True or False - "Another Jesus"?

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Grace911

Grace911

Active member
#1
Nov 11, 2018
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#1
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them. He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.

To believe that the Old Testament has value in a modern-day Christianity is to be "legalistic". As if havings laws and following them are wrong!! In spite many scriptures of the Old Testament state they are forever, instead they are to be ignored, so says the learned.

Did Jesus come to make a new religion? When did the House of Judah make Jewish laws? Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sadducees for "adding to the laws"? Does that same Jesus hate the adding to and the taking away from the foundation of our Christian faith?

Are our beliefs handed down to us from seminary to pulpit? Does your leader/pastor tell you that Jesus is nothing like the God of the Old Testament? That Jesus nailed the Laws to the cross? That Peter's vision of unclean foods are now perfectly OK to eat, however we still call men "unclean" or "legalistic" or "forbidden"?

Just what does the Bible say is to be liefted up or what does the Bible say is on a lesser scale than what we are taught by educated seminary graduates in the church?

How many Christian denominations are there and which one is closest to being what the Bible teaches?

I really like the scriptural debates here on CC. At least we know people are reading their Bibles, right? And growing in maturity? So let's challenge the readers of the Bible and see if this clear as mud discussions can become as Living Waters.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#2
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
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#2
Grace911 said:
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them. He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.
Click to expand...
You need to take this up with Paul who called Israel's covenant shadows that were soon to pass away and take into account what Peter said about them being a yoke:

(Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days)

(Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.)

You can remain in the shadow if you wish.

(Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.)

(Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?)

Of course the old testament has value.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#3
#3
Grace911 said:
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them. He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.

To believe that the Old Testament has value in a modern-day Christianity is to be "legalistic". As if havings laws and following them are wrong!! In spite many scriptures of the Old Testament state they are forever, instead they are to be ignored, so says the learned.

Did Jesus come to make a new religion? When did the House of Judah make Jewish laws? Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sadducees for "adding to the laws"? Does that same Jesus hate the adding to and the taking away from the foundation of our Christian faith?

Are our beliefs handed down to us from seminary to pulpit? Does your leader/pastor tell you that Jesus is nothing like the God of the Old Testament? That Jesus nailed the Laws to the cross? That Peter's vision of unclean foods are now perfectly OK to eat, however we still call men "unclean" or "legalistic" or "forbidden"?

Just what does the Bible say is to be liefted up or what does the Bible say is on a lesser scale than what we are taught by educated seminary graduates in the church?

How many Christian denominations are there and which one is closest to being what the Bible teaches?

I really like the scriptural debates here on CC. At least we know people are reading their Bibles, right? And growing in maturity? So let's challenge the readers of the Bible and see if this clear as mud discussions can become as Living Waters.
Click to expand...
What is there to debate?

I think scripture makes it quite clear.

The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#4
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
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#4
Grace911 said:
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them. He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.

To believe that the Old Testament has value in a modern-day Christianity is to be "legalistic". As if havings laws and following them are wrong!! In spite many scriptures of the Old Testament state they are forever, instead they are to be ignored, so says the learned.

Did Jesus come to make a new religion? When did the House of Judah make Jewish laws? Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sadducees for "adding to the laws"? Does that same Jesus hate the adding to and the taking away from the foundation of our Christian faith?

Are our beliefs handed down to us from seminary to pulpit? Does your leader/pastor tell you that Jesus is nothing like the God of the Old Testament? That Jesus nailed the Laws to the cross? That Peter's vision of unclean foods are now perfectly OK to eat, however we still call men "unclean" or "legalistic" or "forbidden"?

Just what does the Bible say is to be liefted up or what does the Bible say is on a lesser scale than what we are taught by educated seminary graduates in the church?

How many Christian denominations are there and which one is closest to being what the Bible teaches?

I really like the scriptural debates here on CC. At least we know people are reading their Bibles, right? And growing in maturity? So let's challenge the readers of the Bible and see if this clear as mud discussions can become as Living Waters.
Click to expand...
In the Old Testament it is a physical covenant with blessings that pertain to this earth, and they could not have the Spirit to be spiritual and be perfect in love, so they had physical ordinances to do that they could keep.

That is why the heathen who do not have the Spirit in the millennial reign of Christ have to go up year after year to Jerusalem and worship the LORD and keep the feast of tabernacles a physical ordinance to be right with God.

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament for God said in the Old Testament that He was going to be the Savior in the future, and said there is no Savior but Him.

The Bible says that Jesus took away the physical ordinances of Israel for they were contrary to us for they could not provide spiritual salvation and had no spiritual benefit for us.

But Paul said that we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, live up to the law, and obey the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good.

