Paper Money and Fiat Currency is the Mark of the Beast

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Oct 24, 2019
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What is a practical alternative to fiat currency?
Gold and silver. It cannot be devalued because its value is based on its weight. 1 ounce of gold today is the same ounce of gold tomorrow. That is why these metals were used as money for thousands of years. It is good money, and stable, and rare enough to be valuable.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Just a moment ago you were gloating about how prosperous the American economy is, like a rich man who gloats about how beautiful his neighborhood is, but then every neighborhood around his is in misery. I have traveled the world, and I can tell you from firsthand experience I have seen extreme poverty, and probably the worst poverty I saw was in Egypt. Egypt has no reason to be so poor, it has ample natural resources at its disposal to be very rich, but they are impoverished through fiat currency. What they make in minimum wage in their fiat currency in one day is sufficient enough to buy food for one day in the US. Their fiat currency is utterly devalued. Do you not understand what is happening at a global scale through fiat currency? Do you not see what is happening in Venezuela, with people eating out of garbage cans, because of the devaluation of paper money? It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the common American is.
I wasn't gloating over how beautiful my neighborhood was. I was showing how basing a conclusion on an observation can lead to an erroneous conclusion.

I agree the people all over the world are suffering terribly. There has always been oppression, and there will be until God sets up his government.

I think a problem that's lurking beneath the surface in our discussion is causation vs. Correlation.

You say there are people in the USA with lots of debt. I agree.
You say Fiat money is used in the USA. I agree.

You conclude that Fiat money causes lots of debt. I disagree, or at least I say that there are several other factors.

Now, suppose I go to the lake. I see people in the water wearing bathing suits. I conclude that being in the water causes people to wear bathing suits.

Is this the right conclusion? No. Many of those people put on their bathing suits long before getting in the water.

So there is a correlation between being in the water and wearing a bathing suit. But the water does not cause a bathing suit.

Similarly, there is both high debt and Fiat money. this does not mean that Fiat money necessarily causes high debt.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,595
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Gold and silver. It cannot be devalued because its value is based on its weight. 1 ounce of gold today is the same ounce of gold tomorrow. That is why these metals were used as money for thousands of years. It is good money, and stable, and rare enough to be valuable.
It's never been worth zero either. Unfortunately, most employers don't pay their employees in gold.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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What is a practical alternative to fiat currency?
That's a great question! Remember that in the USA Fiat money came about as a result of the great depression of the 1930s.

The goal was that by manipulating the economy, the most severe aspects of the business cycle, the boom and the bust, could be controlled.

On the positive side, the USA has not experienced the same severity of economic depression since that time.

Imo!
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Yes, you have stolen from me.
Alright. So let us say that you decided to not redeem your gold with that "100 ounce" certificate that time you came to my bank 2 years after I issued you that certificate, and then 2 years later you come back to redeem your gold again, but this time your "100 ounce" certificate only redeems back 25 ounces of your gold. Have I stolen more from you?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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Alright. So let us say that you decided to not redeem your gold with that "100 ounce" certificate that time you came to my bank 2 years after I issued you that certificate, and then 2 years later you come back to redeem your gold again, but this time your "100 ounce" certificate only redeems back 25 ounces of your gold. Have I stolen more from you?
Yes, you have stolen more from me.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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I wasn't gloating over how beautiful my neighborhood was. I was showing how basing a conclusion on an observation can lead to an erroneous conclusion.

I agree the people all over the world are suffering terribly. There has always been oppression, and there will be until God sets up his government.

I think a problem that's lurking beneath the surface in our discussion is causation vs. Correlation.

You say there are people in the USA with lots of debt. I agree.
You say Fiat money is used in the USA. I agree.

You conclude that Fiat money causes lots of debt. I disagree, or at least I say that there are several other factors.

Now, suppose I go to the lake. I see people in the water wearing bathing suits. I conclude that being in the water causes people to wear bathing suits.

Is this the right conclusion? No. Many of those people put on their bathing suits long before getting in the water.

So there is a correlation between being in the water and wearing a bathing suit. But the water does not cause a bathing suit.

