Thief on the Cross

[bluto]

I will continue to answer questions. If that annoys you just place me on ignore.

As I mentioned in a previous post:
The religious leaders of Jesus' day refused water baptism. The scripture actually states that by doing so they refused the counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

Well that's good to know that you will continue to ask questions? And so what about the religious leaders of Jesus' day refusing water baptism. What's more important them refusing water baptism or refusing to asknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah?

Do you want to know that's really ironic? The last act Jesus did on that cross was to save the theif without him getting baptized. Then at the start of Jesus' ministry the first thing He does is get water baptized, why? He was not a sinner, He did not need to repent so why did He get baptized?

Matthew 3:15 says, "Permit it this time; for this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Do you know what that means? By submitting to John's baptism Jesus is demonstrating that He is a good and obedient Son who does His Fathers will perfectly. Also notice Jesus used the word "us" in the verse which includes John.

Also notice at Matthew 3:17, "and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." So here His Father is giving Jesus His blessing at the start of His ministry. Now, what were the very last words of Jesus at Matthew 28:19-20? "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Making disciples first and then baptizing them) Vs20, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you, always, even to the end of the age."

So the point or should I say one of the points is the fact that a disciple is already saved he is then baptized to show He is a follower of Jesus Christ. Again, an outward sign of an inward grace demonstrating he is working for the Lord God.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[User46952]

Jesus said "... the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins ..." (matthew 9.6; mark 2.10; luke 5.24)
So He might have forgiven the sins of thief.

 

[cv5]

I will continue to answer questions. If that annoys you just place me on ignore.

As I mentioned in a previous post:
The religious leaders of Jesus' day refused water baptism. The scripture actually states that by doing so they refused the counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

You are fiddling the wrong tune Wansvic…...

Rom 2:29
"But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."

 

[Wansvic]

What was said is in one sentence.

when John was baptizing the people, they didn’t have to repeat it when Jesus came preaching the kingdom is near.

Please refer to Acts 19:1-6.

 

[Melach]

but why would salvation be more difficult now than in o.t times? i thought this covenant was supposed to be better not worse? that doesnt make much sense. now its so many step process and difficult.

have faith
repent
be baptized in water (in Jesus' name you say)
be baptized in Holy Spirit (how?)
speak in tongues (okay how to know who is faking under peer pressure to fit in, most i say)
remain holy for rest of life and you make it

sounds like lots of works.

 

[Wansvic]

"Johns Baptism" didn't exist prior to John..

So who was it for, and why?

John's Baptism did differ but we can see it's significance upon study of how the high priest Aaron and his sons were initiated into the office via a cleansing from head to toe in the Old Testament. Each of us are considered part of the priesthood; therefore we must follow the example left to us by Jesus our high priest. (1 Peter 2:9)

Jesus told John that water baptism was to be done to fulfil all righteousness. (Matt 3:13-15) Afterward, the bible record shows that the disciples administered water baptism to everyone who pursued salvation. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers )

 

[Wansvic]

Do you even know the difference between the baptism of John and Christian baptism?

Since you do not even understand what Christian baptism is all about, you actually need a primer on baptism. So you should be asking questions instead of answering them. Or should we produce a *catechism* about water baptism?

And yes it is extremely annoying when people continue to promote false doctrines to lead others astray. Christ and the apostles had some harsh things to say about false teachers.

The only thing that differs between John's and Christian baptism is the use of Jesus' name because He is the one whose burial and resurrection we are identifying with.
See post 206 it refers to content found in Exodus 40:11-14.

 

[JamOn]

Please refer to Acts 19:1-6.

Yes thanks for pointing that out, you see at the time they didn’t have a fully formed bible as we have today.
What you read in acts is quoting what John said, at that moment

read what verse 5 says upon hearing it.

placed Matthew which Paul was speaking about.

1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.

4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

 

[Wansvic]

in your next sentence I do agree, his primary ministry was preaching the gospel so the ones who heard the word the way to salvation and believed was enough.

