Gifts of God: should we pray for it? does the prayer change the will of God?

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User46952

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#1
Mar 12, 2019
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#1
1 Corinthians 12:11: But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

God distributes the gifts as per His own will.
1. if God has the will, the person can get the gift even though he/she does not ask for it.
2. if God does not have the will, the person cannot get it even though he/she ask for it.
if the above two points are true, praying to God for a gift has no effect. (assuming that prayer cannot change His will)

please reply if you have any other thoughts. Should/Can anyone pray for a gift of God?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#2
Jul 2, 2011
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A brother in Yeshua never asked for gifts, yet the Father did work several miracles through him because he availed himself to God…….…….I do not believe asking for gifts is quite wise, but I could be completely off. Our Father knows which works He will assign to each so all we can do is wait on the Lord, and be willing in Christ, Yeshua.
 
A

Adstar

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User46952 said:
1 Corinthians 12:11: But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

God distributes the gifts as per His own will.
1. if God has the will, the person can get the gift even though he/she does not ask for it.
2. if God does not have the will, the person cannot get it even though he/she ask for it.
if the above two points are true, praying to God for a gift has no effect. (assuming that prayer cannot change His will)

please reply if you have any other thoughts. Should/Can anyone pray for a gift of God?
Click to expand...
The scriptures say we should earnestly the best gifts.. So if it is telling us to desire to recieve the best gifts then logicaly from that we should be able to make a request to God for those gifts.. Of course it does not mean we shall recieve the gift we want.. It is all up to Gods will on the matter.. But we can still make a request..

1 Corinthians 12: KJV
27 "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. {28} And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. {29} Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? {30} Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? {31} But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

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But is not the best GIFT the ability to love without regard!

Paul himself said if I have ALL these gifts and have no love or charity,"I am nothing"!
 
D

DB7

Junior Member
#5
Dec 29, 2014
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The following verse seems to imply that there is an element of human cooperation that effectuates these gifts, whether one initiates or activates it. Either way, I personally feel that praying for it, for the right reason and with faith, will both allow and please God to distribute it accordingly.

Romans 12:3-6
12:3. For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4. Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5. so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
 
J

Judges1318

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User46952 said:
Should/Can anyone pray for a gift of God?
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In scripture the gifts are received through the laying on of hands.

1 Timothy 4:14 NIV
"Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you."

2 Timothy 1:6 NIV
"I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands."

Acts 19:6 NIV
"When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues, and prophesied."

But we also see God bestowing the gifts in a completely sovereign act apart from prayer and the laying on of hands.

Acts 10:44-46 NIV
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God."

My opinion about gifts, based on the scriptures and personal experience is anyone desiring to possess and operate in their particular spiritual gift(s) is to have other believers who believe in the gifts pray for you in the laying on of hands. And don't be disappointed if it seems nothing happened. In time, your gift will become evident as the opportunity to use them arises.
 
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Judges1318

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IFOLLOWHIM said:
But is not the best GIFT the ability to love without regard!

Paul himself said if I have ALL these gifts and have no love or charity,"I am nothing"!
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I learned that the gifts work in power when we love others. It's out of a sincere, heartfelt compassion for others that the power of a spiritual gift to heal them, teach them, comfort them, encourage them, etc. springs forth.

John 15:4,10,7,12
"Remain in me, and I will remain in you."
"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love"
"If you remain in me and my words remain in you (that is, you obey his commands), ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you."
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."

Care about people in obedience to Jesus and your spiritual gift will burn in you to reach out to another person as the opportunities arise.
 
P

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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Paul said to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. In I Corinthians 14:13, he says for the one who speaks in a tongue to pray that he may interpret. Interpretation is a gift of the Spirit, and so clearly we are allowed to pray for this gift. It is reasonable to conclude that we may pray for other gifts as well.

We should be careful not to interpret the 'will of God' through the heavily deterministic lens that some hyper-calvinists might use. John Calvin had not been born when Paul wrote that about gifts given as the Spirit wills. Is it the Spirit's will to be generous with us? is it God's will to answer prayers from the saints, motivated by the desire to minister to others?

