Psychics, magicians, fortune tellers, astrologers and faith healers

[PennEd]

Nothing to do with it just showing you the fact that what you claim to be evidence, is very weak and for that reason numbers talk for them selves, among people who don't just believe, because they heard someone say "500 people witnessing a risen Christ" that is only 500 out of 108,470,690,000 that ever lived...that is 1 in 216,941,380 I bet this argument wasn't what convinced you to become a christian, reason for that is obvious.

You are basing the validity of a claim on how many people believe it? No offense. But that's a pretty stupid way of analyzing something.

YOU, asked for evidence of miracles. I, showed where in the best record of antiquity over 500 people saw Jesus Christ ALIVE after He was murdered and buried.

It is only your stubborn heart that refuses that irrefutable evidence. You don't WANT to believe. The reason is you know if you believe you have to think about your accountability to Him.

Well guess what? Whether you believe or not isn't going to make one infintesimal speck of difference to the FACT you WILL be held accountable.

So why not confess with your mouth the need of a Savior, admit that Savior is ONLY Jesus Christ, and believe He rose from the grave?
AND LIVE!!!!

 

[WhyNotAsk]

Thanks for that, It's not a matter of that I don't believe Jesus existed, it's just I don't believe he did any of the miracles ascribed to him.
save maybe turning water into wine, good party trick

In the bible there was only one Jesus Christ. ('Jesus the Messiah')
However, Jesus was a common name in some countries.
The Jewish historian Josephus (1st Century AD) mentions 12 other persons, outside of the bible record, also called Jesus.

In the bible, the Greek word for Jesus appears in

1. Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. This is referring to Joshua, the leader of Israel following Moses' death. The names Joshua and Jesus are English translations of a Hebrew name.
2. Luke 3:29 'Jesus' is named as one of the ancestors of Jesus Christ in some bibles.
3. Colossians 4:11 a Christian called Justus was also called Jesus.

Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua or Joshua in English so it was probably a very common name back in the day and there were also many fake messiahs at the time which is why a lot of people were skeptical.

 

[WhyNotAsk]

You are basing the validity of a claim on how many people believe it? No offense. But that's a pretty stupid way of analyzing something.

YOU, asked for evidence of miracles. I, showed where in the best record of antiquity over 500 people saw Jesus Christ ALIVE after He was murdered and buried.

It is only your stubborn heart that refuses that irrefutable evidence. You don't WANT to believe. The reason is you know if you believe you have to think about your accountability to Him.

Well guess what? Whether you believe or not isn't going to make one infintesimal speck of difference to the FACT you WILL be held accountable.

So why not confess with your mouth the need of a Savior, admit that Savior is ONLY Jesus Christ, and believe He rose from the grave?
AND LIVE!!!!

You are basing the validity of a claim on how many people believe it? No offense. But that's a pretty stupid way of analyzing something.

Actually no, I'm just pointing out the weakness of your argument, also the numbers I used where number an estimated number of people that ever lived and not the number of people that believed, If you noticed the number was way higher then our population today (7.7 billion) so, please stop strawmaning my position and next time read carefully.

Again number of supposed people to see Jesus after he rose from the dead 5^2/1^11 which is just hilariously low ratio, if you think this is a strong argument, think again.

 

[PennEd]

Actually no, I'm just pointing out the weakness of your argument, also the numbers I used where number an estimated number of people that ever lived and not the number of people that believed, If you noticed the number was way higher then our population today (7.7 billion) so, please stop strawmaning my position and next time read carefully.

Again number of supposed people to see Jesus after he rose from the dead 5^2/1^11 which is just hilariously low ratio, if you think this is a strong argument, think again.

And again. That number is irrelevant. Who cares that the vast majority of humanity didn't see the physical risen body of Jesus Christ?

In a court of Law if you had 500 witnesses come to the stand and say they all saw the exact same thing, EVERY member of the jury would believe them.

