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Ahem may I step in here, SIR SIR!
On behalf of the calvinist club, mr ForestGreenCook(ed) does NOT represent reformed theology.
He has some weird teaching where even idolaters who believe in happy hunting grounds in the afterlife are saved. Makes a big deal out of deliverance here on the earth compared to eternal deliverance. Hardshell baptists is what they call them. FEW and FAR between and for a good reason!
On behalf of the calvinist club, mr ForestGreenCook(ed) does NOT represent reformed theology.
He has some weird teaching where even idolaters who believe in happy hunting grounds in the afterlife are saved. Makes a big deal out of deliverance here on the earth compared to eternal deliverance. Hardshell baptists is what they call them. FEW and FAR between and for a good reason!
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I do agree with you then. Once we have been born again, and as long as we walk in the Spirit we are not carnal, however, none of us can walk in the Spirit continually, only Jesus could without sinning, but because of our fleshly nature, we do sometimes yield our bodies to lust after the things of the world which makes it necessary for us to repent in order to regain our fellowship with God.
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I believe our carnality, our fleshly condition, points to why we need Him within and that hopefully as a true believer, sanctification leads us to more of Him and less of flesh. Will we ever completely be beyond our limit of physicality. I do not think it possible. In Him, however, all things are possible, so we have hope....😀🙏❤
Lot did not have the HS to help sanctify Him away from his carnality. He had Abraham, though. He was blessed. His wife not so much.
Lot did not have the HS to help sanctify Him away from his carnality. He had Abraham, though. He was blessed. His wife not so much.
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First and foremost I am not really in the habbit of declaring who is saved and who is not. Not my purpose. If their spirit hasn't been supernaturally resurrected by grace, through faith in Jesus the Christ then they are not a Christian. If you haven't been born again and call yourself Christian then yes you are a false convert. Really, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", are you asking if I think everybody that calls themself Christian is a Christian just because they say they are, then no I don't. I tend to believe Jesus before anybody else and Jesus says
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, tI do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
And
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and then here Jesus clearly tells us we will know the tree by the fruit,
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I believe this all strongly supports the agreed on fact that when you are born again into Christ then you are a changed being, and you cannot be a good tree producing bad fruit, co if you are still carnel just like you were before Jesus then you may want to seriously reevaluate your salvation. I am NOT saying that everyone changes in the same ways, or same timeframes, and God works in each one of us custom and I can't sit here and say a Christian has to be a, b, and c and follow this set of things, but what I can say is that Jesus changes you and if there is no change, it's my strong opinion there is no real Jesus or conversion, clear enough? I've talked to you enough you should know what I believe, are you just trying to be argumentative or something? What about you, do you think everyone is saved who merely says "I want Jesus in my heart", just because the music made them feel good one time when they were 8 at a camp? Then never thinking about it again? Does the Jesus you know have the power that knocks mans socks off like mine does, the Jesus I serve changes 30 year long heroin addicts overnight, the Jesus I serves destroys all deception and changes the hearts of me, so when you come with these questions as if you have no clue what I believe I have to conclude 2 things, first you seem to have a weak Jesus that just saves you to leave you in your sin, and I say that because of your constant and frantic defence of sinning Christian that have no change. Anytime this subject pops up you sweep in to affirm the weakness of God by proclaiming how God saves people to keep them in their sin, and how the power of God to NOT change is great.
I doubt you even realize you come off this way, but you do. You preach a weak Jesus that saves you and maybe changes you, but maybe not.
That's not the Jesus that saved me brother. See unlike you I listen when we've talked in the past so I know where you're coming from. You came from a legalistic background that heaped burden on you until the day Jesus freed you, and praise His name for that. It CHANGED you, and you now walk with Him, this is truth, this is how it works, and if your tree is still producing bad fruit then guess what? It's still a bad tree.
Now to finally answer you main question, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", yes sadly I absolutely do, and I love them enough to bring up the things I wish people would have addressed when I was still in deception thinking just like you, "it's all good everyone is saved man". I think you could get a bit bolder with the truth, your softness in this area could send people to hell, comfortably deceived.