Which are the laws of love, moral laws, and love works no ill towards their neighbor therefore love is the fulfilling of the law, which the ten commandments are laws of love so they are to be obeyed.

And the Spirit is our sabbath for it is a spiritual rest now.

That which is natural is first, and then that which is spiritual, and the Old Testament a school teacher until Christ came.

The Old Testament had physical ordinances and spiritual laws, laws of love, moral laws, and the laws of love, moral laws carry on in to the New Testament and can never pass away.

A Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit and not the flesh.

A Spirit led life is not under the law means that the person has all their sins forgiven and they are abstaining from sin while led of the Spirit therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Which God told the saints to not be high minded, but fear, for if God did not spare the Jews who were disobedient and did not change, then God will also not spare those who claim Christ who live in sin, for if they do not continue in the goodness of God, be like Christ, then they will be cut off also, for sin separates us from God.

But there is too much relaxing among many that claim Christ as they make excuses for their sins as if they cannot abstain from sins, and are only human, and not perfect, and will sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, and say they are sealed unto redemption.

But the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints and how they are led of the Spirit that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And those that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts so they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

But they make excuses for their sins, and hold unto them and believe they are right with God.

This appears to be the majority of people that claim Christ.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

The popular belief among many at the end time, and the 6th Church Jesus did not have anything against them, and said He will deliver the saints from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell upon earth, which is when the world says Peace and safety for will people get with God or follow the world where they will rebel against God.

They believe God blesses them with money and material things above their needs, and hold unto sin and believe they are right with God.

But God said to turn away from them, and withdraw yourselves from them, and do not keep company with them.

But all sin can be forgiven but people should have the right attitude that sin does affect our relationship with God so they get rid of it instead of holding unto it.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
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Mar 28, 2019
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few questions to you @Grace911 already:

do you believe we must be circumcised in the new covenant?
do you believe we must sacrifice animals in the new covenant?

if yes, why, scripture please?
if no, why not, scripture please?
 
Whispered

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#6
Grace911 said:
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them. He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.

To believe that the Old Testament has value in a modern-day Christianity is to be "legalistic". As if havings laws and following them are wrong!! In spite many scriptures of the Old Testament state they are forever, instead they are to be ignored, so says the learned.

Did Jesus come to make a new religion? When did the House of Judah make Jewish laws? Did Jesus hate the Pharisees and Sadducees for "adding to the laws"? Does that same Jesus hate the adding to and the taking away from the foundation of our Christian faith?

Are our beliefs handed down to us from seminary to pulpit? Does your leader/pastor tell you that Jesus is nothing like the God of the Old Testament? That Jesus nailed the Laws to the cross? That Peter's vision of unclean foods are now perfectly OK to eat, however we still call men "unclean" or "legalistic" or "forbidden"?

Just what does the Bible say is to be liefted up or what does the Bible say is on a lesser scale than what we are taught by educated seminary graduates in the church?

How many Christian denominations are there and which one is closest to being what the Bible teaches?

I really like the scriptural debates here on CC. At least we know people are reading their Bibles, right? And growing in maturity? So let's challenge the readers of the Bible and see if this clear as mud discussions can become as Living Waters.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the community. :)

Out of curiosity and after reading the first paragraph of this OP, have you read the Bible?
 
Grace911

Grace911

Active member
#7
Nov 11, 2018
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#7
Melach said:
few questions to you @Grace911 already:

do you believe we must be circumcised in the new covenant?
do you believe we must sacrifice animals in the new covenant?

if yes, why, scripture please?
if no, why not, scripture please?
Click to expand...
From the OT regarding circumcise:

Deu_10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deu_30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Who was the following covenant made with?
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Man child at 8 days old is not capable of following the commandment. It's the parents who are in the commonwealth of Israel who are keeping the commandment. Even the stranger or alien had the same one law for all.

Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Do you remember when Jospeph had a private meeting with his brothers in Egypt? What did he show them to prove that he was their brother? His circumcision? That is correct. This is a covenant with God's people. Are you God's people?

From the NT regarding one very special flesh circumcision

Luk_2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

When Jesus was 12 years old how is it He could converse with the priests? Because the only scriptures at that time was the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings, and because Jesus and the Father are one, Jesus was the author of the OT.

If Paul or anyone else teaches or preaches that the Torah is obsolete, then that person is not a follower of the true Messiah, but is following an "other Jesus". I strongly believe that Paul is just greatly misunderstood and that Satan is performing his great deception. The Torah carries "blessings and curses". Choose the right path and you are blessed. Choose the wrong way, and you will find that the deception is very strong delusions.