The guy that wrote that over 500 saw them at one time, spent his entire early adult life trying to KILL those that claimed Jesus was the risen Lord.

EVERYWHERE he went AFTER his conversion he was imprisoned and beaten to within an inch of his life. He merely dusted himself off, and went back to preach Christ crucified and risen, sometimes in the same place he had just immensely suffered!

YOU, have the evidence. YOU, willingly choose to reject it? YOU, will be held accountable for your rejection and sin if you do not receive Him. YOU, will not escape that Truth.

 

[WhyNotAsk]

You are basing the validity of a claim on how many people believe it? No offense. But that's a pretty stupid way of analyzing something.

YOU, asked for evidence of miracles. I, showed where in the best record of antiquity over 500 people saw Jesus Christ ALIVE after He was murdered and buried.

It is only your stubborn heart that refuses that irrefutable evidence. You don't WANT to believe. The reason is you know if you believe you have to think about your accountability to Him.

Well guess what? Whether you believe or not isn't going to make one infintesimal speck of difference to the FACT you WILL be held accountable.

So why not confess with your mouth the need of a Savior, admit that Savior is ONLY Jesus Christ, and believe He rose from the grave?
AND LIVE!!!!

You are basing the validity of a claim on how many people believe it? No offence. But that's a pretty stupid way of analyzing something.

That's neat, what does that show to you ?
How true the contents of the new testament are or how wide spread it became ?
Just because something is Authentic and say does't even have a single transcriptional error (which there is evidence for), It can still be just a story with some truth in it.

Point is people don't generally rise from the dead (if they are actually dead) and a very popular old story that tells us a guy did doesn't make the assertion true, just a claim that still needs evidence.

 

[WhyNotAsk]

And again. That number is irrelevant. Who cares that the vast majority of humanity didn't see the physical risen body of Jesus Christ?

In a court of Law if you had 500 witnesses come to the stand and say they all saw the exact same thing, EVERY member of the jury would believe them.

The guy that wrote that over 500 saw them at one time, spent his entire early adult life trying to KILL those that claimed Jesus was the risen Lord.

EVERYWHERE he went AFTER his conversion he was imprisoned and beaten to within an inch of his life. He merely dusted himself off, and went back to preach Christ crucified and risen, sometimes in the same place he had just immensely suffered!

YOU, have the evidence. YOU, willingly choose to reject it? YOU, will be held accountable for your rejection and sin if you do not receive Him. YOU, will not escape that Truth.

Understand this, Claim that there was 500 people that saw Jesus, doesn't negate the fact that trillions of people did not, also the ongoing observation of people staying dead, So your Jury in reality would rule, that the plaintiff's are either deluded or have no evidence to back up their claims since it runs in contrary to what we know...Just like there have been thousands ghost signings, alien abductions, demonic possessions and yet non of them have been confirmed to have actually taken place, you also have to realise eye witness accounts are not the strongest evidence one can bring when it comes to the unproven claims. If it was you among everybody else would believe there are aliens,ghost, vampires and so on...

We don't believe because we have no evidence to prove it, only claims of people seeing things and experiencing strange things. So 500 people means nothing especially if you want to set up that court scenario.

 

[PennEd]

Understand this, Claim that there was 500 people that saw Jesus, doesn't negate the fact that trillions of people did not, also the ongoing observation of people staying dead, So your Jury in reality would rule, that the plaintiff's are either deluded or have no evidence to back up their claims since it runs in contrary to what we know...Just like there have been thousands ghost signings, alien abductions, demonic possessions and yet non of them have been confirmed to have actually taken place, you also have to realise eye witness accounts are not the strongest evidence one can bring when it comes to the unproven claims. If it was you among everybody else would believe there are aliens,ghost, vampires and so on...

We don't believe because we have no evidence to prove it, only claims of people seeing things and experiencing strange things. So 500 people means nothing especially if you want to set up that court scenario.

