1+1+1=ONE

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I understand how and why Trinity came to be, and it's not irrational at all; nor are the other main God-models if thoroughly examined and understood. It's stubborn, indoctrinated, ignorantly adamant Trinitarians who can't objectively search for truth without condemning everyone else anathema... they're irrational. Trinis are blinded by their inferred conceptual perceptions, they won't consider error in a doctrine they can't understand or explain anyway.

It is your personal dysfunction that is irrational, and I've explained it several times to no avail. You've even repeated it in the above post.

You continually shift the positive burden-of-proof to negative, and demand others prove there's NOT a Trinity and three persons.

You continually insist lack of inclusion is arguing from silence, when inclusion must be proven when there is silence.

If scripture doesn't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

If historical writings don't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

You invert those and demand silence must be proven NOT to show Trinity of three persons. That is dishonest and moronic.

And after me repeatedly explaining this, you STILL demand prove-the-negative, etc.

Prove the INCLUSION of God as three "persons" in scripture and history or shutchermouf.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Well as most Trinitarians think I have no eternal life and am a heretic I'm not that worrried if they disagree with me. But I would be interested to know how you see it

If we are very close in our belief on this subject, where is the difference?

Here's snippet related to the Word.

God's OWN Word was embodied in flesh. God spoke. His Word didn't speak, it was spoken BY Him. A Word doesn't speak itself, it is spoken. That internal Word became the external Son.

I can exegete that God's Word is Deity as He is.

(This is only a glimpse for now.)

 

[livingbygrace]

Here's snippet related to the Word.

God's OWN Word was embodied in flesh. God spoke. His Word didn't speak, it was spoken BY Him. A Word doesn't speak itself, it is spoken. That internal Word became the external Son.

I can exegete that God's Word is Deity as He is.

(This is only a glimpse for now.)

Thanks for the snippet

I believe the Holy Spirit descended on Christ in bodily form at his baptism as scripture says. Trinitarians who have commented on this say it was just symbolic, I guess they'd have to.
I don't believe it was, what do you think?

 

[Scotth1960]

I understand how and why Trinity came to be, and it's not irrational at all; nor are the other main God-models if thoroughly examined and understood. It's stubborn, indoctrinated, ignorantly adamant Trinitarians who can't objectively search for truth without condemning everyone else anathema... they're irrational. Trinis are blinded by their inferred conceptual perceptions, they won't consider error in a doctrine they can't understand or explain anyway.

It is your personal dysfunction that is irrational, and I've explained it several times to no avail. You've even repeated it in the above post.

You continually shift the positive burden-of-proof to negative, and demand others prove there's NOT a Trinity and three persons.

You continually insist lack of inclusion is arguing from silence, when inclusion must be proven when there is silence.

If scripture doesn't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

If historical writings don't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

You invert those and demand silence must be proven NOT to show Trinity of three persons. That is dishonest and moronic.

And after me repeatedly explaining this, you STILL demand prove-the-negative, etc.

Prove the INCLUSION of God as three "persons" in scripture and history or shutchermouf.

