Matthew 7:21-24John 15:5

[Lightskin]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

 

[Melach]

even plowing of the wicked is sin. if its not done in faith its all dead works.

in faith the works are approved of God ephesians 2:10

my opinion

 

[RickStudies]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

It`s easy to pick out a couple of verses and have an appearence of contradiction. That`s why it`s necessary to study entire passages and tie in topics from multiple books of the Bible.


The Bible warns of signs, lying wonders, the working of Satan

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



The Bible warns of false teachers

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


Notice the false brethren point to signs and wonders but they do not talk about winning souls and are found to be sinners.
Their power comes from Satan and he decieves them appearing as an angel of light.


It`s not about signs especially at this late hour. As the end nears signs and wonders will be coming from the wrong place. Doing great things as a believer means winning souls and serving others. And yes, unless you stay connected to Jesus and the body of Christ you can do nothing.

 

[KJV1611]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

Matthew 7 is about people that say they are Christians but are not. John 15:5 is about real Christians.

 

[garee]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

I would offer it is showing us God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form he can use a unbeliever to perform his will just as easily as one who is known by Christ. He did not say the works were not done But I never knew you.

In the old testament he used a unclean beast of the field, Balaam's ass to represent a unbeliever. The Ass must be redeemed with a lamb or break its neck to indicate the judgment of God. The words he puts on the lips of the beast cast out the lies of the false prophet as a miracle done in His name.

Again simply God is not served by the things seen. We walk by faith the unseen eternal

 

[p_rehbein]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

Context is everything:

Matthew, Chapter 7:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Self explanatory if one reads in context, and does not cherry pick one verse out of the passage.

John, Chapter 15:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Again, self explanatory when one reads in context the whole passage of Scripture. As well, when one reads both passages from Matthew and John, one can understand how they are joined and how they differ.

When beginning to seek the meaning of the Word, first start by praying that the Holy Spirit will impart understanding to you, just as Christ said He would. One of His purposes is to teach us the meaning of the Word......... Sincere prayer with a contrite heart, and leaning on the Holy Spirit for understanding will reduce the need to ask other men the meaning of the Word.

(my thoughts)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

"The kingdom of heaven" is one of many, names that the church Jesus set up is called. Others are the church of God, the church of the first born, the church in the wilderness, the The church of Christ, and many more.

 

[posthuman]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

the first thing i think of here is wood, hay and stubble -- 1 Corinthians 3 -- in the end any works without quietness & trust in Christ amount to nothing, tho for a time they may appear to be something.
a broken off branch with a bud on it may still flower, but it uses up what sap was within it, and withers. a branch still attached to the tree buds, and blooms, and thrives, because it isn't using its own strength, but what it is given by the root.

even plowing of the wicked is sin.

amen

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

yes

not only this, but also the seed that fell on rocky ground, and flourished, but having no root, passed away in a season -- Matthew 13

 

[posthuman]

Notice the false brethren point to signs and wonders but they do not talk about winning souls and are found to be sinners.
Their power comes from Satan and he decieves them appearing as an angel of light.

some also talk about 'winning souls' as trophies, and it's no different than mighty ((according to what man calls 'mighty')) works in the name of the God they never knew. some look at a list of 'people they saved' forgetting Who it was who is actually doing the calling and the saving, and they are as Nebuchadnezzar looking out saying with vanity in their hearts, is this not the work of my own hands?

so even if there exist 'works' and 'greater works' it's not just 'the wrong works' IMO -- each is given gifts through one Spirit as a body with many parts. it's the publican who dared not lift his head in the temple, who went home justified, because he boasted of nothing, but considered himself aright, and looked for the Lord's mercy. this humility is conspicuously absent in the argument of those in Matthew 7 whom He never knew.

in the scripture, God moved when people plead, 'for the sake of your name, LORD, in whom we have trusted!' and they were put to shame when they said, 'we have the temple! the temple!' and 'we have the ark! the ark!' -- this also links to Ai, contrasting with Jericho.

 

[RickStudies]

some also talk about 'winning souls' as trophies, and it's no different than mighty ((according to what man calls 'mighty')) works in the name of the God they never knew. some look at a list of 'people they saved' forgetting Who it was who is actually doing the calling and the saving, and they are as Nebuchadnezzar looking out saying with vanity in their hearts, is this not the work of my own hands?

so even if there exist 'works' and 'greater works' it's not just 'the wrong works' IMO -- each is given gifts through one Spirit as a body with many parts. it's the publican who dared not lift his head in the temple, who went home justified, because he boasted of nothing, but considered himself aright, and looked for the Lord's mercy. this humility is conspicuously absent in the argument of those in Matthew 7 whom He never knew.

in the scripture, God moved when people plead, 'for the sake of your name, LORD, in whom we have trusted!' and they were put to shame when they said, 'we have the temple! the temple!' and 'we have the ark! the ark!' -- this also links to Ai, contrasting with Jericho.