Similarly, there is both high debt and Fiat money. this does not mean that Fiat money necessarily causes high debt.
Let us go back to you and I reasoning together in our other conversation, the me storing your gold example. We are going to get no where in these side conversations.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Yes, you have stolen more from me.
And let us say you decided to not redeem your gold this time either, and let us say 2 years later I issued a new policy for my bank and sent a letter to everyone that had gold in my bank, "certificates issued by my bank will no longer redeem your gold at my bank, however you may continue using my certificates to buy and sell among yourselves just like you did when they were redeemable in gold at my bank". Have I stolen from you, yes or no?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,595
17,059
113
69
Tennessee
Alright. So let us say that you decided to not redeem your gold with that "100 ounce" certificate that time you came to my bank 2 years after I issued you that certificate, and then 2 years later you come back to redeem your gold again, but this time your "100 ounce" certificate only redeems back 25 ounces of your gold. Have I stolen more from you?
I believe that's called a transaction fee.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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And let us say you decided to not redeem your gold this time either, and let us say 2 years later I issued a new policy for my bank and sent a letter to everyone that had gold in my bank, "certificates issued by my bank will no longer redeem your gold at my bank, however you may continue using my certificates to buy and sell among yourselves just like you did when they were redeemable in gold at my bank". Have I stolen from you, yes or no?
Yes, you have stolen from me.
 
Oct 24, 2019
302
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Yes, you have stolen from me.
In just a few questions I have explained the history of how the fiat currency that exists globally today came to be. People didn't buy and sell with paper money off the bat overnight, and in fact, someone 200 years ago would've laughed in your face if you gave them one of those pretty $100 dollar bills you have in your wallet to try to buy something from them, because they would've seen it as merely paper, and that is precisely what it is, paper. For thousands of years people bought and sold with gold and silver, but then around the early 1930s the US did something, and by executive order commanded that everyone in America trade in their gold for certificates, at around $20 USD per 1 ozt of gold, and the certificates were redeemable in gold at the bank, which is why early Federal Reserve notes have redeemable in gold marks written on the paper themselves. Then around 2 years later, the paper certificates were devalued to around $35 USD per 1 ozt of gold, which is truly when the thievery began, through devaluation. Then the devaluation continued on for decades, and then around the 1970s the certificates were no longer redeemable in gold, which is why our bills no longer have redeemable in gold written on them, which is when the certificates essentially became "paper money" and "fiat currency", a money in of itself with a perceived imaginary value given to it that was no longer associated with the gold it was originally issued to represent. So what we're really buying and selling with are certificates with a perceived imaginary value, which we call money, that is deliberately devalued more and more, so that they can steal more through debt, because as incomes and savings lag behind the devaluation, then people are forced to go into debt, with interest, so essentially they become the owners of everything, not just the gold they stole previously, but everything, houses through mortgages, cars through auto loans, possessions through credit cards, everything..... all through the certificates they issued, the paper money, the fiat currency. It is a ponzi scheme of epic proportions, which is understood only by the few who understand the commands of the Torah regarding money and the mark of the beast. This is why when these certificates were first issued around the 1900s around 4 British pounds, 21 American dollars, 21 Colombian pesos were all around 1ozt of gold, but now today the same ounce of gold is around 1,155 british pounds, around 1,500 American dollars, and around 164,000 Colombian pesos. It is massive thievery. And this is why the names of our currencies are names of weights, "pounds", "pesos" (which means weights in Spanish), and "dollars", for these were all weights in gold. The world has been robbed and deceived.

 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
In just a few questions I have explained the history of how the fiat currency that exists globally today came to be. People didn't buy and sell with paper money off the bat overnight, and in fact, someone 200 years ago would've laughed in your face if you gave them one of those pretty $100 dollar bills you have in your wallet to try to buy something from them, because they would've seen it as merely paper, and that is precisely what it is, paper. For thousands of years people bought and sold with gold and silver, but then around the early 1930s the US did something, and by executive order commanded that everyone in America trade in their gold for certificates, at around $20 USD per 1 ozt of gold, and the certificates were redeemable in gold at the bank, which is why early Federal Reserve notes have redeemable in gold marks written on the paper themselves. Then around 2 years later, the paper certificates were devalued to around $35 USD per 1 ozt of gold, which is truly when the thievery began, through devaluation. Then the devaluation continued on for decades, and then around the 1970s the certificates were no longer redeemable in gold, which is why our bills no longer have redeemable in gold written on them, which is when the certificates essentially became "paper money" and "fiat currency", a money in of itself with a perceived imaginary value given to it that was no longer associated with the gold it was originally issued to represent. So what we're really buying and selling with are certificates with a perceived imaginary value, which we call money, that is deliberately devalued more and more, so that they can steal more through debt, because as incomes and savings lag behind the devaluation, then people are forced to go into debt, with interest, so essentially they become the owners of everything, not just the gold they stole previously, but everything, houses through mortgages, cars through auto loans, possessions through credit cards, everything..... all through the certificates they issued, the paper money, the fiat currency. It is a ponzi scheme of epic proportions, which is understood only by the few who understand the commands of the Torah regarding money and the mark of the beast. This is why when these certificates were first issued around the 1900s around 4 British pounds, 21 American dollars, 21 Colombian pesos were all around 1ozt of gold, but now today the same ounce of gold is around 1,155 british pounds, around 1,500 American dollars, and around 164,000 Colombian pesos. It is massive thievery. And this is why the names of our currencies are names of weights, "pounds", "pesos" (which means weights in Spanish), and "dollars", for these were all weights in gold. The world has been robbed and deceived.

