down from generation to generation. Many have tried to free these individuals only to discover the room is locked from the inside. Only those who desire to be free from tradition can open it.
Every believer is in the care of The Holy Spirt or who is also known as the Teacher.
Many things I have learned along my journey , one , not being the least, there is no room for dogmatic theology in caring for the saints.
Leaving this mortal life behind is only a transition from of learning to another. There is no cabin in the corner of Glory Land.
Until the last trumpet has sounded Christ will always be reveling more of Himself to us and in us.
I patiently await the coming chastisement but remember this nothing can or shall diminish the Love of Christ toward us in this journey.
Not me
I am waiting on the bridegroom.
You await the one on a white horse.
The last of the bible
Jesus leaves us with "the spirit and the bride say come"
Every believer dies in the gt.
They are left behind and martyred.
Not a bad end. Just foolish.
Obedience to the word.
Watch and wait.
JNS was not *challenging traditional theology*. He was probably indicating that he is not clear or solidly grounded in this doctrine. Or perhaps totally ignorant about this matter. [ Note: Whenever someone speaks of *traditional theology* as though it were tainted, they are tending towards cultism (a departure from traditional theology).]
But the Resurrection/Rapture is A SOLID BIBLE DOCTRINE which was generally ignored (or confused with the Second Coming) until the about 19th century.
The word *rapture* is derived from the Latin *rapimur* in the Latin Vulgate, which is a translation for *caught up* (together) as see in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. So we need to look at the context (verses 13-18) for the full biblical teaching:
1 THESSALONIANS 4
1. GOD DOES NOT WANT US TO BE IGNORANT ABOUT THE BLESSED HOPE OF THE RAPTURE
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [those who have died in Christ], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [as the heathen do]
2. THE RAPTURE IS SOLIDLY BASED UPON THE DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again...
3. THE SOULS AND SPIRITS OF THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL BE BROUGHT BY HIM
...even so them also which sleep in Jesus [the dead saints] will God bring with him... [with Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture].
4. THIS IS GOD'S REVELATION TO HIS CHILDREN
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord... [Paul was given this revelation by Christ Himself]
5. THE LIVING SAINTS WILL NOT PRECEDE THE DEAD SAINTS AT THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE
...that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord [for His saints] shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep. [which have passed on]
6. CHRIST PERSONALLY COMES FOR ALL HIS SAINTS
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout... [this is quite distinct from the Second Coming, since Christ comes *in the air* and returns to Heaven with all the saints]
7. THE ARCHANGEL (MICHAEL) WILL ANNOUNCE HIS COMING
with the voice of the archangel... [this shows how important this event is]
8. THIS IS ALSO CALLED THE *LAST TRUMP*
...and with the trump of God... [this has nothing to do with the trumpet judgments, since it is announcing the culmination of salvation, which is perfection and glorification. And this again shows how important this event is]
9. THE FIRST RESURRECTION GIVES THE DEAD SAINTS PRECEDENCE
...and the dead in Christ shall rise first... [this is when they are perfected and given immortal, glorious, glorified *spiritual bodies* (free from earthly and mortal limitations)]
10. THEN COMES THE RAPTURE (FOR THE SAINTS WHO ARE ALIVE AT THAT TIME)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds... [ "caught up together" = Gk harpagesometha = snatching up] [this is also when the living saints are transformed and perfected with immortal bodies]
11. THE LORD DOES NOT DESCEND TO THE EARTH
...to meet the Lord in the air... [the Resurrection/Rapture is a supernatural event, which occurs *in the twinkling of an eye* (split second) and is hidden from the unbelieving world, hence *secret*]
12. SINCE THE LORD RETURNS TO HEAVEN, THE SAINTS WILL BE IN HEAVEN
...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [this is also the reason why the Rapture will be before the Tribulation and Great Tribulation. The works of the saints will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ, followed by the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven]
13. THE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE IS FOR THE COMFORT OF THE SAINTS
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. [salvation begins with justification, continues with sanctification, and culminates with glorification (Rom 8:29,30). The Resurrection/Rapture is for the glorification of the saints, which also tells us that children of God can never lose their salvation]
i hear this so much that Jesus doesnt descend to the earth but it doesnt say that anywhere. The Lord shall descend from heaven is all it says. from heaven to where? earth i'd say. or from third heaven to first heaven and then go back up? that isnt in the verse that anyone goes back.
also the doctrine of the resurrection is to comfort the saints because [context] they were worried because their family members have died.
What does it mean "to meet the Lord in the air"? If Christ were coming to earth we would not have that statement. Christians are to draw logical conclusions and not always look for explicit statements when so much is implied. Where is Christ? Where does He come? Where will He return with the saints? It is all there.
S
Stranger36147
Guest
Hmmm....well, let's look at the definition of the word.
rap·ture
/ˈrapCHər/
noun
noun: rapture; noun: Rapture; noun: the Rapture
a feeling of intense pleasure or joy.
There you have it.
rap·ture
/ˈrapCHər/
noun
noun: rapture; noun: Rapture; noun: the Rapture
a feeling of intense pleasure or joy.
There you have it.
i guess thats a translation thing. to meet the Lord in the air in my tongue and what some greek people say too is it means you go outside the city to meet the king who is coming to your city
so we go meet the Lord in the air, and we escort Him to earth to setup the kingdom.
thats how i look at it.
the matthew 24:31 and 1 thessalonains 4:16-17 have too many similarities for me to consider them different. if you put matt 24:31, 1thess 4:16-17, 1 cor 15:51, rev 11:15 side by side and you ask someone if thats the same event. if they havent been told the pretrib doctrine and all the hoops you have to go through to keep it, they will most likely say yes, its the same event. if they are pretribbers they have to do their columns again where they say
"rapture is a comfort- second coming is judgment" so they cant be the same thing. but this is just so sad. the second coming is judgment to unbelievers but to believers its a comfort. very simple.
but this will never be solved i know that. only way to find out is to wait and see. but im lock in my view and you are in yours. but i still like to know how you look at it, do you look at it as: "Jesus descends from 3rd heaven to 1st heaven"?
Where did the term 'rapture' come from?
Regarding the term rapture and its use in theology the following should answer your questions. It is taken from Ryrie’s Basic Theology, Electronic Media from Parsons Technology.
Our modern understanding of rapture appears to have little or no connection with the eschatological event. However, the word is properly used of that event. Rapture is a state or experience of being carried away. The English word comes from a Latin word, rapio, which means to seize or snatch in relation to an ecstasy of spirit or the actual removal from one place to another. In other words, it means to be carried away in spirit or in body. The Rapture of the church means the carrying away of the church from earth to heaven.https://bible.org/question/where-did-term-8216rapture’-come
That could be considered IF that were the ONLY word Paul uses to speak of this event.
As it stands, he speaks of it [our Rapture event] something like 10 times in these two epistles of the Thessalonians (using differing/various words and phrases, and not merely the ONE verse/reference which uses the word "rapture / harpagēsometha / caught-away / caught-up [G726]" 1Th4:17)