Galatian Conundrums

[Absolutely]

Luke 24:47

Paul was not raised by God to continue the Great Commission. But I know you will disagree with that, so let's us agree to disagree.

See that is said through the prism of Jesus preaching "another gospel".

The paulines poo poo the gospels claiming Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" while only Paul preached the gospel of grace,

Pure baloney, as Paul also preached the kingdom of God.
And as I have shown,peter had the first revelation of the gospel to the gentiles.

 

[Absolutely]

That is incorrect, and the book of Acts shows the reverse. Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria were covered by the apostles and their companions. Paul covered the Roman empire, and other apostles went to the uttermost parts of the earth.

Yep the church was scattered early on.
1 Peter was written from babylon

 

[Guojing]

So we see paul and peter at the same meeting with Peter doing the teaching and instructing of the Gospel to the gentiles.

Debunking thoroughly the idea that peter had no revelation concerning the gospel to the gentiles.

Let me grant you the premise that, by the time Acts 15 came about, Peter had the complete revelation of that gospel of grace, that Paul called "my gospel".

But what gospel was Peter preaching from Matthew-John, for example in Luke 9:6?

Was it that "gospel of grace" that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again for their justification?

 

[RickStudies]

See that is said through the prism of Jesus preaching "another gospel".

The paulines poo poo the gospels claiming Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" while only Paul preached the gospel of grace,

Pure baloney, as Paul also preached the kingdom of God.
And as I have shown,peter had the first revelation of the gospel to the gentiles.

Only thing you show is your own incompetence. The conversion of Paul and his beginning to preach, Acts 9 pre dates Peter`s dream Acts 10.

 

[RickStudies]

acts 15


So we see paul and peter at the same meeting with Peter doing the teaching and instructing of the Gospel to the gentiles.

Debunking thoroughly the idea that peter had no revelation concerning the gospel to the gentiles.

Again you don`t know what you`re talking about. There are no Gentiles at the meeting and Peter isn`t teaching anything.
They are deciding whether or not to make the Gentiles keep the Law and become Proselytes.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul was not raised by God to continue the Great Commission.

Since the Great Commission includes preaching Christ and Him crucified, you are inventing your own theology here.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

But Barnabas took him [Paul], and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he [Paul] had seen the Lord in the way, and that He had spoken to him [Paul], and how he [Paul] had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. (Acts 9:27)

And how I [Paul] kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)

 

[Guojing]

Since the Great Commission includes preaching Christ and Him crucified, you are inventing your own theology here.

Interestingly, you highlighted the wrong part of Luke 24:47. You are suppose to take note of the, beginning at Jerusalem.

My point was that to properly fulfill the GC as spelt out in Luke, the 12 needed to make sure Israel as a nation, accept their Messiah, before they can move out to reach the Gentiles.

You don't want to accept this view, because it conflicts with what you have been taught. So when people show you scripture, you are going to focus on other aspects instead. We have already debated about this before in the following thread.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...mission-irrelevant-for-the-church-now.182210/

That is fine, as I have said, to believe in the distinction in the 2 gospels, is not essential for salvation. God bless.

 

[Guojing]

so what did He mean by go into all the world and preach THE (not half a dozen) gospel....

you know, I get irritated when I read such utter nonsense from people who appear to believe they have something of merit to add concerning scripture but instead create confusion for those who are possibly just learning or the gullible

for example, what Jesus said to his disciples...clearly clearly He did not mean for all time. it was the specific period during which He was on earth before His death and resurrection

otherwise, He would not ever have said GO INTO ALL THE WORLD

do you suppose the Creator did not know the actual size or population of the world?

actually, no, no one should accept your particular brand of misunderstanding

you should not be handling scripture and telling others to accept what you say

Another example of how terms like "all nations", "all the world" etc are understood in the Greek language. Paul said in Colossians 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV)

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Here Paul is claiming that "all the world" has heard the gospel. Surely he cannot literally mean everyone on Earth, since places in Asia, Africa and America have not been explored yet during his lifetime.

 

[PERFECTION]

nope,the vision was that the gospel was also given to the gentiles. peter was the first to receive the revelation of the gospel to be preached to the gentiles.

acts 11;
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.