You stubbornly tell me to shut my mouth. You just go on and on and attack. Your words lack charity. All you can do is use invective and poison your arguments with attacks on me. When did I attack you at any time? You just go on and on with words that amount to nothing. You're the one who says "the writings don't say this, the writing writings don't say Trinity or persons." Since we can't go back and interview the early Christians, we must rely on the early writers who do say Trinity and the Greek fathers who do use the term hypostasis (hupostasis). Even you have admitted that some of the ANF, and the the later NPNF used the terms Trinity, persons, and so on. You just choose to reject what they say, so you can follow your own tradition. And you continually fail to produce the names of any teachers from 100 to 300 AD who taught the same thing you teach. You'll be left in your own mess, which comes from denying history and studying the Bible out of context.
We stand on the shoulders of the previous Christian teachers, and they were all Trinitarians. God bless you. I'll wish you goodbye for now. You will only have silence as your friend if you fail to produce names who taught your doctrines from the period after the NT, 100 to 300 AD. Which teachers do you agree with from that period, you persistent pneumapsuchesoma? In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You stubbornly tell me to shut my mouth. You just go on and on and attack. Your words lack charity. All you can do is use invective and poison your arguments with attacks on me. When did I attack you at any time? You just go on and on with words that amount to nothing. You're the one who says "the writings don't say this, the writing writings don't say Trinity or persons." Since we can't go back and interview the early Christians, we must rely on the early writers who do say Trinity and the Greek fathers who do use the term hypostasis (hupostasis). Even you have admitted that some of the ANF, and the the later NPNF used the terms Trinity, persons, and so on. You just choose to reject what they say, so you can follow your own tradition. And you continually fail to produce the names of any teachers from 100 to 300 AD who taught the same thing you teach. You'll be left in your own mess, which comes from denying history and studying the Bible out of context.
We stand on the shoulders of the previous Christian teachers, and they were all Trinitarians. God bless you. I'll wish you goodbye for now. You will only have silence as your friend if you fail to produce names who taught your doctrines from the period after the NT, 100 to 300 AD. Which teachers do you agree with from that period, you persistent pneumapsuchesoma? In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Thank you. Silence from insipid double standards and moronic prove-the-negative mentality from you is welcome. Feel free to return if you acquire an honest perspective to converse.

 

[Consumed]

by this they shall know you are my disciples, that you love one another

cost Jesus to tell us this, far outwieghs any theological discussion

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

by this they shall know you are my disciples, that you love one another

cost Jesus to tell us this, far outwieghs any theological discussion

Paul rebuked Peter. That was love. Love isn't all "Sloppy Agape". Jesus sharply corrected those with "religion".

This isn't playtime. Trinity has corrupted the faith for 1.7 millenia. It's time for the truth, not Trinity error.

Notice how no one can show "persons" from scripture, yet come at me repeatedly.

Notice how there's no substantial sustained apologetic, just tradition and inference.

Truth is the Word. The Word is God. God is Love. So... Love is the Truth.

Trinity isn't Truth. Trinity isn't Love.

 

[wakeup]

You still haven't said what Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are. If not persons, what are they?
You offer no alternative explanation. Only silence. You haven't produced a Scripture that proves the term persons is erroneous.

why do you preach the trinity, for it means three? havent you forgotten something?
you have stashed the mother of God in the closet,is that not dishonouring her?
come on now,how will she ever answer your prayers. bring her back in to your family.
this is just to remind you incase you totally ignore her. dont get all upset now.
we still love you. only the humble can see. you have a peaceful day.

""wakeup.""

 

[wakeup]

No. God is uni-plural; Tri-une. Three in one. Don't you know the difference. God is not a plurality. He is a Trinity. He is One. Only One God. But not only one persons. He is Three Persons.

like the hindhu god, is it wishnu or shiva, the three headed one.

 

[Scotth1960]

I understand how and why Trinity came to be, and it's not irrational at all; nor are the other main God-models if thoroughly examined and understood. It's stubborn, indoctrinated, ignorantly adamant Trinitarians who can't objectively search for truth without condemning everyone else anathema... they're irrational. Trinis are blinded by their inferred conceptual perceptions, they won't consider error in a doctrine they can't understand or explain anyway.

It is your personal dysfunction that is irrational, and I've explained it several times to no avail. You've even repeated it in the above post.

You continually shift the positive burden-of-proof to negative, and demand others prove there's NOT a Trinity and three persons.

You continually insist lack of inclusion is arguing from silence, when inclusion must be proven when there is silence.