Please by all mean point out where I'm straying from Gods word here. I don't want to be deceived either, and also act like we've had a conversation before. I've told you what I believe, I think you just like teaching and "being right."
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, tI do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
And
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and then here Jesus clearly tells us we will know the tree by the fruit,
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I believe this all strongly supports the agreed on fact that when you are born again into Christ then you are a changed being, and you cannot be a good tree producing bad fruit, co if you are still carnel just like you were before Jesus then you may want to seriously reevaluate your salvation. I am NOT saying that everyone changes in the same ways, or same timeframes, and God works in each one of us custom and I can't sit here and say a Christian has to be a, b, and c and follow this set of things, but what I can say is that Jesus changes you and if there is no change, it's my strong opinion there is no real Jesus or conversion, clear enough? I've talked to you enough you should know what I believe, are you just trying to be argumentative or something? What about you, do you think everyone is saved who merely says "I want Jesus in my heart", just because the music made them feel good one time when they were 8 at a camp? Then never thinking about it again? Does the Jesus you know have the power that knocks mans socks off like mine does, the Jesus I serve changes 30 year long heroin addicts overnight, the Jesus I serves destroys all deception and changes the hearts of me, so when you come with these questions as if you have no clue what I believe I have to conclude 2 things, first you seem to have a weak Jesus that just saves you to leave you in your sin, and I say that because of your constant and frantic defence of sinning Christian that have no change. Anytime this subject pops up you sweep in to affirm the weakness of God by proclaiming how God saves people to keep them in their sin, and how the power of God to NOT change is great.
I doubt you even realize you come off this way, but you do. You preach a weak Jesus that saves you and maybe changes you, but maybe not.
That's not the Jesus that saved me brother. See unlike you I listen when we've talked in the past so I know where you're coming from. You came from a legalistic background that heaped burden on you until the day Jesus freed you, and praise His name for that. It CHANGED you, and you now walk with Him, this is truth, this is how it works, and if your tree is still producing bad fruit then guess what? It's still a bad tree. Now to finally answer you main question, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", yes sadly I absolutely do, and I love them enough to bring up the things I wish people would have addressed when I was still in deception thinking just like you, "it's all good everyone is saved man". I think you could get a bit bolder with the truth, your softness in this area could send people to hell, comfortably deceived.
Please by all mean point out where I'm straying from Gods word here. I don't want to be deceived either, and also act like we've had a conversation before. I've told you what I believe, I think you just like teaching and "being right."
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I really do not get the whole "carnal Christian" thing. Jesus says you are with Him or against Him, He never gave a third option. I think this term "carnal Christian" is really just trying to soften up a term for a false convert really. To give one who doesn't know Him a deceptive peace that can never last. I say this as a former false convert, I liked the idea of Jesus, I repeated the prayer and was even dunked under water, but did not know Him. I know I probably sound judgemental, or maybe even arrogant, but it terrifies me to think how many are just like me sitting in church, they think they are saved but do not know Him. Once you KNOW Him, once you are in Him you are changed forever, not just for a week or two, forever. You can KNOW God then kind of "unknow" Him. That's what I must testify as truth because I know firsthand that we can think we're saved and not be. I just want to warn others for their sakes and even more for His glory. We serve a real life God that changes us in real life and walks with us, oh I praise our Lord!!!
I proofread it twice and missed this, "You can KNOW God then kind of "unknow" Him.", it was CAN'T, you CAN'T know God and then kind of "unknow" Him.