12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

I was speaking of Peters refusal in the beginning to accept that the Jews were no longer under the law.
He preached Christ but He was very stubborn when it came to issues such as circumcision along with other laws.
It took a stiff rebuke from Paul to replace order.
Also Peter had much trouble believing that the gentiles are brought into the same fold as the Jews.
It took Jesus Himself coming to Paul in a vision in order to change his heart.

All of this was never a question of whether Peter was called as an apostle and was highly favored by Christ Himself, but Peter was stubborn and caused much difficulty for the other apostles.

In the end however we understand that Peter achieved the highest honor of the apostles ......He became a martyr for Christ.

Compared to what the apostles went through I have a life of ease. I often wonder, if I had been there and I was called to be among these great men?????.. Too much to think about.

 

[RickStudies]

I was speaking of Peters refusal in the beginning to accept that the Jews were no longer under the law.
He preached Christ but He was very stubborn when it came to issues such as circumcision along with other laws.
It took a stiff rebuke from Paul to replace order.
Also Peter had much trouble believing that the gentiles are brought into the same fold as the Jews.
It took Jesus Himself coming to Paul in a vision in order to change his heart.

All of this was never a question of whether Peter was called as an apostle and was highly favored by Christ Himself, but Peter was stubborn and caused much difficulty for the other apostles.

In the end however we understand that Peter achieved the highest honor of the apostles ......He became a martyr for Christ.

Compared to what the apostles went through I have a life of ease. I often wonder, if I had been there and I was called to be among these great men?????.. Too much to think about.

It was Peter who argued for release of Gentiles from the Law. Imagine the hardness of the issue for other followers of Jesus all Law keepers.

 

[Nehemiah6]

My point was that to properly fulfill the GC as spelt out in Luke, the 12 needed to make sure Israel as a nation, accept their Messiah, before they can move out to reach the Gentiles.

That is false. To fulfil the Great Commission it was simply necessary to preach the Gospel to all the Jews in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. And this was indeed accomplished as we can see in the book of Acts. Not all believed, but all did hear the Gospel.

Since the outset of your posting you have shown that you really do not understand the Great Commission, and how it was given to the apostles and now it is still given to the Church (the Body of Christ) until the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[RickStudies]

That is false. To fulfil the Great Commission it was simply necessary to preach the Gospel to all the Jews in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. And this was indeed accomplished as we can see in the book of Acts. Not all believed, but all did hear the Gospel.

Since the outset of your posting you have shown that you really do not understand the Great Commission, and how it was given to the apostles and now it is still given to the Church (the Body of Christ) until the Second Coming of Christ.

What are your thoughts on Colossians 1:23? Seems to say the "Great Commission" was fulfilled.

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am not telling others to accept what I am saying. I already stated that believing in this distinction is not necessary to be a Christian. You are fine if you don't accept it.

One point I would like to raise where the Bible translates the Greek into this term "all nations". May I suggest that the meaning is not exactly the same when we understood it in English.

Let me give you an example from Luke 2:1 KJV

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Young's version goes

And it came to pass in those days, there went forth a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world be enrolled

I am presenting a view that when we read "all the nations" in the Matthew version of the GC, it may not mean exactly what we think it means in the English. It could point towards "all the known Jews in the Roman Empire".

Of course, you could be correct, I am not denying that possibility. I am saying there could be another possible explanation, that every Jew at that time have a different idea from you about what preaching to "all nations" really meant.

the big problem is that you are not correct. I am not worried about myself..when I see such a mashup of scripture like yourself and the op have going on, my concern is for those who are young in the faith or have not actually studied as they should hav e

as far as all nations goes, like I said, was that a mystery to God? He didn't know what the earth He created existed of? I don't care about Young's version....'all the world' means all the known world. perhaps if you took a look into history you would understand that

well at least you admit there could be another understanding

since we are all sitting at our laptop's or pc's in the 21st C and the gospel has and is still going out into 'all the world' it would be the fullfillment of 'all the (literal in this case) world

 

[Guojing]

the big problem is that you are not correct. I am not worried about myself..when I see such a mashup of scripture like yourself and the op have going on, my concern is for those who are young in the faith or have not actually studied as they should hav e

as far as all nations goes, like I said, was that a mystery to God? He didn't know what the earth He created existed of? I don't care about Young's version....'all the world' means all the known world. perhaps if you took a look into history you would understand that

well at least you admit there could be another understanding

since we are all sitting at our laptop's or pc's in the 21st C and the gospel has and is still going out into 'all the world' it would be the fullfillment of 'all the (literal in this case) world

You are understanding the term “all the world” in her English meaning, but the Greek term that led to that term, if you view the context from the various scripture I provided, have a different meaning.