First off, I don't know why you keep inflating how many humans have lived. It's ludicrous. Just an aside though. It doesn't have a bearing on the discussion, but it illustrates a level of ignorance.

I got news for ya. Witness accounts ARE evidence. VAST numbers of convictions, especially before the age of CSI-Miami/L.A./ Topeka Kansas, or wherever, have occurred throughout history. Some, with as few as ONE witness.

On top of that, a WHOLE TROUPE of healed and witnesses to miraculous healings could take the stand from this most well documented written manuscript.

So after 6-12 months of testimony from 500 individual witnesses to Christ's risen body, and thousands of others testifying on a battery of miracles, you would have to be INSANE to not believe.

And of course those that don't believe ARE insane. By their own choosing because they have suppressed the Truth, that they really know to be True.

 

[Susanna]

What’s there to prove?

Christ is Risen.

 

[Magenta]

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion, if you just make more assertions and claim they are supposed to be evidence for your initial claim, that is what most people call digging a deeper hole. Because the more assertions one makes the more evidence they will need to prove their point to be true.

Rejecting assertions as evidence is a very valid thing to do, a claim made with out evidence can be dismissed with out evidence. We don't believe things we have heard, but because of the reasons those things appear to be true.

Rejecting corroborated eye witness testimony is not a valid thing to do. The problem many have is claiming it is not evidence/there is no evidence. But, I understand why you do this, and know that nothing short of a Spiritual transformation via the Holy Spirit of God will suffice for 'no one can say, "Jesus is LORD," except by the Holy Spirit.'

 

[oldethennew]

most so called 'religions' are very poor representatives of Yeshua and His Holy-Ways -

just read this morning that many of the priests' would not be 'held accountable',
once again because of 'the statute of limitations' -
this kind of crime and punishment is something very 'real', and can only be attributed
to the demonic influences/dark powers in this world - this is OUT of the realm of SCIENCE,
it is very REAL = there is a 'counter balance' to the ultimate evil, which is, The Ultimate Good,
without this, there would be 'total chaos without any hope or future or safety or joy in one's lifetime...

ISA. 53:1.
And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2.
For He shall grow up before Him as A Tender Plant, and as A Root out of a dry ground:
He has no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3.
He is despised and rejected of men; A Man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
4.
Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5.
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
6.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
(and The LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.)
7.
He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth:
He is brought as a Lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, (so He openeth not His mouth.)
8.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare His generation?
(for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of My people was He stricken.)
9.
(And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death;
because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.)
10.
Yet it pleased The LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief: when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin,
(He shall see His seed, he shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of The LORD shall prosper in His hand.)
11.
He shall see of the travail of His Soul, and shall be satisfied: (by His knowledge shall My Righteous Servant justify many
(((for He shall bear their iniquities.)))
12.
Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong;
(((because He has poured out His Soul unto death))):
and He was numbered with the transgressors; (((and He bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.)))

this is Spiritual Food and Assurance to whom all those that our Holy Saviour awakens...

 

[WhyNotAsk]

What’s there to prove?

Christ is Risen.

The fact that he rose and not just rotted in the ground like everybody else.
Prove that people can actually rise, and Gods actually exist.

 

[WhyNotAsk]

Witness accounts ARE evidence

That's why I mentioned People seeing aliens, ghost and other things and its a far bigger number then 500 yet non of us are convinced that such things exist.

 

[Dino246]

Round like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
This discussion will continue
Truth will meet another spiel

 

[PennEd]

That's why I mentioned People seeing aliens, ghost and other things and its a far bigger number then 500 yet non of us are convinced that such things exist.

Who says NONE of us are convinced of such things?

 

[JamOn]

It's a question, not a claim, I have been speaking to a lot of charlatans who claim to know more then they do and they very often avoid answering you directly. Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments/ non related claims in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. Basically what you are doing. You ask so many questions, some of them not even related and avoid responding to those answers... This Is why I said "what is your point ? "

Please don't send link to random articles that have nothing to do with the topic we where talking about, It's quite frustrating and it wastes my time, I hope its not your intention.

