Not By Works
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Don't understand your statement about how much pleasure you must give God: we are created for His pleasure, and as we life for His praise and not selfish ambitions, we bring Joy to Him, and "The Joy of the Lord is our strength." And He causes us to overcome the world. "In the world you will have troubke but be of good cheer I have overcome the world." Are you saying that as the image of God is restored in us, God sees Himself in us and takes pleasure in us. Or the opposite, that he is not surprised if we remain in sin; while thinking we know the Truth. I'm finding more even as you said yourself earlier, that "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he sould." If we think we know God, we stop learning. Much like Solomon who was given wisdom and relied on His gift rather than on God, and there is no mention of Him coming to repentance when he fell. Some think they know what it means to be dead to sin whereas they are dead in sin and unable to do anything to be saved. It appears God caused blindness in part to those who desire control, "Ever learning but unable to come to the knowlege of the Truth." As "Love does not insisinsist on it's own Way." Those who insist that there is nothing they can do to be saved will have what they say.
From having to be perfect. From guilt. From performing animal sacrifice. From carrying the burden of sin. From guilt. We do not have to follow the law perfectly and if we don't only find death. With the infinite value of the Blood of Jesus we know our sins are truly forgiven, and through belief and faith find life. We do not have to carry our sins with us day upon day upon day until we go through the ritual of animal sacrifice. We do not have to go through a priest to talk with God. We do not have to "pay" a penalty. We have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us.
Christ gave us what the law could not. The law could not redeem us. Could not forgive us. Could not give us life. Could not make us holy. Could not justify us. Could not make us righteous. We could not be sanctified.
We rest in Christ. We are living light and easy especially compared with the "old" way. To be forgiven for the sin is a matter of repentance and with that change an asking for forgiveness, and being forgiven washed clean our burden lifted.
None of that changes why we were created. And that was to give God pleasure. If God was looking for "replicants" He would have just created us without free will. Resting in Christ doesn't mean we stop doing for God. God has given us "actions" to follow. Go, teach, Baptize. Proclaim the Word through out the world. Help the poor. Study the Word a worker who need not be ashamed. Look at all the places Paul went and taught and set up churches, and never got paid but worked on the side. The rest from our labours come in the New Jerusalem. If everyone had started "resting" 2000 yrs ago, what would we know now? And our works do follow us.
So this insane thought of don't do work you are already saved goes against all God tells us to do. once we have accepted Christ and been gifted Salvation. Salvation is the START of the journey, and working from that point on isn't to be saved because you already are. But it must come across that way for some "things" to continue. Those things just don't make sense to me.
Christ gave us what the law could not. The law could not redeem us. Could not forgive us. Could not give us life. Could not make us holy. Could not justify us. Could not make us righteous. We could not be sanctified.
We rest in Christ. We are living light and easy especially compared with the "old" way. To be forgiven for the sin is a matter of repentance and with that change an asking for forgiveness, and being forgiven washed clean our burden lifted.
None of that changes why we were created. And that was to give God pleasure. If God was looking for "replicants" He would have just created us without free will. Resting in Christ doesn't mean we stop doing for God. God has given us "actions" to follow. Go, teach, Baptize. Proclaim the Word through out the world. Help the poor. Study the Word a worker who need not be ashamed. Look at all the places Paul went and taught and set up churches, and never got paid but worked on the side. The rest from our labours come in the New Jerusalem. If everyone had started "resting" 2000 yrs ago, what would we know now? And our works do follow us.
So this insane thought of don't do work you are already saved goes against all God tells us to do. once we have accepted Christ and been gifted Salvation. Salvation is the START of the journey, and working from that point on isn't to be saved because you already are. But it must come across that way for some "things" to continue. Those things just don't make sense to me.
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That was in reaction to a post about Resting in action resting in ??? and resting in ???. Don't remember what they were but it all comes down to rest cause Christ did it perfect and you have been given....so you don't even try, rest from law, rest from work rest. That comment was about if you do nothing depending on all to be done for you , you always stay the exact same. What kind of pleasure does that bring to God???
If the only thing that follows you when you move on to the next stage, is your works, yet you keep being told "don't work because you cant add to salvation", the end result of that is making works look bad when in fact they are good and are not only what follow you but also the only things that forward the Word of God. That is all I was saying.