Again if you don’t want to accept that, I am fine. It’s not essential to salvation, we are all reasoning in part here.

 

[Guojing]

That is false. To fulfil the Great Commission it was simply necessary to preach the Gospel to all the Jews in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. And this was indeed accomplished as we can see in the book of Acts. Not all believed, but all did hear the Gospel.

Since the outset of your posting you have shown that you really do not understand the Great Commission, and how it was given to the apostles and now it is still given to the Church (the Body of Christ) until the Second Coming of Christ.

Many prophecies in the Kingdom program for Israel are dependent on the Jewish nation accepting their King before they can happen. I would think all the Jews then, who have been taught the OT since they were young, would have understood them.

Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”


Zechariah 8 explains

3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)

20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

Finally, when Jesus was on Earth, he also said this to the Samaritan woman

John 4:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.

 

[Guojing]

I was speaking of Peters refusal in the beginning to accept that the Jews were no longer under the law.
He preached Christ but He was very stubborn when it came to issues such as circumcision along with other laws.
It took a stiff rebuke from Paul to replace order.
Also Peter had much trouble believing that the gentiles are brought into the same fold as the Jews.
It took Jesus Himself coming to Paul in a vision in order to change his heart.

All of this was never a question of whether Peter was called as an apostle and was highly favored by Christ Himself, but Peter was stubborn and caused much difficulty for the other apostles.

In the end however we understand that Peter achieved the highest honor of the apostles ......He became a martyr for Christ.

Compared to what the apostles went through I have a life of ease. I often wonder, if I had been there and I was called to be among these great men?????.. Too much to think about.

Actually, James the brother of Jesus was even more stubborn than Peter. Acts 21, and his James chapter 2 says it all.

 

[Absolutely]

Another example of how terms like "all nations", "all the world" etc are understood in the Greek language. Paul said in Colossians 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV)

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Here Paul is claiming that "all the world" has heard the gospel. Surely he cannot literally mean everyone on Earth, since places in Asia, Africa and America have not been explored yet during his lifetime.

...and those teaching you got their platform on shaky ground.

1)they were forbidden to go into asia. So the idea that paul and the Holy Spirit thought "the whole world" was europe and arabia is rediculous.
2) There is no smoking gun by the apostles starting in Jerusalem.
3) there are no 2 gospel separate messages. 1 message salvation through Jesus.
4) the paulines declare Jesus preached the kingdom,while paul preached grace. Yet it says Paul preached the kingdom of God.
5) and finally paul cursed any gospel other than that which he himself preached.

So if we say Jesus preached another gospel,we also need to say Paul detested and cursed Jesus's gospel.

 

[RickStudies]

...and those teaching you got their platform on shaky ground.

1)they were forbidden to go into asia. So the idea that paul and the Holy Spirit thought "the whole world" was europe and arabia is rediculous.
2) There is no smoking gun by the apostles starting in Jerusalem.
3) there are no 2 gospel separate messages. 1 message salvation through Jesus.
4) the paulines declare Jesus preached the kingdom,while paul preached grace. Yet it says Paul preached the kingdom of God.
5) and finally paul cursed any gospel other than that which he himself preached.

So if we say Jesus preached another gospel,we also need to say Paul detested and cursed Jesus's gospel.

Denying the scripture you`ve been given doesn`t prove your case.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Another example of how terms like "all nations", "all the world" etc are understood in the Greek language. Paul said in Colossians 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV)

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Here Paul is claiming that "all the world" has heard the gospel. Surely he cannot literally mean everyone on Earth, since places in Asia, Africa and America have not been explored yet during his lifetime.

LOL!

no he isn't

he is saying it is being proclaimed in all the world

you people are a riot

you are forcing scripture into your own theology and it does not fit and will never fit

I'm laughing here because it is so ridiculous, but again, I am not laughing should a new Christian or one not well studied come across this nonsense of yours and the op's

if you are just discussing this here that is one thing, but if you are out in the real world and actually this, as the op appears to be doing?

y'all are going to have alot to answer for

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Denying the scripture you`ve been given doesn`t prove your case.

dude

you have been given scripture as have we all, 66 books actually

you, do not give it

you have made a mess of what you have been given