some people resurrected to where?

[Melach]

hello friends. this recently has been on my mind. in the verses i post below its saying heaven and earth flee away, and then st.john sees the dead small and great stand before God. my question is where are they standing if the earth is already destroyed and the new one hasnt been created yet? btw this looks like it refutes amillennialism completely because they say rev 20:11 is second coming, that would mean God has to destroy earth before rapture happens, that would be crazy we would all be crisp.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

new heaven and earth are only created after this in revelation 21.

what do you say friends?

 

[tourist]

What is known for sure is that they will be standing before God. Remember, Jesus walked on water so a firm ground for standing is not necessarily essential in the presence of God.

 

[Noose]

It is all spiritual, nothing physical.

Sounds weird but even the current heavens and earth are our own consciousness as much as they seem so physical and separate from ourselves.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 14:10–12 “For we will all stand before God’s judgment
seat... So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.”

2 Corinthians 5:10 “We must all appear before the judgment seat
of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things
done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

Bema Seat. <~ Further explanation More here.

 

[Melach]

It is all spiritual, nothing physical.

Sounds weird but even the current heavens and earth are our own consciousness as much as they seem so physical and separate from ourselves.

what

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is all spiritual, nothing physical.

1 John 4:2-3a -

" 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come [perfect participle] in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not of God, and this is that of the antichrist, [...]"

2 John 1:7 -

"7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."


Do you see any distinction between the phrases there ^ (and here):

--"having come [perfect participle] in flesh"; and

--"coming [present participle] in flesh"


When viewing all that Jesus said regarding "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" and "the age [singular] to come"... and His use of the word "RETURN" [Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 and Lk19:12,15,17,19] and the phrases "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come," and all the related passages, like Rev19:15b use of the "[FUTURE] He SHALL shepherd them [the nations]" (along with grasping that Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 is parallel time-wise with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] FOLLOWED by a PERIOD OF TIME before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words is used/carried out), and the [only] TWO mentions of "KING" in all of the epistles (and both of them being "FUTURE"), and so many more... It becomes clear that He is indeed returning to judge and to reign (and that "the 12" will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel"... way too many passages to mention here!)

 

[Noose]

what

1 John 4:2-3a -

" 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come [perfect participle] in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not of God, and this is that of the antichrist, [...]"

2 John 1:7 -

"7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."


Do you see any distinction between the phrases there ^ (and here):



2 John 1:7 -

"7 For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."


Do you see any distinction between the phrases there ^ (and here):

@TheDivineWatermark, you misunderstood me. I'm not denying Jesus came in the flesh but look at things from a different perspective and align with what the bible says:

Gen 3:7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

The above statement is evidence enough that there is another dimension that is not physical. It doesn't mean that Adam and Eve had their eyes closed before sinning; it means they were in another dimension only that sin brought about the physical. What God created was not physical but the fallen world is physical because of man. It still doesn't change the fact that the world is nothing more than our collective consciousness. If we all happen to pass away now, even the sun and the moon and the earth will disappear in a flush.

I don't know how but look at this:

2 Pet 3:5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

1. The old world (Heavens and earth) is said to have perished when the ungodly men were swept by the flood.
2. The current world (heavens and earth) existed or was preserved through the 8 (Noah and his family).
3. The current world is reserved for fire through which the ungodly will perish
4. It is also worthy to note that in Rev, the new heavens and new earth will be through the 144k that God will preserve just like the 8 in Noah's time.

So clearly, the heavens and earth are within men's consciousness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Even though verse 11 appears to say that the New Heavens and the New Earth have already been established, we know from the next chapter that that happens only AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment. (Everything is not always perfectly chronological in the Bible).

 

[MattforJesus]

hello friends. this recently has been on my mind. in the verses i post below its saying heaven and earth flee away, and then st.john sees the dead small and great stand before God. my question is where are they standing if the earth is already destroyed and the new one hasnt been created yet? btw this looks like it refutes amillennialism completely because they say rev 20:11 is second coming, that would mean God has to destroy earth before rapture happens, that would be crazy we would all be crisp.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

new heaven and earth are only created after this in revelation 21.

what do you say friends?

