Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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FollowtheShepherd

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You're right! Paul was not the only one who told us to stop keeping the law of Moses. What I actually mean is that it was mainly Paul who told us that.
SO who else other than Paul said the law is done away/non-binding?

Surely you can provide where this is stated by Jesus or one of His chosen disciples?

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
 

RickStudies

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Why is this guy still going around preaching two Gospels?

Galatians 1 says, anyone preaching another gospel, let him be anathema.
Did you think you would silence me with name calling, false accusation and game playing? I`m thinking I`ll be here as long as the moderators choose to let me share my opinion about the gospel or until my knee gets well.
 

RickStudies

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No the law is not altered by a jot although I got into trouble for saying that in another thread
If you like God`s commandments they will give you grief around here.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 

FollowtheShepherd

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John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Jesus WORDS.
 

Grandpa

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The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:8-13

So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:10

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?


If Paul acknowledges God's and Jesus' authority, shouldn't we?

Does a servant acknowledge his master's authority by not keeping his orders, instructions, rules, commands or laws?

Every kingdom and government on this earth has their set of laws for their people, to establish peace and order.

I would not dare to go to KSA and tell their king that his laws have no bearing on me and I am free to do whatever I want in his kingdom. I don't want to become a headless scarecrow.

If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. ...But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. 1 Corinthians 14:37-40

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.


Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.




Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
2 Corinthians 3:10-11
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
1 Corinthians 15:55-56
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

But look at this;
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now go back up to Matthew 11:28 and read again and see if you can grasp what these scriptures are saying...
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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The law of God is clearly in force to all beings, anyone who denies thise disagrees with Jesus:

Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”

Revelation 12:16-17, " 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”
Hi, FS!

If your interpretation is correct then Paul was a false apostle.

I found an interesting book in Google Books: Jesus' Words Only Or Was Paul The Apostle Jesus Condemns In Revelation 2?

I'm sure you'll love it!
 

FollowtheShepherd

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Sep 15, 2019
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Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Now go back up to Matthew 11:28 and read again and see if you can grasp what these scriptures are saying...
Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Romans 7:22-25, " 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Free from sin, not a servant to sin.

Jeremiah 6:16-17, " 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where [is] the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk [therein]. 17 Also I set watchmen over you, [saying], Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

One can not testify on their own behalf, we only have Paul telling us what Jesus told him, we never have Jesus or the 12 saying Paul is a chosen disciple to teach for Jesus. Can you show me where another testifies of Paul as a disciple of Jesus? Again it can not be Paul saying someone said something because that is his own testimony.
The other disciples gave Paul the right hand of fellowship, did they not?
 

FollowtheShepherd

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Sep 15, 2019
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Hi, FS!

If your interpretation is correct then Paul was a false apostle.

I found an interesting book in Google Books: Jesus' Words Only Or Was Paul The Apostle Jesus Condemns In Revelation 2?

I'm sure you'll love it!
Well I study the word and base my beliefs from the word, however I do know about the Revelation 2 dilemma.

Maybe you being a disciple of Paul or a disciple of Jesus through Paul.

Is it ok to eat meat/food sacrificed to idols?

This is what Jesus says:

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality."

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols."

This is what Jesus chosen disciples said:

Acts 21:25, “But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

This is what Paul says:

1 Corinthians 10:25, “Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience.”

1 Corinthians 8:1-13, "Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak (Acts 15 says “abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols”), is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."

Romans 14:1-23, “As for the one who is weak in faith (Acts 15 says “abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols”), welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.”

SO this would have to be honestly broken dowan if you want me to consider your wivew, what I mean is you cant ignore and then expect me to adhere to your view.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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SO who else other than Paul said the law is done away/non-binding?

Surely you can provide where this is stated by Jesus or one of His chosen disciples?

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
All those who attended the Council of Jerusalem.
 

FollowtheShepherd

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Sep 15, 2019
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The other disciples gave Paul the right hand of fellowship, did they not?
So you are refrencing this:

Galatians 2:9
and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

1. Paul questions the 3 main disciples. "when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars"

2. Paul says "we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised" This is a direct contradiction of what Jesus and His chosen disciple Peter said.

Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

3. This is Pauls own testimony, may I remind you one can not testify on their own behalf.

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

One can not testify on their own behalf, we only have Paul telling us what Jesus told him, we never have Jesus or the 12 saying Paul is a chosen disciple to teach for Jesus. Can you show me where another testifies of Paul as a disciple of Jesus? Again it can not be Paul saying someone said something because that is his own testimony.
 

FollowtheShepherd

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All those who attended the Council of Jerusalem.
Nonsense.

Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles (new converts) who are turning to God, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosesh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”

All these are from the law and you ignore the statement "Mosesh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath" the new converts "turning to GOd" will learn what the commands are weekly.

Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Could someone or anyone please refer me to this information with Chapter and verse.

1. What it something other than the ordinances nailed to the cross?

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

but this does not say " the law" , only the parts that were contrary. It must be somewhere else and I can't find it.



2. Where is it Paul says "the law includes the commandments"?

3. Where does the bible state they are a "unit" not to be divided or separated?

1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself.

Is this not separating?

Deuteronomy 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.


With the 10 commandments, 2 tablets written by God, were put "into" the ark and the law was put it beside it. Doesn't this show that God Himself separated them from each other? That is a pretty big show in itself as at least those being separated, right?
 

RickStudies

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Could someone or anyone please refer me to this information with Chapter and verse.

1. What it something other than the ordinances nailed to the cross?

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

but this does not say " the law" , only the parts that were contrary. It must be somewhere else and I can't find it.



2. Where is it Paul says "the law includes the commandments"?

3. Where does the bible state they are a "unit" not to be divided or separated?

1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself.

Is this not separating?

Deuteronomy 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.
Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.


With the 10 commandments, 2 tablets written by God, were put "into" the ark and the law was put it beside it. Doesn't this show that God Himself separated them from each other? That is a pretty big show in itself as at least those being separated, right?
What is nailed to the cross is your indictment, the case against you for your sin. That is the difference you are seeing. The laws of God were not nailed to the cross, just the indictments.

The Law forever retains it`s power to condemn the lost and those who trust in their own works.
 

FollowtheShepherd

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Sep 15, 2019
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What is nailed to the cross is your indictment, the case against you for your sin. That is the difference you are seeing. The laws of God were not nailed to the cross, just the indictments.

The Law forever retains it`s power to condemn the lost and those who trust in their own works.
Does the law condem sinners?

Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Free from sin, not a servant to sin.
That is why the ignore button is so useful. One day you find you are running around "for" a servant to sin. Stop the madness. You can "show ignored content" when you want to check out what is going on. But when you find not even a modicum of growth, it is a good indication that someone other than God taking up you precious time. Just saying, amongst "men" there is a fleshy pride of "never having done that" . But remember, Time, precious and valuable, who wants yours??? to stop you from doing good.


What is nailed to the cross is your indictment, the case against you for your sin. That is the difference you are seeing. The laws of God were not nailed to the cross, just the indictments.

The Law forever retains it`s power to condemn the lost and those who trust in their own works.
Before I stand up and scream "NO IT WASN'T" I am trying to make sure I have not missed an important verse where it says it was because I keep hearing it, but I can't find it. Do you know of any other verses that say "the law" was?
 

RickStudies

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Sep 10, 2019
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That is why the ignore button is so useful. One day you find you are running around "for" a servant to sin. Stop the madness. You can "show ignored content" when you want to check out what is going on. But when you find not even a modicum of growth, it is a good indication that someone other than God taking up you precious time. Just saying, amongst "men" there is a fleshy pride of "never having done that" . But remember, Time, precious and valuable, who wants yours??? to stop you from doing good.




Before I stand up and scream "NO IT WASN'T" I am trying to make sure I have not missed an important verse where it says it was because I keep hearing it, but I can't find it. Do you know of any other verses that say "the law" was?
More clarification please. Tell exactly what you want me to answer to because I`m not quite understanding you. Sry.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Actually, covenant theology would not be likely to use a phrase like "law dispensation".

That could be a phrase that dispensationalists would use, though. Classical dispensationalism divides time into seven epochs of redemptive history called dispensations.

I don't think there's very many classical dispensationalists now, but they tend to hold variations of beliefs that are similar to it.

Covenant theologians believe that the Mosaic Covenant is basically the "covenant of grace" under a different administration. The new administration of the "covenant of grace" is the New Covenant.

That is why they believe it is appropriate for a child to be baptized based on the parents' faith.

I don't believe in either. My position is 1689 Federalism. They view the Mosaic Covenant as typological of the New Covenant. They don't believe eternal life was ever offered under it, but only long life in the Promised Land.

1689 Federalism is a Reformed Baptist teaching. Covenant theology is mostly held by Presbyterians, although some Reformed Baptists hold a modified version of it.

Perhaps I'm confusing who is talking to who, though.
I was addressing his point about "To my understanding, God is eternal and doesn't change. Scripture gives us these principle established at creation and that creation doesn't change according to a year we are living in God's creation," and not the term "law dispensation" per se.

But everyone is basically a dispensationalist at heart. The moment one believes that people used animal sacrifice in the past for their sins but we do not do so now, because Jesus is our final sacrifice, he is being a dispensationalist, even if he won't admit it.