Prayer of the Arminian, Charles Spurgeon
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sounds good but TOTALLY FALSE. This has no biblical basis whatsoever.
Those who believe -- those who obey the Gospel -- are elected and predestined for perfection. TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF GOD'S SON. Glorified and perfected (Rom 8:29,30; 1 John 3:1-3, and many other passages).
Those who believe -- those who obey the Gospel -- are elected and predestined for perfection. TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF GOD'S SON. Glorified and perfected (Rom 8:29,30; 1 John 3:1-3, and many other passages).
-
3
- Show all
7
well that's it
you are forced to be saved but you are not forced to behave yourself once and for all
I suppose Calvinists do not see the discrepancy there
but then it is your fault...I mean good grief man...that you have not understood the Bible
Calvinisim is not the gospel as it is presented in scripture
-
1
- Show all
7
Israel was told to choose who they wanted to serve
you conveniently leave that out
there are gifts, spiritual gifts, and God chooses who He gives them too
you can accept them or not
for instance, MacArthur believes they are from the devil
yet the Bible says they are from God
chose all day long we do
you conveniently leave that out
there are gifts, spiritual gifts, and God chooses who He gives them too
you can accept them or not
for instance, MacArthur believes they are from the devil
yet the Bible says they are from God
chose all day long we do
-
1
- Show all
Is this sequence of events important? It must be as the same sequence is noted many times and in many places in the Scripture. God is the Initiator, Prime Mover, and is the One with the Power that saves and enables. IMO there may be the illusion of free will in the matter of Salvation, but at its core, it is a Work of God from beginning to end.
Rom 8:29-30
"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
Rom 8:29-30
"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
-
1
- Show all
7
well I went and looked that up and you are right
there are multiple articles from which to choose to provide the proof below, so I just chose one as follows:
Ironically, John MacArthur presented this false teaching during a Question & Answer forum at his church titled Unleashing God's Truth One Verse at a Time. That those who receive the mark of the Beast will be able to be redeemed is a deadly deception that will cause multitudes to be eternally damned; for God has explicitly warned that anyone who receives the mark of the beast will be eternally tormented with fire:
source
there are multiple articles from which to choose to provide the proof below, so I just chose one as follows:
QUESTIONER: “Oh, my question is in regard to the latter half of the Tribulation period, when...when men will be required to have the mark of the beast in order to buy or sell. My question is once the person takes the mark, is there any possibility of Him coming to Christ?”
JOHN: “Yes, I think, you know, in the seven-year Tribulation coming in the future, we’re gonna get into this, so probably a week from Sunday night, maybe this Sunday night, maybe a week, I’m not sure. But the Tribulation is a seven-year period, right? The Rapture of the church, seven-year Tribulation, then Christ returns, sets up His Kingdom. Now, in that seven-year period, really two things happen. God begins to judge the world in...with a series of holocausts; and, at the same time, He begins to redeem His people Israel; and in the process of this, the antichrist establishes his rule; and in order to function in the economy of the antichrist, you have to take the mark of the beast. The mark being the number of a man, Revelation 13, 666. Six is the number of man, right? Seven is the number of perfection, and man always falls short of perfection, 666, always sixes, never seven. So the number of a man, and apparently what’s gonna happen, you take the mark on your hand or on your forehead; and we’ve talked a lot about that, you know, that...that that’s kind of the computer situation. We’re now moving fast toward the time when we’re going to have to do everything we do by cards and by numbers and all of that, and those number...the thing about a card that’s a problem is you lose it, and they’ve already devised systems to put the number on your hand and on your forehead, and you go through a scanner and, you know, that’s how you buy and sell. It’s automatically deducted from your bank account.
“Now, the question is, if you’re living in the Tribulation period, and you take this mark, in other words, you identify with the beast’s empire, will you still be able to be redeemed? And I think the answer to that is yes. Yes! Otherwise there would be no salvation of anybody in the end of the Tribulation; and you’ve got to have the salvation of folks in the end of the Tribulation. You’re gonna have the Jews redeemed. You’re gonna have, according to Revelation chapter 7, ‘An innumerable number of Gentiles redeemed, so many they can’t even be counted across the face of the earth.’ So I don’t think the fact that someone takes that is a sentence to, to permanency anymore than you being a part of this world system once in your life means you have to be a part of the system all your life. Well, especially when 144,000 don’t start their ministry till the second half. That’d make it a little tough.”