Clearly one person doesn't always assist people with complying in obedience to the commands given upon hearing the entire message of Jesus. This concept is seen in the bible and also in today's churches as well. Example: Philip shared the gospel and water baptized those in Samaria but John and Peter had to come later and assist them in receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:4-14)

 

[JamOn]

Clearly one person doesn't always assist people with complying in obedience to the commands given upon hearing the entire message of Jesus. This concept is seen in the bible and also in today's churches as well. Example: Philip shared the gospel and water baptized those in Samaria but John and Peter had to come later and assist them in receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:4-14)

can’t put the cart in front of the horse is what they were doing.

 

[tourist]

Jesus said "... the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins ..." (matthew 9.6; mark 2.10; luke 5.24)
So He might have forgiven the sins of thief.

He most certainly did and payed the price for such sins.

 

[JamOn]

John's Baptism did differ but we can see it's significance upon study of how the high priest Aaron and his sons were initiated into the office via a cleansing from head to toe in the Old Testament. Each of us are considered part of the priesthood; therefore we must follow the example left to us by Jesus our high priest. (1 Peter 2:9)

Jesus told John that water baptism was to be done to fulfil all righteousness. (Matt 3:13-15) Afterward, the bible record shows that the disciples administered water baptism to everyone who pursued salvation. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers )

Yes the disciples did baptize what is your opinion on why Jesus did not administer water baptism himself?

 

[garee]

Interesting questions geree, what do you think about Adam and Eve not receiving the gift of faith?

Scripture is not clear on that. The first recorded. . . He looked with favor on Abel. A way of saying bestowing grace and mercy working as one. He did not look with favor upon Cain ..The first recorded murderer who murdered his brother the first recorded martyr.

 

[garee]

Yes the disciples did baptize what is your opinion on why Jesus did not administer water baptism himself?

He baptize others.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26

Answer the question it becomes apparent why?

 

[JamOn]

Scripture is not clear on that. The first recorded. . . He looked with favor on Abel. A way of saying bestowing grace and mercy working as one. He did not look with favor upon Cain ..The first recorded murderer who murdered his brother the first recorded martyr.

Is faith life?

 

[JamOn]

He baptize others.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26

Answer the question it becomes apparent why?

Yes and there was a certain Jew.

John 4
1When Jesus realized that the Pharisees were aware that He was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John 2(although it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples), 3He left Judea and returned to Galilee.

 

[bluto]

The only thing that differs between John's and Christian baptism is the use of Jesus' name because He is the one whose burial and resurrection we are identifying with.
See post 206 it refers to content found in Exodus 40:11-14.

Your contradicting yourself wansvic? When I said and others have said that water baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace you ask where is this in the Bible? I showed how in my last post to you. So the questions is, why are you now agreeing that when one is water baptized he is identifying with the burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Since it is true that one is identifying with Jesus Christ by being water baptized notice it is "after" one is saved or has put his faith in our Savior. You also mentioned Acts 19, so let's look at it. Paul explained that John's baptism was only preparatory, a baptism of repentance, that is, a baptism that testifed to their repentance, see Luke 7:30. And John refused to baptize those who did not repent. Matthew 3:7-8. So what does John tell the people, they should believe in the Coming One, Jesus.

This is the same point Paul is saying at Acts 19:4, "And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to BELIEVE in Him/Jesus Christ who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." So having heard, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, making Him Lord of their lives. At vs2 Paul says, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said to him, No, we have not even heard of whether there is a Holy Spirit."

The bottom line is the fact that these believers were baptized under John's baptism which is just like I stated was only preparatory testifying of their repentance. So Paul lays his hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit and began speaking with tongues and prophesying in the same manner as Cornelius at Acts 10:46. Case closed.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Wansvic]

What was said is in one sentence.

when John was baptizing the people, they didn’t have to repeat it when Jesus came preaching the kingdom is near.

Jesus would have only mentioned belief if that was all that was required.

 

[Wansvic]

in your next sentence I do agree, his primary ministry was preaching the gospel so the ones who heard the word the way to salvation and believed was enough.

Preaching the need for water baptism would have been included in the gospel message. Administering water baptism was at some times done by him (Acts 19) and by others on some occasions.

 

[Wansvic]

But if your doctrine was true, then baptism would ALSO be his primary ministry. After all no one would get saved without H2O.

Do you see that you created your own trap?

Preaching the need for water baptism and administering it are two different things.