If the only thing that follows you when you move on to the next stage, is your works, yet you keep being told "don't work because you cant add to salvation", the end result of that is making works look bad when in fact they are good and are not only what follow you but also the only things that forward the Word of God. That is all I was saying.
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From the perspective we have, wether desiring control or seeking first the kingdom of heaven; the Truth will be hiden or open to us. If we are involved in dead works of desirdesiring control: rebellion the sin of witchcraft, no mather how much we try to preach dead works, would remain religious with nothing we could do to seek the Lord first, as our heart is to be with our treasure. This is why we pray that the Lord grant repentance. Repentance is Grace, the influence of God in our heart by His Spirit: in union with God we are changed, in the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformed to His death that we may attain to the Resurrectuon: to be like Him. He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with Him. These will rule with Christ in the Resurrection.
What does the WORD SAY???
Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Nope, nothing we can do to be justified.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets
Christ has come, He has walked the way the law was intended to make us walk, rightly. Did it Gods way. To put God first, His ways above our ways until His ways become our ways so that we could walk with Him. We can only walk with Him in His way He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. We "practice" until we become natural in His ways. Our stumbles and falls able to be quickly forgiven.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference
Not only in the faith that Jesus is the son of God, but He showed us perfectly what walking with God looks like
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
FYI
2435 hilasterion propitiatory
a sin offering by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitation
the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement
the well-known cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins were expiated)
from
2433 hilaskomai to be propitious, make propitiation for
I have mercy on, show favor to,
of sins: I forgive, pardon
showing mercy by satisfying the wrath of God on sin
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
It is through our belief not only IN Him but in THE WORKS He accomplished for the Father
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
We can not boast in anything we do as being the cause of our justification before God. We are justified by faith
.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
ALL are justified by faith and faith only.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
No, it is through our faith in Christ and all His works, that the goodness of the law is establish.
So we have been gifted salvation. Where do we go from here? So we have been justified through Christ. Where do we go from here? We have been made righteous. Where do we go from here?
I don't know where others go but for me, my love of God, my love of His Holiness, my love of His ways makes me want to share the Truth of Him, the Truth of the Word, the Truth of His Plan with the world. It does not come from a stand point of "what will I get if I do?" because I have already received all that I need. It comes from a place of pure love for MY FATHER and the love for His children, my brethren, and the intense dislike of evil and of all who stand opposed to Gods Plan, that I move forward from being "saved". It is not to "add to my salvation" (if that is even possible) , it is to ADD to God anyone who can be saved through the Word.
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Nope, nothing we can do to be justified.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets
Christ has come, He has walked the way the law was intended to make us walk, rightly. Did it Gods way. To put God first, His ways above our ways until His ways become our ways so that we could walk with Him. We can only walk with Him in His way He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. We "practice" until we become natural in His ways. Our stumbles and falls able to be quickly forgiven.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference
Not only in the faith that Jesus is the son of God, but He showed us perfectly what walking with God looks like
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
FYI
2435 hilasterion propitiatory
a sin offering by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitation
the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement
the well-known cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins were expiated)
from
2433 hilaskomai to be propitious, make propitiation for
I have mercy on, show favor to,
of sins: I forgive, pardon
showing mercy by satisfying the wrath of God on sin
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
It is through our belief not only IN Him but in THE WORKS He accomplished for the Father
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
We can not boast in anything we do as being the cause of our justification before God. We are justified by faith
.
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
ALL are justified by faith and faith only.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
No, it is through our faith in Christ and all His works, that the goodness of the law is establish.
So we have been gifted salvation. Where do we go from here? So we have been justified through Christ. Where do we go from here? We have been made righteous. Where do we go from here?
I don't know where others go but for me, my love of God, my love of His Holiness, my love of His ways makes me want to share the Truth of Him, the Truth of the Word, the Truth of His Plan with the world. It does not come from a stand point of "what will I get if I do?" because I have already received all that I need. It comes from a place of pure love for MY FATHER and the love for His children, my brethren, and the intense dislike of evil and of all who stand opposed to Gods Plan, that I move forward from being "saved". It is not to "add to my salvation" (if that is even possible) , it is to ADD to God anyone who can be saved through the Word.
Any words for God on that??? That statement really hasn't taught me anything, has it? Just kinda condemning me without any building back up from the Truth in the Word.
