Are Those Who Have Fallen Away in Hebrews 6:4-8 Born-Again?

[seed_time_harvest]

It makes it crucial in looking at the foundation of the doctrine of God. Hebrew 6 . We cannot offer what we perform outwardly toward God as our confidence. Our confidence is. . he promises us if he has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it to the end the last day. (Philippian 1:6) Our living hope that moves us forward is the hope of new incorruptible bodies. . . all die not receiving..Hope seen is not hope


Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


Hebrews 11:1Now faith (Christ's) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. . . . . Let there be and there is.

Our new born again faith that we have been freely given is not of us. But is the faith of Christ working in us giving us ears to hear and a willing heart to submit.

Hebrews 6:1 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God , Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

The phrase above " not laying again" represents them that fall away to renew them again and again .They crucify Christ over and over again and again as if one work was not enough for him to satisfy the just demands of the law. We are not saved by the faith we have towards him but rather that which works in us coming from him . Our amen so be it.


Hebrews ^: 6 King James Version (KJV) 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God is not served by the temporal things seen. The laying on hands of men .They are ceremonial in nature .They do not move one closer or create a distance. . simply shadows of a hope .

yes If It were possible to fall away or else GODs Incorruptible seed would be corruptible,right?

Or this would be talking about the flesh can be corrupted but not the Spirit which was born Again of Incorruptible seed.

 

[Whispered]

You didn't answer my questions. Not gonna move forward with another letter till this one is squared away.

Are YOU a born again Child of God?

You dodge questions so as to divert to that?

I've read you confront another member here. You repeatedly challenged them in a different thread to prove to your satisfaction why they believe they have faith. Why they believe they are in Christ. Over and over, you insist they must do this to satisfy you.
That examples numerous sins of the ego for which you should be repentant, not repetitive in moving on to a different member, me, so as to continue that offense.

That isn't going to happen here. You've answered my questions. And all I have to do to get the other answers as to what parts of TULIP you do ascribe to, which you have defended in numerous threads those particular parts so it is easy to find, and they're not able to be edited now.

And if so, do you REALLY believe you can do something that will cause Your ABBA to toss His little girl into the lake of fire?

Now you are the one confused. I never said I believe a person can lose their Salvation. I stated there are those here who have said they do believe that.

 

[PennEd]

You dodge questions so as to divert to that?

I've read you confront another member here. You repeatedly challenged them in a different thread to prove to your satisfaction why they believe they have faith. Why they believe they are in Christ. Over and over, you insist they must do this to satisfy you.
That examples numerous sins of the ego for which you should be repentant, not repetitive in moving on to a different member, me, so as to continue that offense.

That isn't going to happen here. You've answered my questions. And all I have to do to get the other answers as to what parts of TULIP you do ascribe to, which you have defended in numerous threads those particular parts so it is easy to find, and they're not able to be edited now.


Now you are the one confused. I never said I believe a person can lose their Salvation. I stated there are those here who have said they do believe that.

What !!!? You believe in Perseverance of the Saints!!?


YOU T.U.L.I.P. loving Calvinist you!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah, I meant that but my wording could cause confusion. Semper Fi bro.

Thanks migo...keep swinging my friend

 

[DB7]

We are warned by God not to try and determine who the elect are. When David was king of Israel he got into serious trouble with God for trying to number Israel and as his punishment caused thousands of the people to die. We do have scripture telling us that we shall know them by their fruit and by your admitting your sins is a good sign (fruit) that you are one of the elect. Because you are one of the elect you do not have to worry about the sins you commit keeping you out of heaven because Christ paid for every sin that you will ever commit. We are instructed to repent when we sin but it is not to save us eternally (Christ has already secured that for you). It is to regain our fellowship back with God because God will not fellowship sin. The salvation scriptures will seem to contradict each other if you do not properly divide them. Salvation in Greek means "a deliverance". We are eternally delivered and we are delivered here in time every time we repent and God delivers (saves) us from his non-fellowship.