If scripture doesn't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.
Pneumapsuchesoma, sir: Are you relying on Sola Scriptura? First prove that everything a Christian believes must be proven from Scripture? If Scripture doesn't say "no persons", "no persons" must be proven, not disproven?
See your illogic? Scripture neither proves nor disproves persons or no persons. The Scripture is merely silent either way. Thus, we must look beyond Scripture to TRADITION. By WHICH TRADITION will you interpret HOLY SCRIPTURE? Which early Church tradition said "NO PERSONS"? WHICH TEACHERS? Do you have written proof from an early tradition that the Trinity was believed to be false, and can you show that this anti-Trinity teaching was from the same Church founded by Jesus Christ? In Erie Scott




If historical writings don't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.
BY THAT TOKEN, IF HISTORICAL WRITINGS DON'T SAY "NO PERSONS", NO PERSONS MUST BE PROVEN, NOT DISPROVEN. Scott Harrington /Erie


You invert those and demand silence must be proven NOT to show Trinity of three persons. That is dishonest and moronic.

And after me repeatedly explaining this, you STILL demand prove-the-negative, etc.

Prove the INCLUSION of God as three "persons" in scripture and history or shutchermouf.

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=wakeup;402846]like the hindhu god, is it wishnu or shiva, the three headed one.[/quote]
No. Hinduism is three gods. The Trinity is one God. You slander what you do not believe in or follow from Scripture. You reject Matthew 28:19 according to Church tradition. You follow an anti-Trinity tradition. Or am I being unfair? Do you believe God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? That's Trinitarian if you believe that. In Erie Scott

 

[Scotth1960]

why do you preach the trinity, for it means three? havent you forgotten something?
you have stashed the mother of God in the closet,is that not dishonouring her?
come on now,how will she ever answer your prayers. bring her back in to your family.
this is just to remind you incase you totally ignore her. dont get all upset now.
we still love you. only the humble can see. you have a peaceful day.

""wakeup.""

The mother of God is not a person of the Trinity. Take care. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

Paul rebuked Peter. That was love. Love isn't all "Sloppy Agape". Jesus sharply corrected those with "religion".

This isn't playtime. Trinity has corrupted the faith for 1.7 millenia. It's time for the truth, not Trinity error.

Notice how no one can show "persons" from scripture, yet come at me repeatedly.

Notice how there's no substantial sustained apologetic, just tradition and inference.

Truth is the Word. The Word is God. God is Love. So... Love is the Truth.

Trinity isn't Truth. Trinity isn't Love.

No persons in Mathew 28:19 isn't Scripture alone, it's a tradition read into Scripture. It

isn't exegesis. It's a no persons eisogesis. It's an extrabiblical tradition. Scripture

neither tells us either persons or no persons. We have to rely on the visible Church to

know persons. If we rely on the heretics, we say "no persons", for no teacher of Christ

denied the Trinity. In Erie Scott

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Scott-

I am seriously concerned for your mental well-being. I think all your meds have altered your thinking.

 

[Scotth1960]

I understand how and why Trinity came to be, and it's not irrational at all; nor are the other main God-models if thoroughly examined and understood. It's stubborn, indoctrinated, ignorantly adamant Trinitarians who can't objectively search for truth without condemning everyone else anathema... they're irrational. Trinis are blinded by their inferred conceptual perceptions, they won't consider error in a doctrine they can't understand or explain anyway.

It is your personal dysfunction that is irrational, and I've explained it several times to no avail. You've even repeated it in the above post.

You continually shift the positive burden-of-proof to negative, and demand others prove there's NOT a Trinity and three persons.

You continually insist lack of inclusion is arguing from silence, when inclusion must be proven when there is silence.

If scripture doesn't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

If historical writings don't say "persons", persons must be proven not disproven.

You invert those and demand silence must be proven NOT to show Trinity of three persons. That is dishonest and moronic.

And after me repeatedly explaining this, you STILL demand prove-the-negative, etc.

Prove the INCLUSION of God as three "persons" in scripture and history or shutchermouf.

The inclusion of God as three persons is in Scripture and in history. In Scripture, Matthew 28:19. In history the early Church between AD 100 and AD 381. Prove from history that the Church held the no persons view? Prove your teachers are the Church that Christ founded. Prove there were any no persons, no Trinity teachers between 100 and 400 AD. And prove they were the Church founded by Christ and the Church of the apostles. In Erie Scott

 

[trust_in_the_name]

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

The tradition of men means nothing to me.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn.