“Now, the question is, if you’re living in the Tribulation period, and you take this mark, in other words, you identify with the beast’s empire, will you still be able to be redeemed? And I think the answer to that is yes. Yes! Otherwise there would be no salvation of anybody in the end of the Tribulation; and you’ve got to have the salvation of folks in the end of the Tribulation. You’re gonna have the Jews redeemed. You’re gonna have, according to Revelation chapter 7, ‘An innumerable number of Gentiles redeemed, so many they can’t even be counted across the face of the earth.’ So I don’t think the fact that someone takes that is a sentence to, to permanency anymore than you being a part of this world system once in your life means you have to be a part of the system all your life. Well, especially when 144,000 don’t start their ministry till the second half. That’d make it a little tough.”
Ironically, John MacArthur presented this false teaching during a Question & Answer forum at his church titled Unleashing God's Truth One Verse at a Time. That those who receive the mark of the Beast will be able to be redeemed is a deadly deception that will cause multitudes to be eternally damned; for God has explicitly warned that anyone who receives the mark of the beast will be eternally tormented with fire:
“Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Rev. 14:9-11)
“And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)
“And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)
source
-
1
- Show all
7
the Bible speaks plainly but certain false teachers come along and disagree
MacArthur is a false teacher and a very dangerous one
Calvin was a murderous false teacher and it seems to me that some have the same kind of spirit he had
I am not accusing anyone here of having a murderous spirit...but it is what it is
MacArthur is a false teacher and a very dangerous one
Calvin was a murderous false teacher and it seems to me that some have the same kind of spirit he had
I am not accusing anyone here of having a murderous spirit...but it is what it is
this is what i was talking about. foreordained obey and are compelled to do so by irresistable will of God you said.
why is the obedience so lackluster in reformed circles then? just as bad as any other christian circles. God isnt willing and compelling enough holiness. thats why i said why is God doing such a poor job. surely God can compel and foreordain better than this? He is almighty and can do whatever so what better proof of regeneration than to make saved people walk perfectly.
dont give me excuses of progressive sanctification or we are sinful humans and bla bla. these are all lame excuses. truth is, you said the foreordained obey and are compelled to do so, yet they never do it perfectly, while God could easily cause them to do it, especially in calvinistic doctrine there is no excuse for it not to be perfect since its God given repentance.
in my view its not a problem if people act poorly, i can just say well he or she just didnt repent of that sin, unfortunately they refused to give up their alcohol. in calvinism its the opposite. unfortunately God didnt give him or her the repentance for that particular sin, God did a half-way job as usual in the sanctification, not enough compelling. the reformed dont say it like this because they know its an insult to God so they make excuses and inconsistensies instead of why this and why that.
you know there are entire websites dedicated to answering the many objections to calvinism and to promote the doctrine? thats not a good sign when you have so many problems and people misrepresent and misunderstand you so much that all rocks need to be turned aside to make the tulip fit the bible. verses need to be turned upside down and you dont even agree on how to twist the verses, sometimes world means jews and gentiles all nations, sometimes it means world of the elect, sometimes all means all kinds of men, sometimes it means all nationalities, pick and choose the twist. i dont know how to twist "Christ tasted death for every man" but i can believe its probably again every elect man.
why is the obedience so lackluster in reformed circles then? just as bad as any other christian circles. God isnt willing and compelling enough holiness. thats why i said why is God doing such a poor job. surely God can compel and foreordain better than this? He is almighty and can do whatever so what better proof of regeneration than to make saved people walk perfectly.
dont give me excuses of progressive sanctification or we are sinful humans and bla bla. these are all lame excuses. truth is, you said the foreordained obey and are compelled to do so, yet they never do it perfectly, while God could easily cause them to do it, especially in calvinistic doctrine there is no excuse for it not to be perfect since its God given repentance.
in my view its not a problem if people act poorly, i can just say well he or she just didnt repent of that sin, unfortunately they refused to give up their alcohol. in calvinism its the opposite. unfortunately God didnt give him or her the repentance for that particular sin, God did a half-way job as usual in the sanctification, not enough compelling. the reformed dont say it like this because they know its an insult to God so they make excuses and inconsistensies instead of why this and why that.
you know there are entire websites dedicated to answering the many objections to calvinism and to promote the doctrine? thats not a good sign when you have so many problems and people misrepresent and misunderstand you so much that all rocks need to be turned aside to make the tulip fit the bible. verses need to be turned upside down and you dont even agree on how to twist the verses, sometimes world means jews and gentiles all nations, sometimes it means world of the elect, sometimes all means all kinds of men, sometimes it means all nationalities, pick and choose the twist. i dont know how to twist "Christ tasted death for every man" but i can believe its probably again every elect man.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Rom 9
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”"
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”"