This heaven and earth is of the physical, and temporary, and will pass away one day.

Which God said that He will make a new heaven and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind.

Which Jesus said He goes away to make a place for the saints that where He is at they may be also, which is the new heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem.

Which the new heaven and earth is a place wherein dwells righteousness, which is a place where sin has never been, and sin will never be.

Which this earth shall burn up and all the works of it, and be dissolved, and the heavens shall melt with fervent heat, and dissolve, which all sin must be purged with fire, and this heaven and earth have to be purged with fire, and pass away for they have been tainted with sin, which Lucifer tainted heaven when he rebelled, and people tainted earth when they rebelled.

Which the wicked shall go in to the lower parts of the earth, which is hell and death, and hell and death shall be cast in to the lake of fire, so the earth shall be cast in to the lake of fire.

Jesus said not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law until all is fulfilled, which Jesus fulfilled the law for He is a sinless man, and all of the roles of Israel pertaining to their operation, for He is the perfect King, perfect High Priest, Prophet, Saint, temple, and sacrifice, and whatever else He had to fulfill.

But He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet for He came as a humble servant, and the law must be fulfilled on earth.

Which is what the millennial reign of Christ is about when Jesus fulfills the role of perfect King on earth, which the LORD shall be King over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, which the heathen shall not acknowledge any god, or religious figure but Jesus, which are the people that God spared when He fought the world at the battle of Armageddon so Jesus and the saints can rule over them.

When the millennial reign is over heaven and earth shall pass away, and be no more for they are physical, and tainted with sin and cannot be redone.

Then the dead shall rise to be judged at the great white throne judgment, and because heaven and earth passed away does not mean they do not have a place to stand, and they will not be in the flesh.

Then the saints will go to the New Jerusalem their final destination, where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and rebellion will never come up again, and the former heaven and earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind for they are associated with sin and rebellion, and the angels and saints will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem, but believe they have always been there and nowhere else.

 

[dcontroversal]

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard --->So clearly, the heavens and earth are within men's consciousness.

 

[Melach]

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard --->So clearly, the heavens and earth are within men's consciousness.

this forum has made me see strange statements. but i notice this is only on internet do you agree its not that common in real world to see this ?

but maybe its just my consciousness

 

[Noose]

One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard --->So clearly, the heavens and earth are within men's consciousness.

Yes it sounded weird and ridiculous to me too but the more i think about it and the more i read the bible, it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day. The universe is our collective consciousness. God did not make a physical universe but remodeled our consciousness, from Himself, to what it is now. It is our consciousness (our fallen state) that 'sees','hears', 'touches- creates the physical universe.

So, when we pass away, it is said that the universe has passed away but when we are saved, the universe is also saved:

Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that h the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

Col 1:20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds.

 

[Noose]

.....and the former heaven and earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind for they are associated with sin and rebellion, and the angels and saints will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem, but believe they have always been there and nowhere else.

The old heavens and earth (former things) shall not come to mind literally because it is in the minds of men that all existence is

 

[garee]

hello friends. this recently has been on my mind. in the verses i post below its saying heaven and earth flee away, and then st.john sees the dead small and great stand before God. my question is where are they standing if the earth is already destroyed and the new one hasnt been created yet? btw this looks like it refutes amillennialism completely because they say rev 20:11 is second coming, that would mean God has to destroy earth before rapture happens, that would be crazy we would all be crisp.


Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

new heaven and earth are only created after this in revelation 21.

what do you say friends?

I would offer. To stand or sit can be interpreted as literal standing , or spiritual in the presence of a unseen spirit . Like for instance God is said to sit enthroned on the circle of the world and its inhabitants as grasshoppers. . . hopping today . . . gone tomorrow

The picture is... its the end of time the last day . The Sun and the moon are no longer needed to represent the temporal. The glory is revealed in the next chapter . Revelation 21. We will walk in the non created Light . God is light, God is Love and God is Spirit, together make up the essence of God. No darkness in Him

The dead are those dead asleep 4 days like Lazarus .Not literally dead as in . . . never to rise to the new spirit life . That kind is freely given to those who do beleive as the living word of God works in them providing the new creation a righteousness of faith imputed for as many as the father gave to the Son. As Christians the new name God named as a interpretation his bride the church. She has been given a new incorruptible born again spirit. . . it will rise on the last day. .