OK FGC, I think that we went in circles a bit by you saying that 'we'll know them by their fruit'. That's been my point the whole time, you've been saying from the start that one can do anything if they are of the elect, I've been saying their acts will incriminate or justify them, as far as determining their Christian status is concerned. We just did a full circle. Plus, you are convinced that you are of the elect, but you can't seem to determine if I am. I agree, don't judge before the appointed time, but you've already judged yourself.
Either way FGC, thanks for the dialogue, the issue is controversial and I do believe at times, paradoxical, as in my mind, there is quite the mystery in regard to the symbiosis of man's free will and God's sovereignty. ...I am actually leaning towards Molinism. Thanks again!

 

[garee]

yes If It were possible to fall away or else GODs Incorruptible seed would be corruptible,right?

Or this would be talking about the flesh can be corrupted but not the Spirit which was born Again of Incorruptible seed.

Yes, it is in respect to the foundation. Good soil it increases the fruit . Good soil, good seed . Not of us

 

[garee]

You dodge questions so as to divert to that?

I've read you confront another member here. You repeatedly challenged them in a different thread to prove to your satisfaction why they believe they have faith. Why they believe they are in Christ. Over and over, you insist they must do this to satisfy you.
That examples numerous sins of the ego for which you should be repentant, not repetitive in moving on to a different member, me, so as to continue that offense.

That isn't going to happen here. You've answered my questions. And all I have to do to get the other answers as to what parts of TULIP you do ascribe to, which you have defended in numerous threads those particular parts so it is easy to find, and they're not able to be edited now.


Now you are the one confused. I never said I believe a person can lose their Salvation. I stated there are those here who have said they do believe that.

The question is why would they who want to think they could keep something that was not of themselves to begin with?

2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Our fellowship we have is with the good news as a law of faith, not the letter of the law as that which causes a person to fall in unbelief (no faith)

For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philipians 1:6

 

[Whispered]

The question is why would they who want to think they could keep something that was not of themselves to begin with?

2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Our fellowship we have is with the good news as a law of faith, not the letter of the law as that which causes a person to fall in unbelief (no faith)

For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philipians 1:6

The Epistle of 2nd Corinthians chapter 4
The treasure in these earthen vessels is the Holy Spirit of God.
We are to emulate Christ in all things, even when we're beset on all sides by whatever life has to throw at us. We do not need worry if we succeed or fail in keeping our faith, because the faith keeps us.

 

[Whispered]

OK FGC, I think that we went in circles a bit by you saying that 'we'll know them by their fruit'. That's been my point the whole time, you've been saying from the start that one can do anything if they are of the elect, I've been saying their acts will incriminate or justify them, as far as determining their Christian status is concerned. We just did a full circle. Plus, you are convinced that you are of the elect, but you can't seem to determine if I am. I agree, don't judge before the appointed time, but you've already judged yourself.
Either way FGC, thanks for the dialogue, the issue is controversial and I do believe at times, paradoxical, as in my mind, there is quite the mystery in regard to the symbiosis of man's free will and God's sovereignty. ...I am actually leaning towards Molinism. Thanks again!

Why not just stick to the simple truth of "Jesusism" (not a real word)? Jesus teachings only? Why divert to men's mutation of the perfect word and The Word made perfect?

 

[DB7]

Why not just stick to the simple truth of "Jesusism" (not a real word)? Jesus teachings only? Why divert to men's mutation of the perfect word and The Word made perfect?

Yes, you're absolutely right Whispered, ...i did almost cringe as i wrote 'Molinism'. I rarely like to put labels on anything, and am adamantly non-denominational for the same reason. I think in this case, for the sake of brevity, i just wanted to get a complicated point across without much explanation. ...but, the thought of it still makes me cringe.
Agreed, thanks!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

OK FGC, I think that we went in circles a bit by you saying that 'we'll know them by their fruit'. That's been my point the whole time, you've been saying from the start that one can do anything if they are of the elect, I've been saying their acts will incriminate or justify them, as far as determining their Christian status is concerned. We just did a full circle. Plus, you are convinced that you are of the elect, but you can't seem to determine if I am. I agree, don't judge before the appointed time, but you've already judged yourself.
Either way FGC, thanks for the dialogue, the issue is controversial and I do believe at times, paradoxical, as in my mind, there is quite the mystery in regard to the symbiosis of man's free will and God's sovereignty. ...I am actually leaning towards Molinism. Thanks again!

When you know them by their fruit, you have to take into consideration that though we have been born again, we still do carry with us the baggage of our fleshly nature which we oft times slide into when we are tempted by the things of the world.