I don`t think false brethren can win souls. It`s not on the list of their works. I`m sure they are able to add to the ranks of the religeous.
The times in my life when I`ve been effective in sharing Jesus I knew God was doing it and could feel it in my heart. When that doesn`t happen I can`t do anything. Kinda like round this place

 

[garee]

I don`t think false brethren can win souls. It`s not on the list of their works. I`m sure they are able to add to the ranks of the religeous.
The times in my life when I`ve been effective in sharing Jesus I knew God was doing it and could feel it in my heart. When that doesn`t happen I can`t do anything. Kinda like round this place

I think it is more about God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form protecting his dignity not as a man. We understand God by the unseen things using the things seen as a source of faith. . . a comparison, a parable.

His name is jealous. In that way he will not share the glory of a new creation with corrupted clay, "our bodies of death". We can bring the gospel, plant the spiritual seed and water it with the doctrines of God .But if there is any life and growth it is not attributed to human hands believers or non beleivers.

Christ alone was crucified as the father poured out the wrath of mankind on the Son. The Son crying out he was strengthened to finish the work of salvation. He is not divided

The Holy Spirit uses a historically true parable hiding the gospel understanding. Using a unclean animal to represent un believers (no faith) as natural unconverted man.

When the ass was born a lamb must be sacrificed to redeem the unclean animal the neck is to be broken. God in effect put the seed of his word on the mouth of a unbelievers using a ass .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.


That work of God words working in a creature a Ass that is sometimes called the beast of burden again was used in a parable to represent un redeemed mankind it as it is written stopped the madness of Balaam the false prophet . Showing us he is not served by human hands. (Acts 17).

In that way we bring out the gospel in a hope he will apply it to their hearts. If he does not apply His grace and we suffer loss. . it is just loss of the hope we had in the good works we offered towards his authority to create a new heart. nothing to do with our salvation. But the better thing that accompanies salvation, the power by which we can offer good works .

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister .Hebrews 6:9-10

God simply will not share his hidden glory with the clay. The man in Mathew 7 is used to represent all of mankind He simply was not known of Christ. The wonderful works of the Holy Spirit could of been performed .In pride mankind fell.

“He is the God who made the whole world and everything in it. He is the Lord of the land and the sky. He does not live in temples built by human hands. He is the one who gives people life, breath, and everything else they need. He does not need any help from them. He has everything he needs. God began by making one man, and from him he made all the different people who live everywhere in the world. He decided exactly when and where they would live.Acts 17:24-26

 

[posthuman]

I don`t think false brethren can win souls

only God saves. Proverbs 11:30 isn't about securing salvation of another's soul - that's the Lord's work.
in the way that you use the phrase 'win souls' - with your definition - i don't think anyone can win souls.

 

[RickStudies]

only God saves. Proverbs 11:30 isn't about securing salvation of another's soul - that's the Lord's work.
in the way that you use the phrase 'win souls' - with your definition - i don't think anyone can win souls.

We almost had a good dialogue going and then you have to say something like this. You loped off most of what I said in order to isolate this sentence to try and zing me.

The phrase "Soul Winning" is just an old expression among zealous evangelicals like me.

 

[Jackson123]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

That make confuse me to. A Lot of people believe they are save and not. If you read matt 25, Jesus say simmilar, a Lot of people surprise, they think they are save but Jesus say depart from me i don't know you


Matt 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yet our Father will use what is not to bring down that which is. He willjuistify the ungodly...….I believe that latter is referring to the repented…...ññand so it goes.

 

[Lightskin]

...ññand so it goes.

I don’t understand.

 

[JaumeJ]

typo code....

 

[Grandpa]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

There is only one way to do the will of the Father in Heaven. This is by abiding in Christ and producing fruit the Father desires.

Those who know the Lord know this. They wouldn't point to their own works and say "This is why I deserve to be in Heaven".

They would point to the promises of God and ask "Haven't I trusted in you Lord?". Didn't you say you would never leave me nor forsake me? Didn't you say that your sheep hear your voice and you GIVE them eternal life? Didn't you say that Salvation was your gift and that it was not from our work?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord! Lord! Will enter the kingdom of heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply I never knew you. Get away for me, you will break God’s laws. Matthew 7:21-24

“Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

I am confused by these two scriptures. In John 5 we see Jesus saying that we can do nothing apart from him, and yet in Matthew 7 we see people doing many great things, apparently without Jesus in their hearts. Any ideas on what to make of this? I don’t know what to make of it and appreciate any guidance.

The Kingdom of Heaven is just another, of many, names that the church that Jesus set up is called.