Galatian Conundrums
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which is the reference in Acts 15.
Here is an article from http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp358.htm
---------------------------------------------------- Are there two gospels? -------------------------------------------------------
All those gathered at the Feast of Pentecost knew what Jesus was preaching before he ascended to heaven. lets go over the similarities of Paul and Peter.
Peter Acts 2:21 “And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' Paul says this very thing in Rom.10
Paul says this is the gospel he preached 1 Cor.15:1-4. This is what Peter explained on Pentecost, which is the same subject, Jesus’ Death and resurrection.
Acts 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; "whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
Acts 2:32-33 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”
The Holy Spirit bore witness to the truth and made them witnesses of the truth.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
In other words you have walked away from Jesus, whom God gave as Messiah. Change your mind, turn toward him and be baptized to show that you are now committed and genuinely believe and you will be born again, by receiving the Spirit of God.
Acts 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.”
Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.”
If one studies what Peter says later we find him agreeing with Paul and he even says this of Paul
2 Peter 3:15-18 “and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”
What is the error of the wicked that Peter would be referring to? He tells us it will have one fall from their own steadfastness. His answer is to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, not keep the law as the Judaizers/ legalists were insisting.
When people get into the points of minutia before they see the bigger picture they will ALWAYS miss the point.
God presented Jesus to his people of the covenant first. Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities."
Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”
There is only one gospel, not two and if one insists there are two, one of them is false. If they do not hold to the gospel that Paul preached, which is what Peter preached for both the Jews and non Jews (Gentiles) then they have accepted another gospel and will be judged for disseminating it to others.
---------------------------------------------------- Are there two gospels? -------------------------------------------------------
All those gathered at the Feast of Pentecost knew what Jesus was preaching before he ascended to heaven. lets go over the similarities of Paul and Peter.
Peter Acts 2:21 “And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' Paul says this very thing in Rom.10
Paul says this is the gospel he preached 1 Cor.15:1-4. This is what Peter explained on Pentecost, which is the same subject, Jesus’ Death and resurrection.
Acts 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; "whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
Acts 2:32-33 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”
The Holy Spirit bore witness to the truth and made them witnesses of the truth.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
In other words you have walked away from Jesus, whom God gave as Messiah. Change your mind, turn toward him and be baptized to show that you are now committed and genuinely believe and you will be born again, by receiving the Spirit of God.
Acts 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.”
Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.”
If one studies what Peter says later we find him agreeing with Paul and he even says this of Paul
2 Peter 3:15-18 “and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”
What is the error of the wicked that Peter would be referring to? He tells us it will have one fall from their own steadfastness. His answer is to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, not keep the law as the Judaizers/ legalists were insisting.
When people get into the points of minutia before they see the bigger picture they will ALWAYS miss the point.
God presented Jesus to his people of the covenant first. Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities."
Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”
There is only one gospel, not two and if one insists there are two, one of them is false. If they do not hold to the gospel that Paul preached, which is what Peter preached for both the Jews and non Jews (Gentiles) then they have accepted another gospel and will be judged for disseminating it to others.
We didn`t answer your false accusation at the time but let`s set the record straight here. The two gospels existed during a transition period. The first gospel which our friend here is focused on was rolled over into the second. You just seize the term and use it to create your unfounded criticism without taking into account the disclaimers I gave before I even started trying to talk about it. Neither of us claim two gospels after the extinction of the Jewish churches of the 12 in the first century.
U have to understand OT prophecy about the divine timetable.
Many prophecies in the Kingdom program for Israel are dependent on the Jewish nation accepting their King before they can happen. I would think all the Jews then, who have been taught the OT since they were young, would have understood them.
Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”
Zechariah 8 explains
3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’
Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”
A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.
Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.
Finally, when Jesus was on Earth, he also said this to the Samaritan woman
John 4:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.
Once you understand from the perspective of the Jews then, such verses in Acts become easily understood, such as
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Why did the 12 stubbornly remained in Jerusalem despite the great persecution?
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Why did the majority of those scattered kept preaching to the Jews only? By what you said, shouldn't they understand the GC in Matt 28 is urging them to preach to Gentiles?
Many prophecies in the Kingdom program for Israel are dependent on the Jewish nation accepting their King before they can happen. I would think all the Jews then, who have been taught the OT since they were young, would have understood them.
Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”
Zechariah 8 explains
3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’
Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”
A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.
Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus has the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.
Finally, when Jesus was on Earth, he also said this to the Samaritan woman
John 4:22 New Living Translation (NLT)
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.
Once you understand from the perspective of the Jews then, such verses in Acts become easily understood, such as
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Why did the 12 stubbornly remained in Jerusalem despite the great persecution?
Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Why did the majority of those scattered kept preaching to the Jews only? By what you said, shouldn't they understand the GC in Matt 28 is urging them to preach to Gentiles?
Interesting that you asked this question. It reminds me of the part that Paul said, and you will probably groan at this
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Cor 5:16
Paul seems to be implying here that us in the Body of Christ now, are not to know Christ while in the flesh.
If you read his epistles, other than the Lord's supper, which he also received direct revelation from the Lord, Paul preached absolutely nothing about the things Jesus said before his ascension.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Cor 5:16
Paul seems to be implying here that us in the Body of Christ now, are not to know Christ while in the flesh.
If you read his epistles, other than the Lord's supper, which he also received direct revelation from the Lord, Paul preached absolutely nothing about the things Jesus said before his ascension.
SO are you saying Paul says that Jesus words pre-ascention are made void? That is a direct contrdiction of the king, you are making Paul the enemy of Jesus.
John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
Like I said, the verse is there by Paul. To us who believe that Paul is OUR apostle, his words are the words of the ascended Christ for non Jewish believers.
So there is nothing of Paul being the enemy of Jesus, different audience that's all. Paul himself stated
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37).
So there is nothing of Paul being the enemy of Jesus, different audience that's all. Paul himself stated
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37).
All of us are arguing from silence here. We can say that Luke did not record Peter ever preaching to any gentile, after Cornelius, from Acts 10-15.
And at the Jerusalem council event, Galatians 2:9 recorded Peter saying that he, together with James and John, will restrict their ministry to only the Jews. So we can say that Peter did not preach to Gentiles after that.
And at the Jerusalem council event, Galatians 2:9 recorded Peter saying that he, together with James and John, will restrict their ministry to only the Jews. So we can say that Peter did not preach to Gentiles after that.
12 is a remnant of the apostles ...27 listed in the new testament .12 set aside to represent a parable (Revelation 21)
Apostle "sent one" with no other meaning attached .Like an apostle is one who saw Jesus .You don't have to see Jesus to be a apostle just being sent defines the word.
Many new meanings that men have attached to the word as a way the of apostles lording it over another person faith .
A word that has lost it meaning destroying its purpose. Killed by Catholicism called apostolic succession.
Apostle "sent one" with no other meaning attached .Like an apostle is one who saw Jesus .You don't have to see Jesus to be a apostle just being sent defines the word.
Many new meanings that men have attached to the word as a way the of apostles lording it over another person faith .
A word that has lost it meaning destroying its purpose. Killed by Catholicism called apostolic succession.