E
First and foremost I am not really in the habbit of declaring who is saved and who is not. Not my purpose. If their spirit hasn't been supernaturally resurrected by grace, through faith in Jesus the Christ then they are not a Christian. If you haven't been born again and call yourself Christian then yes you are a false convert. Really, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", are you asking if I think everybody that calls themself Christian is a Christian just because they say they are, then no I don't. I tend to believe Jesus before anybody else and Jesus says
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, tI do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
And
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and then here Jesus clearly tells us we will know the tree by the fruit,
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I believe this all strongly supports the agreed on fact that when you are born again into Christ then you are a changed being, and you cannot be a good tree producing bad fruit, co if you are still carnel just like you were before Jesus then you may want to seriously reevaluate your salvation. I am NOT saying that everyone changes in the same ways, or same timeframes, and God works in each one of us custom and I can't sit here and say a Christian has to be a, b, and c and follow this set of things, but what I can say is that Jesus changes you and if there is no change, it's my strong opinion there is no real Jesus or conversion, clear enough? I've talked to you enough you should know what I believe, are you just trying to be argumentative or something? What about you, do you think everyone is saved who merely says "I want Jesus in my heart", just because the music made them feel good one time when they were 8 at a camp? Then never thinking about it again? Does the Jesus you know have the power that knocks mans socks off like mine does, the Jesus I serve changes 30 year long heroin addicts overnight, the Jesus I serves destroys all deception and changes the hearts of me, so when you come with these questions as if you have no clue what I believe I have to conclude 2 things, first you seem to have a weak Jesus that just saves you to leave you in your sin, and I say that because of your constant and frantic defence of sinning Christian that have no change. Anytime this subject pops up you sweep in to affirm the weakness of God by proclaiming how God saves people to keep them in their sin, and how the power of God to NOT change is great.
I doubt you even realize you come off this way, but you do. You preach a weak Jesus that saves you and maybe changes you, but maybe not. That's not the Jesus that saved me brother. See unlike you I listen when we've talked in the past so I know where you're coming from. You came from a legalistic background that heaped burden on you until the day Jesus freed you, and praise His name for that. It CHANGED you, and you now walk with Him, this is truth, this is how it works, and if your tree is still producing bad fruit then guess what? It's still a bad tree.
Now to finally answer you main question, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", yes sadly I absolutely do, and I love them enough to bring up the things I wish people would have addressed when I was still in deception thinking just like you, "it's all good everyone is saved man". I think you could get a bit bolder with the truth, your softness in this area could send people to hell, comfortably deceived.
Please by all mean point out where I'm straying from Gods word here. I don't want to be deceived either, and also act like we've had a conversation before. I've told you what I believe, I think you just like teaching and "being right."
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, tI do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
And
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
and then here Jesus clearly tells us we will know the tree by the fruit,
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I believe this all strongly supports the agreed on fact that when you are born again into Christ then you are a changed being, and you cannot be a good tree producing bad fruit, co if you are still carnel just like you were before Jesus then you may want to seriously reevaluate your salvation. I am NOT saying that everyone changes in the same ways, or same timeframes, and God works in each one of us custom and I can't sit here and say a Christian has to be a, b, and c and follow this set of things, but what I can say is that Jesus changes you and if there is no change, it's my strong opinion there is no real Jesus or conversion, clear enough? I've talked to you enough you should know what I believe, are you just trying to be argumentative or something? What about you, do you think everyone is saved who merely says "I want Jesus in my heart", just because the music made them feel good one time when they were 8 at a camp? Then never thinking about it again? Does the Jesus you know have the power that knocks mans socks off like mine does, the Jesus I serve changes 30 year long heroin addicts overnight, the Jesus I serves destroys all deception and changes the hearts of me, so when you come with these questions as if you have no clue what I believe I have to conclude 2 things, first you seem to have a weak Jesus that just saves you to leave you in your sin, and I say that because of your constant and frantic defence of sinning Christian that have no change. Anytime this subject pops up you sweep in to affirm the weakness of God by proclaiming how God saves people to keep them in their sin, and how the power of God to NOT change is great.
I doubt you even realize you come off this way, but you do. You preach a weak Jesus that saves you and maybe changes you, but maybe not.
That's not the Jesus that saved me brother. See unlike you I listen when we've talked in the past so I know where you're coming from. You came from a legalistic background that heaped burden on you until the day Jesus freed you, and praise His name for that. It CHANGED you, and you now walk with Him, this is truth, this is how it works, and if your tree is still producing bad fruit then guess what? It's still a bad tree.Now to finally answer you main question, "you consider lot a false believer and not really saved?", yes sadly I absolutely do, and I love them enough to bring up the things I wish people would have addressed when I was still in deception thinking just like you, "it's all good everyone is saved man". I think you could get a bit bolder with the truth, your softness in this area could send people to hell, comfortably deceived.