You want me to maybe t least consider there is No creator I’m not buying that idea sorry bud.

i ask if you would like to continue knowing others after this life not a bunch of questions and you replied with that, you have no doubt heard of such things I’m not buying your dogmatic diversion

And by the way you as well posted links to random garbono right back at you pal

 

[WhyNotAsk]

Who says NONE of us are convinced of such things?

I guess some people are more gullible then others.

 

[WhyNotAsk]

You want me to maybe t least consider there is No creator I’m not buying that idea sorry bud.

i ask if you would like to continue knowing others after this life not a bunch of questions and you replied with that, you have no doubt heard of such things I’m not buying your dogmatic diversion

And by the way you as well posted links to random garbono right back at you pal

It's not a matter of what I'd like, but if it is true and a matter of how we know. Everything I posted was in response to your questions, many of which where nonsensical. I don't want you to consider there is no creator, but look at the world with a hint of scientific information, assume the earth is 4.54 billion years old, in a system with a common G2V star, where looking out to the cosmos only 4% is something made of matter and everything else is a deep void, If you consider the hundreds of billions of star in our galaxy, even if only 1% have planets and even if only 1 % of those planets has the right temperature range and 1% of those had atmosphere and 1% of those had water and 1% of those had a magnetosphere, we would still be looking at 1000-4000 planets in our galaxy that had life. Now there are billions of galaxies in the universe. So even though the number of planets that can support life that we know of is one, it is very likely that there are billions of planets in the universe that can support life- Yet here you are claiming this planet is somehow special and it even has a creator that specially looks after it and the people up on it. If there was a creator I'm sure he would have better things to do then worry who you sleep with and share your bed with.

Basically, if you look through a scientific lens there is no reason for god to exist, if everything we see makes sense without God adding God into the picture just makes no sense.

This is not my position It's a mere observation from scientist I have spoke with and heard.

 

[breno785au]

It's not a matter of what I'd like, but if it is true and a matter of how we know. Everything I posted was in response to your questions, many of which where nonsensical. I don't want you to consider there is no creator, but look at the world with a hint of scientific information, assume the earth is 4.54 billion years old, in a system with a common G2V star, where looking out to the cosmos only 4% is something made of matter and everything else is a deep void, If you consider the hundreds of billions of star in our galaxy, even if only 1% have planets and even if only 1 % of those planets has the right temperature range and 1% of those had atmosphere and 1% of those had water and 1% of those had a magnetosphere, we would still be looking at 1000-4000 planets in our galaxy that had life. Now there are billions of galaxies in the universe. So even though the number of planets that can support life that we know of is one, it is very likely that there are billions of planets in the universe that can support life- Yet here you are claiming this planet is somehow special and it even has a creator that specially looks after it and the people up on it. If there was a creator I'm sure he would have better things to do then worry who you sleep with and share your bed with.

Basically, if you look through a scientific lens there is no reason for god to exist, if everything we see makes sense without God adding God into the picture just makes no sense.

This is not my position It's a mere observation from scientist I have spoke with and heard.

Going by that logic, I look at a video game and I think, wow, look at those graphics, look at all those lines of code that went into programming the lighting, shadows, ambient occlusion, ai, everything, there's no reason to add that someone programmed and designed the world space because it just exists.

We have a lot of knowledge but we know virtually nothing in the bigger picture. You make claims about God, yet you don't know God. It's like someone making claims about you which were completely untrue, acting as if I knew you, what your concerns were, what you pleased and did pleased you, you would call that person a fool.
Difference between you and I and many others here, I've been the one looking on the outside in, making all sorts of excuses and reasons but I've crossed over to the other side, I actually know what I'm talking about when I speak when it comes to things pertaining to God because of experience. I completely understand your position, but you could never understand mine because you haven't experienced it and for that reason I have compassion.