The Word Became Flesh
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#8
Dec 12, 2013
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#8
UnderGrace said:
What is there to debate?

I think scripture makes it quite clear.

The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)
Click to expand...
Another 7th dayer...........legalist, Pharisee, salvation loser, worker for....take you pick
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#9
Dec 12, 2013
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#9
Grace911 said:
From the OT regarding circumcise:

Deu_10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Deu_30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Who was the following covenant made with?
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Man child at 8 days old is not capable of following the commandment. It's the parents who are in the commonwealth of Israel who are keeping the commandment. Even the stranger or alien had the same one law for all.

Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Do you remember when Jospeph had a private meeting with his brothers in Egypt? What did he show them to prove that he was their brother? His circumcision? That is correct. This is a covenant with God's people. Are you God's people?

From the NT regarding one very special flesh circumcision

Luk_2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

When Jesus was 12 years old how is it He could converse with the priests? Because the only scriptures at that time was the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings, and because Jesus and the Father are one, Jesus was the author of the OT.

If Paul or anyone else teaches or preaches that the Torah is obsolete, then that person is not a follower of the true Messiah, but is following an "other Jesus". I strongly believe that Paul is just greatly misunderstood and that Satan is performing his great deception. The Torah carries "blessings and curses". Choose the right path and you are blessed. Choose the wrong way, and you will find that the deception is very strong delusions.

The Word Became Flesh
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Click to expand...
Galatians <---Circumcision profits nothing!!!!!!!

LAW plus GRACE = FALSE
 
Grace911

Grace911

Active member
#10
Nov 11, 2018
595
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#10
Whispered said:
Welcome to the community. :)

Out of curiosity and after reading the first paragraph of this OP, have you read the Bible?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have read the Bible and do so daily. But I admit I have favorite modern day authors and teachers too.
 
Grace911

Grace911

Active member
#11
Nov 11, 2018
595
148
43
#11
dcontroversal said:
Another 7th dayer...........legalist, Pharisee, salvation loser, worker for....take you pick
Click to expand...
Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
 
Grace911

Grace911

Active member
#12
Nov 11, 2018
595
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#12
dcontroversal said:
Galatians <---Circumcision profits nothing!!!!!!!

LAW plus GRACE = FALSE
Click to expand...
Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#20
Jul 18, 2017
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#20
This sounds more like a rant than anything else. So let’s examine some of your statements. And yet your user name has *grace* in it. Quite ironical.
Grace911 said:
The Jesus of modern-day Christianity all too often seems to be One who hated His Father's Law, especially the Sabbath day, and abolished it. He hated the holy days of YHWY, and abolished them.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe that any Bible-believing Christians would say such them. As for the liberals and apostates, they have another Jesus.

But getting back to Sabbath days and holy days, as long as Christ walked on this earth in Israel, He was under the Law of Moses, therefore He observed all that was written therein. But the day He cried “IT IS FINISHED” the Old Covenant came to an end. Which meant that all ceremonial observances in the Law of Moses came to an end. Paul tells us that they were “shadows of things to come” but the reality (“the body”) is Christ Himself.
He came preaching a gospel which virtually abolished the entire TaNaCh (Old Testament), the Laws of YHWY, and ridiculed and condemned all the religious leaders of the Jews.
Click to expand...
While Christ severely condemned the traditions of the Jewish religious leaders, He did NOT abolish the Old Testament (OT) . In fact, He upheld it and told His disciples that all of the Tanakh had a revelation of Him.
To believe that the Old Testament has value in a modern-day Christianity is to be "legalistic".
Click to expand...
More nonsense. Every Bible-believing Christian understands that the Ot is an integral part of the Bible and has tremendous value. What would be legalistic is to teach that IN ADDITION to faith in Christ, Christians must be Torah observant, and for example, be circumcised. That is not permissible under the New Covenant (which it seems you are not even aware of).
As if having laws and following them are wrong!! In spite many scriptures of the Old Testament state they are forever, instead they are to be ignored, so says the learned.
Click to expand...
Since the apostle Peter – a very strictly observant Jew – said that the Jews could hardly obey the Law, what makes you think that it would now be applicable to Christians. However if you are a committed UNBELIEVING JEW, you will insist that you are Torah observant, but that will be false. The reason being that the temple does not exist, the Levitical priesthood has been abolished, the animals sacrifices are null and void, and everything pertaining to the Old Covenant is now obsolete.
Did Jesus come to make a new religion?
Click to expand...
Jesus came to establish the New Covenant, which requires that you become a new creature (or creation) in Christ. If you have not been regenerated by the power of the Spirit, you can neither see nor enter into the Kingdom of God (John 3:3-5). YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.
 
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