Please by all mean point out where I'm straying from Gods word here. I don't want to be deceived either, and also act like we've had a conversation before. I've told you what I believe, I think you just like teaching and "being right."
Can you give proof which proves lot was not saved? Especially since peter called him righteous, did peter lie?
As for me, I am just trying to discuss lot so please leave your personal attacks outside, they are not welcome.
I guess that I would say she failed herself, but perhaps as the leader he could've, should've, been more clear in insisting she NOT look back. Eve was guilty of eating from the forbidden tree, and held responsible. One could accuse adam for not being clear enough, for not being a good leader, but as far as her actions go, all of women kind are made heirs of her responsibility.
He does use her, Lot"s wife, to remind us not to look back. Maybe also demonstrating the importance of listening to her husband when He is following God. He tells us to remember her. In essence her memory is seasoned with useful and persevering potency.
He does use her, Lot"s wife, to remind us not to look back. Maybe also demonstrating the importance of listening to her husband when He is following God. He tells us to remember her. In essence her memory is seasoned with useful and persevering potency.
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not really
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Romans 7
Paul plainly says in v 25 that he is delivered from his sinful body through Christ
we do not actually have 2 personalities. God does not see us with 2 personalities. He sees made perfect in His Son
again, context is helpful for understanding. IMO, there is far too much teaching about this big battle and 2 natures we are supposed to have which we actually do not have and Paul is not saying we do
Paul is speaking to Jews who are familiar with the law. he is referencing what the Jews are familiar with and that is confusing to people to do not understand that and do not look at context or who Paul is speaking to
in chapter 6 of Romans, we have this:
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
which totally denies the 2 nature explanation
Romans may not be the easiest book to understand, but it is one of the best, not excluding the need for deeper study or certainly more than a simple reading or 2
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uh
that is not at all what Paul is saying
again as I explained in my previous post to you, CONTEXT and audience
the logic in what you say beats up the actual logic of Paul's arguement which you are truly misrepresenting
anyone can understand the grace of God when they accept Christ as their Redeemer
NO ONE understands or grasps the sin problem the moment they are saved and in fact it is the grace of God that calls someone to choose to begin with
but make no mistake
we DO choose
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When you come right down to it, Lot was self-centered (with minimal faith) but Abraham was God-centered. Abraham generously gave Lot first preference over where he should settle, and had Lot been God-centered, he would have avoided Sodom and Gomorrah like the plague, and chosen to stay with Abraham in tents.
Lot's wife may have been a heathen since she had no problem with the wickedness in Sodom, and she wistfully longed to go back (if possible). That is why she was turned into a pillar of salt. And because of her lack of faith, her daughters may have been unbelievers and immoral. The sons-in-law were a part of the culture of those evil cities, and refused to believe Lot about impending judgment. They chose to stay behind.
When we take everything into account, we see that while Lot was vexed by the wickedness of his location, he did not have the spiritual wherewithal and commitment to God to pickup and leave with his family (or even leave them all behind, as Abraham had been commanded to do in Haran).
The only reason God was merciful to Lot's wife and daughters is because of His grace towards Lot (totally undeserved). In the end Lot would have been better off to leave everyone behind, since his drunkenness and incest resulted in the formation of two of Israel's most implacable foes -- Moab and Ammon. Today they are represented (in part) by Hamas and Hezbollah, who wish to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Lot's wife may have been a heathen since she had no problem with the wickedness in Sodom, and she wistfully longed to go back (if possible). That is why she was turned into a pillar of salt. And because of her lack of faith, her daughters may have been unbelievers and immoral. The sons-in-law were a part of the culture of those evil cities, and refused to believe Lot about impending judgment. They chose to stay behind.
When we take everything into account, we see that while Lot was vexed by the wickedness of his location, he did not have the spiritual wherewithal and commitment to God to pickup and leave with his family (or even leave them all behind, as Abraham had been commanded to do in Haran).
The only reason God was merciful to Lot's wife and daughters is because of His grace towards Lot (totally undeserved). In the end Lot would have been better off to leave everyone behind, since his drunkenness and incest resulted in the formation of two of Israel's most implacable foes -- Moab and Ammon. Today they are represented (in part) by Hamas and Hezbollah, who wish to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.