Yes, that is essentially the history of Fiat money, though I think you left out a few very important details.

But before we talk about those details, do you use the terms
Fiat money
And
Paper money
Interchangeably?
 
Oct 24, 2019
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Yes, that is essentially the history of Fiat money, though I think you left out a few very important details.

But before we talk about those details, do you use the terms
Fiat money
And
Paper money
Interchangeably?
And still you refuse to understand why paper money and fiat currency is evil?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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And still you refuse to understand why paper money and fiat currency is evil?
I understand why you believe it to be evil. But as I said I believe you left out some details.

I answered your questions directly.
Please answer this one.

do you use the terms
Fiat money
And
Paper money
Interchangeably?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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Where does gold come from how’s it made?
I think it comes from rocks.

Heat up the rocks in the gold flows out.

It all belongs to God, in the sense that God owns the heavens and the Earth.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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I think it comes from rocks.

Heat up the rocks in the gold flows out.

It all belongs to God, in the sense that God owns the heavens and the Earth.
That’s one way to extract some gold from rocks, gold has a lower melting point than most rocks.
 
Oct 24, 2019
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I understand why you believe it to be evil. But as I said I believe you left out some details.

I answered your questions directly.
Please answer this one.

do you use the terms
Fiat money
And
Paper money
Interchangeably?
And that's precisely the problem, it's not that we can't see the obvious robbery and devaluation in history to prove that this form of money is evil, which you even admitted in my examples that correlate with history that I would be stealing from you, but it's that you do not want to believe that this form of money is evil. It's not that it isn't evil, it's that you do not want to believe it is evil. This was the same problem the Pharisees had, they wanted to see signs, and even though the Messiah didn't give them signs in their face, they had plenty of signs around them that Yeshuah performed to see that he truly was the Messiah, but because they did not want to believe, they discarded all the evident signs. It's not the he wasn't the Messiah, or that the signs weren't there, they just did not want to believe. They refused to believe. And that is the problem with you. In whatever way I tell you, with examples, logical explanations, even photographs that could be considered references, you still refuse to believe the truth that paper money and fiat currency is evil, which in turn, fulfills the prophecy of the mark of the beast, because everyone has it. I can't help you, you'll just have to learn things the hard way in a few years that indeed everything I told you was true.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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How much does a average computer cost people.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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And that's precisely the problem, it's not that we can't see the obvious robbery and devaluation in history to prove that this form of money is evil, which you even admitted in my examples that correlate with history that I would be stealing from you, but it's that you do not want to believe that this form of money is evil. It's not that it isn't evil, it's that you do not want to believe it is evil. This was the same problem the Pharisees had, they wanted to see signs, and even though the Messiah didn't give them signs in their face, they had plenty of signs around them that Yeshuah performed to see that he truly was the Messiah, but because they did not want to believe, they discarded all the evident signs. It's not the he wasn't the Messiah, or that the signs weren't there, they just did not want to believe. They refused to believe. And that is the problem with you. In whatever way I tell you, with examples, logical explanations, even photographs that could be considered references, you still refuse to believe the truth that paper money and fiat currency is evil, which in turn, fulfills the prophecy of the mark of the beast, because everyone has it. I can't help you, you'll just have to learn things the hard way in a few years that indeed everything I told you was true.
I'm disappointed. I answered your questions directly. I expected that you were planning to do the same. But you have not answered my question directly.

If you will answer my questions directly, I believe I can show you that your conclusion that Fiat money causes robbery is incorrect.
 
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