Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You remain confused regarding the words of Paul. Paul is saying his flesh, without the Holy Spirit could not find righteousness through The Law, because in his flesh he found no way to keep The Law. BUT, Paul's "New Creation" man, who Is filled/anointed with the Holy Spirit can Keep the Law. Our salvation is through Yahshua and is maintained through the work of the Holy Spirit who He sent by way of the "new heart" by which we live in harmony with Gods righteous requirements and our new found zeal for "Good Works"
No matter how you slice and dice Paul's words you will never "walk" in the fullness of what Yahshua and Paul and all the apostles are teaching through the Holy Spirit as long as you "stand afar off" and refuse to; "be crucified with Christ" or "begin in the Spirit" all frustrations of the Grace of God!
You are living your walk in your "head" regurgitating misinterpreted verses to "justify" the weakness of your walk thinking you are okay, but there IS MORE!
Enter in!
SG
-
1
- Show all
You couldn't be more wrong.
You have a choice.
Walk in the Spirit.
Or work at the law.
You don't get both. The Holy Spirit doesn't cause you to work at the law. The Holy Spirit causes your REST from working at the law.
You should understand this but you don't.
All of you legalists are so close and yet so far. You just get stuck in your circular reasoning. You were told expressly not to. But you CHOSE not to listen I guess.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
And yet you make being entangled in the Yoke of Bondage to be the SIGN of entering in... How very sad for you and all those who agree with you.
You have a choice.
Walk in the Spirit.
Or work at the law.
You don't get both. The Holy Spirit doesn't cause you to work at the law. The Holy Spirit causes your REST from working at the law.
You should understand this but you don't.
All of you legalists are so close and yet so far. You just get stuck in your circular reasoning. You were told expressly not to. But you CHOSE not to listen I guess.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
And yet you make being entangled in the Yoke of Bondage to be the SIGN of entering in... How very sad for you and all those who agree with you.
I don't think we should diminish anyone here, we are thankfully trying to "rightly divide" the scriptures. We know there are a lot worse things people who call themselves "Christian" are doing right now who we would be overjoyed to see in the discussion rather than the place they are. So while we have one another to speak to let's try to do so with "brotherly love" so "that the lamb that was slain might receive the reward of His suffering".
Until men can properly interpret the words of Paul, which even Peter recognized the difficulty in properly understanding what exactly he was saying, we will have this contention. We should all be ready to receive whatever light of understanding the Holy Spirit is giving.
SG
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Yes different translations handle it dofferently.
1. What does the greek say, translation does not matter.
John 3: 36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
“does not obey” is word #G544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.
2. The topic is not salvation directly, it is if Jesus words are valid/important post resurrection. I am being told Jesus words are useless post resurrection. I think His words are of upmost importance.
1. What does the greek say, translation does not matter.
John 3: 36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
“does not obey” is word #G544 - apeitheó: to disobey, Original Word: ἀπειθέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: apeitheó, Phonetic Spelling: (ap-i-theh'-o), Short Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, Definition: I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity.
2. The topic is not salvation directly, it is if Jesus words are valid/important post resurrection. I am being told Jesus words are useless post resurrection. I think His words are of upmost importance.
-
1
- Show all
Well I think it is easy to understand.
Are all prophecies about Jesus fulfilled?
My answer is no, He still has the 2nd coming.
Has heaven and earth passsed away?
Matthew 5:18-20, " 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
No that is still future, it is spoken of in the book of Revelation;
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Also even if you do think heaven and earth has already passed, there is this:
Matthew 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. "
I think it is very simple. Also pray on it, the holy Spirit guides us to all truth.
Are all prophecies about Jesus fulfilled?
My answer is no, He still has the 2nd coming.
Has heaven and earth passsed away?
Matthew 5:18-20, " 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
No that is still future, it is spoken of in the book of Revelation;
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Also even if you do think heaven and earth has already passed, there is this:
Matthew 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. "
I think it is very simple. Also pray on it, the holy Spirit guides us to all truth.
-
1
- Show all
No, To choose to "keep The Law" without the Holy Spirit is not a choice it is a drudgery. I am saying and have always said that our choice is to be justified, baptized and then receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit which puts Gods Laws and Yahshua's commands in our hearts to do them (sanctification). This is our walk and it does include The Law and Commandments of Yahshua but from a totally new perspective and basis! No longer legalists, just followers of Yahshua and the Holy Spirit He sent to guide us!
Are you missing this GP, Have you taken a doctrinal hard-line to the point that you are resisting the work of the Holy Spirit to work Gods Laws into your heart? Sometimes from your criticism of my words I think it is so.
SG
Are you missing this GP, Have you taken a doctrinal hard-line to the point that you are resisting the work of the Holy Spirit to work Gods Laws into your heart? Sometimes from your criticism of my words I think it is so.
SG
-
1
- Show all
You seem to have a problem with Jesus words. So I think you are isolating. Lets take a look.
Matthew 23:2-4, " 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."
2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat
(this implies they are teaching God's law given through Moses, can't ignore context!)
3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
(This implies that we should listen to them concerning God's law but that they don't do God's law)
4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."
(this one imo can be viewed in different ways, I see it as they add law they thselves are exempt from, because we see their traditions in the word that they command as "law" example is the hand washing ritual they scold Jesus for His followers NOT doing, so the is Biblical evidence that this is correct)
Matthew 23:2-4, " 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."
2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat
(this implies they are teaching God's law given through Moses, can't ignore context!)
3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
(This implies that we should listen to them concerning God's law but that they don't do God's law)
4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger."
(this one imo can be viewed in different ways, I see it as they add law they thselves are exempt from, because we see their traditions in the word that they command as "law" example is the hand washing ritual they scold Jesus for His followers NOT doing, so the is Biblical evidence that this is correct)
-
1
- Show all
Acts 15:19-21
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
So there was a specific reason given why the council decided no greater burden was given to the gentiles...
...Because the law of Moses has been (progressive past tense) preached and is (present tense) read in the synagogue every Sabbath.
- Progressive past tense means "started in the past and is ongoing."
- Present tense means "now".
Note: They weren't placing any greater burden on the gentiles to "TURN to the living God". It was about putting no huge obstacle in front of them joining the fold. "Come as you are".
Also Note: Their reason for choosing not to give any more rules wasn't any reason repeated in Galatians. Their reason was specifically "because the Law of Moses would be taught to them every Sabbath."
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
So there was a specific reason given why the council decided no greater burden was given to the gentiles...
...Because the law of Moses has been (progressive past tense) preached and is (present tense) read in the synagogue every Sabbath.
- Progressive past tense means "started in the past and is ongoing."
- Present tense means "now".
Note: They weren't placing any greater burden on the gentiles to "TURN to the living God". It was about putting no huge obstacle in front of them joining the fold. "Come as you are".
Also Note: Their reason for choosing not to give any more rules wasn't any reason repeated in Galatians. Their reason was specifically "because the Law of Moses would be taught to them every Sabbath."
-
1
- Show all
No that is ignoring what I have been saying nearly every post in the topic.
That Jesus is our light, example, interpreter, Shepherd, etc.
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
Jesus gave PERFECT example of the way His followers are supposed to live.
That Jesus is our light, example, interpreter, Shepherd, etc.
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
Jesus gave PERFECT example of the way His followers are supposed to live.
-
2
- Show all