Why I believe the Great Tribulation started in 70 A.D.
- Thread starter GaryA
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The 'Day of the Lord' is two things (which one depends on context, but mostly the second one listed here) -- the 1000-years of the reign of Christ on the earth - and, the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years - which is the [day of the] Return of Christ. (i.e. - the first day of the Second Coming of Christ)
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I ran across his today while driving and listening to the Bible.
Zep 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
Zep 1:8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
How does this fit with your view? What is the sacrifice and who are the guests?
If you like, you can reply at the thread I started earlier so as to not derail your thread.
Like I said, I just discovered this passage today and would like to know how it fits into every bodies end times scenario.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/day-of-the-lord-the-sacrifice.187246/#post-4022050
Zep 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
Zep 1:8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
How does this fit with your view? What is the sacrifice and who are the guests?
If you like, you can reply at the thread I started earlier so as to not derail your thread.
Like I said, I just discovered this passage today and would like to know how it fits into every bodies end times scenario.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/day-of-the-lord-the-sacrifice.187246/#post-4022050
This illustrates something that people often don't understand...
The fact that you included the statement in bold above tells me two things:
~ Your "know it already" statement is not really true; because, what I am suggesting in this thread is not what you were certain it would be.
~ Your mind is "stuck" on the GT being a short period of time such that - upon seeing a statement suggesting the GT started in 70 A.D. - you assumed that I must believe "the GT is over" and we are well into the 1000-year reign of Christ.
The fact is - I believe in the physical-presence reign of Christ on the earth - which does not begin until He returns - which is still future.
I am not writing this to "pick on you"; rather, only to make a point about how people sometimes assume that certain ideas "automatically must go together" when in reality they do not.
IF you pay very close attention to how the Bible "defines" the start of the GT and the end of the GT - and - you look closely at the "details" surrounding those "definitions" - and - you are able to "let go" of the things you have "learned" (that are full of assumptions) about the End Times Scenario -- you WILL discover that the futurist and preterist views are both in error - because neither fully matches all of the "details" completely.
I am trying my best to help folks on here understand how that - the only way all of the "details" actually match in scripture is if the GT is a long period of time that started circa 70 A.D. and ends in the future.
This is why people assume that it must all be future or past - because, they refuse to examine all of the "details" exactly as scripture records them. Instead, they prefer to clutch tightly onto what they were taught, making assumptions about things that scripture does not actually say.
The fact that you included the statement in bold above tells me two things:
~ Your "know it already" statement is not really true; because, what I am suggesting in this thread is not what you were certain it would be.
~ Your mind is "stuck" on the GT being a short period of time such that - upon seeing a statement suggesting the GT started in 70 A.D. - you assumed that I must believe "the GT is over" and we are well into the 1000-year reign of Christ.
The fact is - I believe in the physical-presence reign of Christ on the earth - which does not begin until He returns - which is still future.
I am not writing this to "pick on you"; rather, only to make a point about how people sometimes assume that certain ideas "automatically must go together" when in reality they do not.
IF you pay very close attention to how the Bible "defines" the start of the GT and the end of the GT - and - you look closely at the "details" surrounding those "definitions" - and - you are able to "let go" of the things you have "learned" (that are full of assumptions) about the End Times Scenario -- you WILL discover that the futurist and preterist views are both in error - because neither fully matches all of the "details" completely.
I am trying my best to help folks on here understand how that - the only way all of the "details" actually match in scripture is if the GT is a long period of time that started circa 70 A.D. and ends in the future.
This is why people assume that it must all be future or past - because, they refuse to examine all of the "details" exactly as scripture records them. Instead, they prefer to clutch tightly onto what they were taught, making assumptions about things that scripture does not actually say.
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People are going to believe what they want to believe. Just make sure you adopt an attitude that wants to know and believe the actual bona fide real truth - "even if it hurts"...
EDIT: This is the only way you are going to properly understand the actual bona fide real truth. And, you have to want it badly enough...
EDIT: This is the only way you are going to properly understand the actual bona fide real truth. And, you have to want it badly enough...
Not in this thread, silly - it is focused on the start of it being ~70 A.D.; however, I have mentioned that I believe the end of it is future - and marked by the appearance of the Two Witnesses and the beginning of the Trumpet events.
EDIT: Not that it would hurt anything to discuss it in this thread; only, it was not part of the original intent for this thread.
EDIT: Not that it would hurt anything to discuss it in this thread; only, it was not part of the original intent for this thread.
How does that line up with Matthew 24:21? It looks to me like your view has the great tribulation ending and then even worse tribulation starting at the trumpet events.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
@GaryA
This last bit of our conversation has really helped me a lot. I realize now that the time of great tribulation - great trouble or suffering, ENDS and THEN the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven.
This is proof positive that the sun, moon and stars falling from heaven ARE NOT literal entities, they represent Israel and the kingdom being taken away from them and given to another nation.
This last bit of our conversation has really helped me a lot. I realize now that the time of great tribulation - great trouble or suffering, ENDS and THEN the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven.
This is proof positive that the sun, moon and stars falling from heaven ARE NOT literal entities, they represent Israel and the kingdom being taken away from them and given to another nation.