Was Adam Made Holy

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Adam was with her in the garden, but not standing right next to her.
I just meant, her name was changed, as Saul became Paul. The fact this is recorded here makes me think I should be careful to use the right name for the right time period, which is why I would say, Adam wasn't with Eve in the garden but lived there with Woman, technically, since she didn't become Eve until they were judged and being cast out. ;)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The fact he wasn't deceived, that he listened to her, not to the Serpent, that he says she gave it to him, not the Serpent, the fact that the indications of the text about his character don't support the implications that narrative would make, the fact that he is not mentioned in the conversation, the fact that Satan speaks directly to her and not to him, tho God speaks directly to him even when they are together, and the record in scripture overwhelmingly shows that when a man and a woman are together the man is the one addressed, etc etc etc

And what supports the narrative that he's sitting there in the background stupidly in complicit, thoughtless silence the whole time?
One ambiguous word that many modern translations introduce interpretive additions around?
I think I have a much stronger case than you, bro
I haven't suggested anything about stupidity, complicity, or thoughtless silence. Scripture attributes guilt to the man, and deception to the woman. It says nothing beyond "who was with her" (or, as you prefer, "with her") so any assertion about his presence during the rest of the conversation is speculative.

I think when we read Scripture (or any other narrative), it's common for us (myself included) to include details that aren't actually provided, so that the stories make sense to us. Unfortunately, it seems that we inadvertently treat our mental images of the story as the story itself. It's better to go back to Scripture and hold tightly to what it actually says, while holding other ideas very loosely.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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This line of thinking undermines the credibility of the entire Bible, and of the Christian faith. Jesus spoke of Adam and Eve in Matthew 19:4-6 "“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” In your view, Jesus must have been deluded, and if He was deluded in this matter, He was likely deluded in other matters as well.

I am glad you said that, I have seen you make this error before.

In the first chapter of Genesis we read in verse 21 that God created Male and Female.

Gen 1:27 KJV So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now we come to chapter 2 and beginning at verse 20 we read:

For Adam there was not found an help meet (partner) for him. (21) And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; (22) And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They got married.

Adam is representative of humankind, and Jesus is the second Adam. Eve, the Bride of Christ is you and me, who are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ that came from the wound made in His side. He is the second Adam.

We have the Gospel right at the beginning of the Bible and hopefully, one day, you and I will be at the wedding feast.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
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In the first chapter of Genesis we read in verse 21 that God created Male and Female.

Gen 1:27 KJV So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now we come to chapter 2 and beginning at verse 20 we read:

For Adam there was not found an help meet (partner) for him. (21) And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; (22) And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They got married.

Adam is representative of humankind, and Jesus is the second Adam. Eve, the Bride of Christ is you and me, who are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ that came from the wound made in His side. He is the second Adam.

We have the Gospel right at the beginning of the Bible and hopefully, one day, you and I will be at the wedding feast.
That's just wacky. If Adam represents humanity, and Eve represents the Bride of Christ, they don't get married!

Jesus is that "second Adam" but not the first. Genesis talks about the first Adam, not the second. Your view is untenable.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Can I disagree with your opinion? Then we can disagree with Paul's.
Read the full verses prior to that one in 14.
Instructions on Worship
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.


11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


Deceived (at the scripture link above)
ἀπατάω (apataō)
Strong: G538

GK: G572

to deceive, seduce into error, Eph. 5:6; 1 Tim. 2:14; Jas. 1:26 )

Where in Genesis chapter 3 are we told women shall be saved through childbearing?

The Timothy texts, 1st and 2nd, are thought to be written by Paul, but some scholars believe also it may have been authored by an anonymous Christian. Whatever the case , 1st Timothy is Paul's letter to the church. His opinions and instructions throughout.
Paul's observation concerning Eve alone puts Eve responsible for being deceived by the serpent that both Adam and Eve encountered together. Because as we read Paul's opinion of women's place in the church, the man was to be the head of the woman, yet he blamed the woman for being deceived when she was right there with Adam, who Paul believed should have been her head even then.
Adam heard the command of God not to eat of the forbidden fruit first. He was created before Eve.
Adam knew he was wrong to eat of the fruit, but did anyway. Not because Eve deceived him when Adam was there hearing the serpent persuade Eve to eat , and Adam ate anyway. Being first to hear God's command not to.

Paul does not permit a woman to teach. Yet there were women Apostles, that Paul recognized and even praised.
I think this may be one of the causes behind some scholars thinking an anonymous Christian wrote 1st Timothy , perhaps even 2nd.

