Galatian Conundrums

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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven — things which angels desire to look into.
(1 Peter 1:10-11)
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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ping-ponging happens when someone has an indefensible position and, refusing correction, keeps repeating it.
 

posthuman

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ping-ponging happens when someone has an indefensible position and, refusing correction, keeps repeating it.

Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
(John 12:39-41)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You heard of the term red letter Christians?

I think you will find Many people there who share similar beliefs
So,tell us,are the red letters harmful,or just filler in a book?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Paul stated that God has not forsaken the Jews in romans 11 and his calling is irrevocable.

How that is going to play out is something all of us have to wait and see.

It’s not surprising to me. After all no one could understand fully how the cross ended up to be such a wonderful plan to save all mankind from their sins, until Paul explained it for us
Was Jesus confused about jn 3:16,and his statement "...you must be born again" ?
Was it not Jesus that straightened out both paul and peter?
Jesus didnt get progressive revelation.

There is one thing you never test fitted into your doctrine. We are grafted into the jewish tree. We are grafted in Jews.

See,you got it backwards. You see the first church and Jesus as "unfortunately" jewish. You see them with baggage and hamstrung,ineffective,but on a shelf until paul comes to operate on the gentiles. Then you see the real church birthed.
You ignore "grafted in"...that we are grafted into the same jewish vine that the jews were cut off from.
They will be grafted back ONLY into the Jesus vine. Not a separate vine.
No salvation apart from Jesus.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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you mean like that silly great commission that was only for the disciples?
If you want to hold on to the GC, there are many churches who preach on that, so you can easily find a home anywhere.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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You ignore "grafted in"...that we are grafted into the same jewish vine that the jews were cut off from.
They will be grafted back ONLY into the Jesus vine. Not a separate vine.
No salvation apart from Jesus.
I think viewing "the olive tree" as "Jesus" or "salvation" or "eternal life," or the like, is a mistake (this is how Arminianists come to their conclusion of "losing [or forfeiting] salvation" among other misunderstood/misapplied passages [whereas the Calvinists simply change the context mid-stream, here, also incorrect :D (context: Romans 9-11)]).

Consider this quote I've posted before:

[quoting those posts]

(note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):

[quoting GV Wigram]

"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."

[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."

--George V Wigram

http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041

____________

[quoting that other article]

"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."

-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

[end quoting those posts]
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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Is it ok to actually understand what is being said?

Galatians 2:4-14, " 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Revelation 21:14, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
(Matthew 24:14)
i believe that this work will be completed in revelation the angel is speaking the gospel.
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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That depends on the extent you lean towards their beliefs.

https://www.redletterchristians.org/what-is-rlc/
this website looks terrible. i notice quickly many things so wrong i learn how to read these between lines

they say questioning cultural norms thats no no. means they could be pro-sodomy or against order in churches that st.paul said. they say we try to get rid of us vs them and work with other faiths that mean they disobey against st.paul be ye separate and dont work with unbelievers when it comes to spiritual things. im not talking about working secular job but spiritual job

they say they embrace other faiths that tells these men are already deceived for the future one world religion by antichrist. sad to see.

i am still writing this and i did research in their tags on the website and see what i just said earlier they could be pro-sodomy. its confirmed on their website, i knew it as soon as i opened website and read that and i looked at that guy with the ear ring i knew from that second yes this is a sodomychurch and they are pure social justice warrior liberal apostate mode. trying to destroy all real churches.

i hope that everyone learns to read between lines when people say things like questioning cultural norms it always means sodomy in today's world, when people say loving others and talk about it much it always means accepting sins instead of actually loving people, these liberal churches change love to mean tolerance for everything.
 

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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But do you believe that post resurrection that does not apply?

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

or that there is a differnt way for Jews and Gentiles?

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd"

and sent the 12 to ALL people, Jew and Gentile:

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
This settles it. Even after the resurrection the apostles are sent out as a witness to the ends of the earth. No Jew or Gentile only ministry. That is ridicilous.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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This settles it. Even after the resurrection the apostles are sent out as a witness to the ends of the earth. No Jew or Gentile only ministry. That is ridicilous.
Yes Jesus made it clear.

But do you believe that post resurrection that does not apply?

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

or that there is a differnt way for Jews and Gentiles?

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd"

and sent the 12 to ALL people, Jew and Gentile:

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
It seems to me some christians do not accept Jesus words. Mind blowing.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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i found this interesting today:
Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.
(Acts 18:24-28)
at Ephesus.
believed through grace.


notice that Apollos has not met Paul & is preaching the gospel accurately.
notice that Aquilla & Priscilla ((who had met Paul, 8:1-23)) explain to him the gospel more accurately.
notice that it is not '
the other gospel' or 'the other things of the Lord' -- it is the things of the Lord more accurately.
not different things. the same things.
the same things more accurately.


what baptism did Apollos know? that of John only.
so John's baptism: the gospel not as accurately, or a different gospel?


let's keep reading :)

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Now the men were about twelve in all.
(Acts 19:1-7)
so what gospel does Paul preach to these 12 disciples, presumably likewise "more accurately"?

And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
(Acts 19:8)
the gospel of the kingdom.
for 150 days.

But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
(Acts 19:9-10)
the things of the Lord
the kingdom
the Way
the word of the Lord


the Lord of both Jews and Greeks

_____________________________________:unsure:
 
Jan 12, 2019
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i found this interesting today:
Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.
(Acts 18:24-28)
at Ephesus.
believed through grace.


notice that Apollos has not met Paul & is preaching the gospel accurately.
notice that Aquilla & Priscilla ((who had met Paul, 8:1-23)) explain to him the gospel more accurately.
notice that it is not '
the other gospel' or 'the other things of the Lord' -- it is the things of the Lord more accurately.
not different things. the same things.
the same things more accurately.


what baptism did Apollos know? that of John only.
so John's baptism: the gospel not as accurately, or a different gospel?


let's keep reading :)

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Now the men were about twelve in all.
(Acts 19:1-7)
so what gospel does Paul preach to these 12 disciples, presumably likewise "more accurately"?

And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
(Acts 19:8)
the gospel of the kingdom.
for 150 days.


But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
(Acts 19:9-10)
the things of the Lord
the kingdom
the Way
the word of the Lord


the Lord of both Jews and Greeks

_____________________________________:unsure:
The gospel of the kingdom requires one to keep the law of Moses.

Are you now disagreeing with that?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The gospel of the kingdom requires one to keep the law of Moses.

Are you now disagreeing with that?

Acts 15, council in Jerusalem -- 48 AD

Acts 18, Apollo meets Aquilla & Priscilla -- 53 AD

Acts 19, Paul preaching the gospel of the kingdom -- 55 AD