I don't understand how my use of quotation marks "enlightens" you as to my knowledge or lack thereof. Please, give me scripture as I have done of how "rest" is to be understood.
I don't understand how my use of quotation marks "enlightens" you as to my knowledge or lack thereof. Please, give me scripture as I have done of how "rest" is to be understood.
My works have nothing to do with anything but my love of the Father. What I am trying to say is "BEING SAVED IS THE START OF THE JOURNEY" and to move on. Encourage others to move out of the starting gate. Don't discourage works for God. Jesus worked, not for a promotion, but out of love for the Father and the brethren. Paul worked, not for a promotion but out of love for the Father. We should work not for a promotion but out of love of the Father.
So when I posted this,"Yes, Savedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsaved…..and then there was more to Gods Word/Plan. How's that promotion going??" It was about trying to get past "the gift of salvation". How's that promotion going?? was about how "un" fulfilling and unproductive just being saved is after you have been there for such a long time. It has nothing to do with me being selfish, though you seeing it that way is, in fact, interesting to me.
So when I posted this,"Yes, Savedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsavedsaved…..and then there was more to Gods Word/Plan. How's that promotion going??" It was about trying to get past "the gift of salvation". How's that promotion going?? was about how "un" fulfilling and unproductive just being saved is after you have been there for such a long time. It has nothing to do with me being selfish, though you seeing it that way is, in fact, interesting to me.
I agree, just as its written, If a man does not work he should not eat." That this aplies spiritually, "Faith works by Love." We will never be satisfied unless we walk along with God in His Work, in the Love of God. Those who remain quarelsome, being unchanged, and say you can do nothing to be saved, show that they don't have "Faith that Works by Love." It sais, "Because they received not the Love of the Truth, God sent them strong delusions that they would believe a lie." The lie is the absence of Love." "Without Love I am nothing."
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Google eh, those guys look like they are having so much fun chatting it up! 
I belong to a home Bible Study Group, of seniors, they where we study the Bible, then we sit around the dinning room table and drink coffee, and eat an dessert. I think that Fellowship with like minded Christians is a very good thing.
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We come to Christ because the Father draws us to Him.
(John 6:44, Jeremiah 31:3)
We were dead in sin, and not made fully aware of that, until after we were born again and brought to life by His Holy Spirit.
(Ephesians 2:1-6, Colossians 2:13, Luke 15:24)
You seemed to have "cherry picked" verses out of context to paint a picture that isn't seen in the Scriptures.
For example...
"Save yourself from this untoward generation".
Acts 2:39-40
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
This is spoken to first century Jews at Pentecost, but is acceptable for all in proper context.
(Romans 3:29-30, 2 Timothy 3:15-16)
"The wize shall understand but none of the wicked shall understand."
Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
This is not doctrinal treatise for promoting obedience, but rather, the way things will be in the end.
It aligns with Revelation 22:11.
"Because they received not the Love of the Truth, God sent them strong delusions,"
2 Thessalonians 2:7-10
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.
Verse 7 clearly states "the mystery of lawlessness is already at work".
"Few are permitted to go on to perfection----------To grow up in Him."
Ephesians 4:13-15
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Your twisting of the Scriptures, (2 Peter 3:16) indicates that you are not in the present truth. (2 Peter1:12)
(John 6:44, Jeremiah 31:3)
We were dead in sin, and not made fully aware of that, until after we were born again and brought to life by His Holy Spirit.
(Ephesians 2:1-6, Colossians 2:13, Luke 15:24)
You seemed to have "cherry picked" verses out of context to paint a picture that isn't seen in the Scriptures.
For example...
"Save yourself from this untoward generation".
Acts 2:39-40
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
This is spoken to first century Jews at Pentecost, but is acceptable for all in proper context.
(Romans 3:29-30, 2 Timothy 3:15-16)
"The wize shall understand but none of the wicked shall understand."
Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
This is not doctrinal treatise for promoting obedience, but rather, the way things will be in the end.
It aligns with Revelation 22:11.
"Because they received not the Love of the Truth, God sent them strong delusions,"
2 Thessalonians 2:7-10
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.
Verse 7 clearly states "the mystery of lawlessness is already at work".
"Few are permitted to go on to perfection----------To grow up in Him."
Ephesians 4:13-15
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Your twisting of the Scriptures, (2 Peter 3:16) indicates that you are not in the present truth. (2 Peter1:12)
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