I would suggest one resurrection, two deaths .The first the departure of glory in Geneisis. and the second the end of that law as in dying death anilation will occur. The wrath of God revealed from heaven.

That would be when those on earth reigning as planters of the seed or waterers of the gospel seed, and those gospel workers who had fallen asleep. They meet together to receive the goal of their new faith, a incorruptible body all died not receiving it. . Death as the letter of the law that shows our hopelessness is tossed into the lake of fire as the judgment of God. . . . never again will rise up to condemn a entire creation.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.Revelation 21:22-26

 

[dcontroversal]

this forum has made me see strange statements. but i notice this is only on internet do you agree its not that common in real world to see this ?

but maybe its just my consciousness

Deal with people long enough and the fruit of ignorance and idiocy will come out!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes it sounded weird and ridiculous to me too but the more i think about it and the more i read the bible, it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day. The universe is our collective consciousness. God did not make a physical universe but remodeled our consciousness, from Himself, to what it is now. It is our consciousness (our fallen state) that 'sees','hears', 'touches- creates the physical universe.

So, when we pass away, it is said that the universe has passed away but when we are saved, the universe is also saved:

Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that h the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

Col 1:20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds.

wrong.....Creation is physical and was done BEFORE ONE MAN WAS MADE WHICH MAKES your hypothesis not only impossible, but lacking any honest evaluation, creedance and or cognative reasoning....

 

[garee]

@TheDivineWatermark, you misunderstood me. I'm not denying Jesus came in the flesh but look at things from a different perspective and align with what the bible says:

Gen 3:7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

The above statement is evidence enough that there is another dimension that is not physical. It doesn't mean that Adam and Eve had their eyes closed before sinning; it means they were in another dimension only that sin brought about the physical. What God created was not physical but the fallen world is physical because of man. It still doesn't change the fact that the world is nothing more than our collective consciousness. If we all happen to pass away now, even the sun and the moon and the earth will disappear in a flush.

I don't know how but look at this:

2 Pet 3:5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

1. The old world (Heavens and earth) is said to have perished when the ungodly men were swept by the flood.
2. The current world (heavens and earth) existed or was preserved through the 8 (Noah and his family).
3. The current world is reserved for fire through which the ungodly will perish
4. It is also worthy to note that in Rev, the new heavens and new earth will be through the 144k that God will preserve just like the 8 in Noah's time.

So clearly, the heavens and earth are within men's consciousness.

Yes, a result of the fall. The glory of God departed. It would seem that Adam and Eve lost the glow of being in the presence of God Like Moses when he came down form mount Sinai with the law as it is was written by the finger of God . Things became defined and they tried to cover it with their own kind of glory using the things seen . Not walking by faith after that not seen the eternal .

 

[Sipsey]

Yes it sounded weird and ridiculous to me too but the more i think about it and the more i read the bible, it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day. The universe is our collective consciousness. God did not make a physical universe but remodeled our consciousness, from Himself, to what it is now. It is our consciousness (our fallen state) that 'sees','hears', 'touches- creates the physical universe.

So, when we pass away, it is said that the universe has passed away but when we are saved, the universe is also saved:

Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that h the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

Col 1:20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds.

If you indeed think “everything” in in your mind and reality is simply what you think, then maybe your idea of god is a figment of your imagination.

 

[Noose]

wrong.....Creation is physical and was done BEFORE ONE MAN WAS MADE WHICH MAKES your hypothesis not only impossible, but lacking any honest evaluation, creedance and or cognative reasoning....

So how come the sons of God rejoiced during the universe creation?

Job 38:
4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know!
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its foundations set,
or who laid its cornerstone,b
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Noose]

If you indeed think “everything” in in your mind and reality is simply what you think, then maybe your idea of god is a figment of your imagination.

Ezek 23:35Therefore, this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because you have forgotten Me and have cast Me behind your back, you must bear the consequences of your indecency and prostitution.’”

Jer 31:
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.

34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
For I will forgive their iniquities
and will remember their sins no more.”