Paul doesn't permit women to teach or assume authority over a man, but he praises them for being Apostles? Which is a teacher of the word.
And the authority part can be why he accuses Eve of deception of the man, Adam. Because Paul does not respect a woman can have authority over a man. But deception is something else. That's not authority, that's beguilement.
1 Timothy
Theme
Paul writes to instruct Timothy concerning the care of the church at Ephesus.
Overview
This is the first of Paul’s epistles to the young pastor Timothy. In it, according to the King James Study Bible, he exhorts Timothy to guard against false doctrine, protect public worship, and develop mature leadership. Much of the epistle deals with the nature of pastoral conduct, including the qualifications of a bishop (pastor) as a true teacher of God’s Word. Practical directions for elders and for widows are also given in detail.
Grouping
Epistles
Author
The apostle Paul.
Timeline
About AD 64.
Genre
Didactic
Original Language
Greek


The Book of Genesis chapter 3:
16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

nope

the Bible is clear

not going to discuss until the cows come home :giggle:

it isn't a salvic issue and I have no need to waste my time going back and forth...no offense

who did Adam listen to? his wife

the serpent did not even speak to him

it seems to me you have an opinion and are putting your evidence together to support it

I don't think you are right

let's just part company on this one, I like you just as much, but let's move on
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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That's speculation, not Scripture.
Were all the animals standing right beside Noah in the ark, or simply in the ark with Noah?

Genesis 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
That's just wacky. If Adam represents humanity, and Eve represents the Bride of Christ, they don't get married!

Jesus is that "second Adam" but not the first. Genesis talks about the first Adam, not the second. Your view is untenable.
We are the first Adam, and one day we shall be at the wedding feast of the 'wounded one' as His bride.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
nope

the Bible is clear

not going to discuss until the cows come home :giggle:

it isn't a salvic issue and I have no need to waste my time going back and forth...no offense

who did Adam listen to? his wife

the serpent did not even speak to him

it seems to me you have an opinion and are putting your evidence together to support it

I don't think you are right

let's just part company on this one, I like you just as much, but let's move on
I will be doing the same as you shortly. :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
13,785
113
Were all the animals standing right beside Noah in the ark, or simply in the ark with Noah?

Genesis 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
Context. There is no reason to think that there is any relevance to the precise proximity of the animals to Noah. There is reason to consider the proximity of Adam to Eve.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
13,785
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We are the first Adam, and one day we shall be at the wedding feast of the 'wounded one' as His bride.
Irrelevant. Your position is one grand anachronism.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
Context. There is no reason to think that there is any relevance to the precise proximity of the animals to Noah. There is reason to consider the proximity of Adam to Eve.
What’s your thoughts? Do you believe Adam was standing next to Eve allowing her to be deceived while he listened on and was not deceived?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I am glad you said that, I have seen you make this error before.

In the first chapter of Genesis we read in verse 21 that God created Male and Female.

Gen 1:27 KJV So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now we come to chapter 2 and beginning at verse 20 we read:

For Adam there was not found an help meet (partner) for him. (21) And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; (22) And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They got married.

Adam is representative of humankind, and Jesus is the second Adam. Eve, the Bride of Christ is you and me, who are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ that came from the wound made in His side. He is the second Adam.

We have the Gospel right at the beginning of the Bible and hopefully, one day, you and I will be at the wedding feast.
We should be careful on how we hear.

In the image of one God created he him; (Mankind) subject to salvation.

Male and female created he them.. . .the other kind of beast of the field of clay. . not subject to salvation.

He made mankind (woman and man) out of one hunk of clay. Not one was formed before and from the other. It is bone of bone (same bone) and flesh of flesh(same flesh as one lump of clay) . He did not take a piece of bone scrape off a little DNA and create the other half of the one. The two will become one bride in the end. . Same kind of idea as father and son . One is is in a greater position .But two are needed to form a govement. Loving authority plus willing submisivenes brings the peace of God that surpasses our understaning.

Twelve hours of day(light) and twelve hours of night (darkness) equal a 24 hour day .

This is the day the Lord had made rejoice and be glad in it. Why put ones faith in a electronic dating device?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
13,785
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What’s your thoughts? Do you believe Adam was standing next to Eve allowing her to be deceived while he listened on and was not deceived?
That's a classic example of a leading question, so I'm refrain from answering it. Stick to what Scripture actually says.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
13,785
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He made mankind (woman and man) out of one hunk of clay. Not one was formed before and from the other.

Your statement directly contradicts clear and plain Scripture, which tells us that God created the man from dust (clay) before He made the woman from Adam's side.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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695
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Irrelevant. Your position is one grand anachronism.
It is what the New Testament writers teach. I am going to have to put you on ignore.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Where in Genesis chapter 3 are we told women shall be saved through childbearing?
right

I have heard some interesting comments on that one, but I agree no connection with Genesis
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
13,785
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It is what the New Testament writers teach. I am going to have to put you on ignore.
Go ahead; stick your fingers in your ears and shout, "I can't hear you!"
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Your statement directly contradicts clear and plain Scripture, which tells us that God created the man from dust (clay) before He made the woman from Adam's side.

makes yah wanna bang yer head onna wall he does....


Head banging is when your child bangs his head against a solid object such as a wall or the side of a crib. It is most common at naptime, bedtime, or when your child wakes up at night. Head banging usually lasts 15 minutes or less, but may go on for over an hour.

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,187
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We know they didn't after they had sin, but we don't know they didn't before they had sin.
We don't know how long they lived before their fall; we don't even know if the passage of time was the same before sin entered the world and the ground was cursed. But we know they were never commanded not to eat of the tree of life, only 'prevented' when they were cast out of the garden.
Adam and Eve were prevented from eating of the Tree of Life specifically because to do so would have granted them eternal life, which they did not have yet, nor did God want them living eternally in their sinful state.