It's good that you are here discussing 👍

 

[WhyNotAsk]

Going by that logic, I look at a video game and I think, wow, look at those graphics, look at all those lines of code that went into programming the lighting, shadows, ambient occlusion, ai, everything, there's no reason to add that someone programmed and designed the world space because it just exists.

We have a lot of knowledge but we know virtually nothing in the bigger picture. You make claims about God, yet you don't know God. It's like someone making claims about you which were completely untrue, acting as if I knew you, what your concerns were, what you pleased and did pleased you, you would call that person a fool.
Difference between you and I and many others here, I've been the one looking on the outside in, making all sorts of excuses and reasons but I've crossed over to the other side, I actually know what I'm talking about when I speak when it comes to things pertaining to God because of experience. I completely understand your position, but you could never understand mine because you haven't experienced it and for that reason I have compassion.

It's good that you are here discussing 👍

Thanks for that, I appreciate another person joining the discussion
I heard many people say if you never experienced God you will not know what you are talking about.
I agree to a certain extent, but many Christians if not all, believe you get to know about God through the Bible and again I agree to a certain extent. For me the kicker is where people claim they communicate with God, I know many people who claim to communicate with many different things and its as real as something can get to them, yet they can not demonstrate that they are indeed receiving any information that they don't already have in their brain.

You mentioned video games and you seem to equate it to the universe, basically saying if one is programmed and thoroughly created the other must be too, however this is a Non sequitur and assumes the conclusion:
We know video games are created and created things need a creator therefore the universe is created and has a creator.
This conclusion is based on flawed reasoning, you conclude the universe was created with out proving that it indeed is a creation or that indeed it has a creator, never mind proving who that creator is

This reminds me of the classical watchmaker argument I used to use when street preaching, we all know when we see a watch it had a watchmaker, when we see a building there was a builder, and when we see creation (the world) there had to have been a creator.
seems good, until you are asked how did you determine that what you see before you is a creation or something that required intelligence to create, are there other explanations that make more sense and is this something that indeed can be known as well as we know that watchmakers, builders, and programmers exist to create their respective products.

Do you have evidence to prove that there are universe creators or is this bit that is assumed ?

 

[JamOn]

It's not a matter of what I'd like, but if it is true and a matter of how we know. Everything I posted was in response to your questions, many of which where nonsensical. I don't want you to consider there is no creator, but look at the world with a hint of scientific information, assume the earth is 4.54 billion years old, in a system with a common G2V star, where looking out to the cosmos only 4% is something made of matter and everything else is a deep void, If you consider the hundreds of billions of star in our galaxy, even if only 1% have planets and even if only 1 % of those planets has the right temperature range and 1% of those had atmosphere and 1% of those had water and 1% of those had a magnetosphere, we would still be looking at 1000-4000 planets in our galaxy that had life. Now there are billions of galaxies in the universe. So even though the number of planets that can support life that we know of is one, it is very likely that there are billions of planets in the universe that can support life- Yet here you are claiming this planet is somehow special and it even has a creator that specially looks after it and the people up on it. If there was a creator I'm sure he would have better things to do then worry who you sleep with and share your bed with.

Basically, if you look through a scientific lens there is no reason for god to exist, if everything we see makes sense without God adding God into the picture just makes no sense.

This is not my position It's a mere observation from scientist I have spoke with and heard.

Huh I said this planet is special I don’t think I said that, God has a name for every star created from its own seed like a plant and it’s seed, yes the earth is 4.5 mil old, the universe 14.4 billion. and he stretched out the stars like a canopy for the grass hoppers to live in. one of the oldest stars in the universe from the beginning is right here in the Milky Way go figure 99% of matter in our solar system is in the sun, God creates beyond what science knows, yet science is learning about His creation one small seed at a time. what you wrote above is a little bazaar for I have no problem with that.