More blah-blah inference and total ignorance of language, culture, history, and scripture.

Tell the ancient Hebrews about their "plural" God from pronoun constructs.

Deity of F-S-HS isn't default Trinity.

Opinions are irrelevant.

Trinitarian mathematics is as bad as their erroneous doctrine.

For more information,see: http:// theopedia.com/modalism Modalism is a heresy. It was spoken against by Tertullian. It was opposed in the early Church. The Trinity is taught not only in Matthew 28:19, but also 2 Corinthians 13:14. "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Amen." ONT Orthodox New Testament So much for the Trinity not being Love. The Father is Love. God is Love (1 John ). The Son is Love. The Holy Spirit is Love. Take care.

Early heretics

Sabellius
Noetus
Praxeas

These were not the Church that Christ founded. They taught against the Trinity. They can't show their view was received from any bishop who succeeded an apostle of Christ.

Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Note: the word blah-blah isn't in Scripture. Neither is it coming from Scripture or from

God to bring up ad hominem arguments about mental illness and medications causing

a certain belief in God. That's a logical fallacy: attack the man, rather than show logically

and from the Scriptures that his teaching is in error.

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=trust_in_the_name;404750]8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

The tradition of men means nothing to me.[/quote]
Denying the Trinity is a tradition of men
Arius
Nestorius
Sabellius
Eutyches
Apollinarius
and a few other people who either denied the Trinity, or taught a heretical Christology.
In Erie/Scott
PS Do you believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are The Trinity of Three Persons in One God? Denying that belief is a "tradition of men".

 

[Shwagga]

People have asked is the Trinity real? How can God be three people? When he said in Deut 6:4...The Lord is God, The Lord is One.
Well the word One refers to Gods uniqueness and not to his being Alone. As most of you know the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. The English word "one" is translated into two words in the biblical Hebrew. The first is "YAHID" (unique, only son) gen.22:2
The second is "EHAD"(those united, becoming of one flesh) gen.2:24
...The Lord is God, the Lord is One. Translates and means that God is not solitary, even though He is unique. It suggests that God is united, or more than one person...


4 Hints in the Old Testament

1. Gen 1:26_ And God (singular) said, “Let US(Plural) make man in OUR (Plural) likeness…
2. Gen 3:22_ And the Lord God (singular) said” Behold, the man is become as on of US (plural) to know good and evil…
3. Gen 11:7_ Come let US (plural) go down, and there confound their language…
4. Isa 6:8_ Also I heard the of the Lord (singular) saying, “Whom shall I (singular) send and who will go for US (plural)?

God is Love… 1John 4:8 & 16. Before creation there was an eternity when God existed as Love. God could not have been Love if He was solitary…For who would He Love?

Truths of the Trinity in Scriptures

1. Gen 1:1_ In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.
2. Heb 1:2_ Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM HE MADE THE WORLD.
3. John 1:1-3; 14_ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. _ And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. Eph 4:30_ And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
5. Acts 5:3-4_ But peter said “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God.
6. Matt 1:23_ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.



Jesus could not have become human without the Holy Spirit. Matt. 1:18-20. Jesus had to pray to God. And God could not have created everything without his Son Jesus. Heb. 1:2.



I believe that the Trinity is real and by reading this I hope you do to. But everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

-GODBLESS!!!-

Thank you so much for your post, I recommend checking out this website biblestudying.net/rabbinic3.html it's a great resource on this topic. Start at the [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]6. Descriptions of God –[/FONT] part.

God bless you!

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott-

I am seriously concerned for your mental well-being. I think all your meds have altered your thinking.

I'm taking my meds, and since you aren't an expert on what medications do, your point is fallacious. You assume that medications can alter thinking. That's hardly scientific. People have free will: medications don't determine our thoughts.
In Erie/ Scott