Consider this:
Luke 12:32
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

There are some people who think that everything that happens is the will of God. But I Thessalonians 4 tells us that it is the will of God that ye should abstain from fornication. If some disobedient recipient of this letter went out and fornicated, would he have any right to claim that since it happened, it must be God's will? The Bible says it was not God's will.

Philosophical ideas about the will of God should not keep us from understanding and following the teachings of Jesus on praying in faith. One could theorize that it does no good to pray if everything is already predetermined, but that is not in lined with the type of thinking presented in the Bible.
 
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Judges1318

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presidente said:
One could theorize that it does no good to pray if everything is already predetermined, but that is not in lined with the type of thinking presented in the Bible.
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And I think James makes that very clear:

James 4:2
"You do not have because you do not ask."
 
H

Hungry

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Nov 26, 2012
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I think one should be careful what they ask for. To whom much is given, much is expected. The metaphor that we are the Body of Christ answers many questions. The body is made up of many members to function synergistically. We are all different and increase the functionality of the body. Now sometimes a body is missing a limb, or is injured. At that time adjustments must be made. It is when we see the deficit that it is the proper time to pray for new gifts. It may be even the urging of the Spirit that makes you notice this need (a calling).

Those who are where they are suited may feel challenged at times like they aren’t strong enough to do what they are called. This is much like at the gym. We force our muscles past their comfort zone. Pain brings change! It is then the endocrine system kicks in and releases testosterone and growth hormone giving the muscle needed development. Because the body is an efficient machine not wasting resources for mere esthetics, the need precedes the change. The Body of Christ is no different. At its roots the Church was in need of super preachers. They were inspired and motivated unto death to reach the masses. They were endowed with necessary gifts. Today most are lazy. They prefer to have the muscle before they lift the weight. They despise pain and discomfort. Again, no pain, no change. That is why the message is not going forward in power. It is because the Body is weak and lazy...complacent. Eventually when we are beaten hard enough we will wake up and call to God, “Send me!”
 
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7seasrekeyed

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#11
yes. you can most definitely pray for gifts as the Bible even instructs to do so

Earnestly pursue love, and earnestly desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you might prophesy. I Corinthians 14:1

(this does not mean convert to OT prophetic garb...study NT prophecy and understand the differences)

as you state in your op, yes, God does give spiritual gifts through His Spirit so keep that in mind. too many are jealous of the gifts another may have, and some fake it...but I digress

In scripture the gifts are received through the laying on of hands.
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I disagree with this statement. it may be the case, but by no means do you need hands laid on or you do not receive



 
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7seasrekeyed

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#12
Judges1318 said:
And I think James makes that very clear:

James 4:2
"You do not have because you do not ask."
Click to expand...

well, let's complete the thought

4 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. James 4

it isn't just because we do not ask. there are conditions
 
J

Judges1318

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Judges1318 said:
In scripture the gifts are received through the laying on of hands.
Click to expand...
7seasrekeyed said:
...by no means do you need hands laid on or you do not receive
Click to expand...
That's right. I said this in that very same post...
Judges1318 said:
But we also see God bestowing the gifts in a completely sovereign act apart from prayer and the laying on of hands.
Click to expand...
As I pointed out, the very first gentile believers show us that you do not have to have hands laid on you as a hard and fast rule to receive your spiritual gift(s). But if you haven't received it, have the church lay hands on you. The problem is, most churches do not believe in the supernatural gifts, and so they do not ask for them.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone to pray over you in faith for you to receive your spiritual gift(s). That is why the church for the most part is powerless and not spiritual. They have not because they ask not. They ask not because they do not believe in the supernatural gifts. So many denominations teach that they have passed away and were for the first disciples only.
 
J

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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7seasrekeyed said:
well, let's complete the thought

4 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. James 4

it isn't just because we do not ask. there are conditions
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Surely that is also a reason why a person may not receive the manifestation of their spiritual gift. But I'm of the opinion that believers not asking for the manifestation of their particular gift(s) is by far the main reason the church in general does not walk in supernatural gifts. Most Christian denominations do not believe they exist today for them to even ask for them.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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7seasrekeyed said:
Earnestly pursue love, and earnestly desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you might prophesy. I Corinthians 14:1

(this does not mean convert to OT prophetic garb...study NT prophecy and understand the differences)
Click to expand...
What does this mean? What are the differences? garb?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

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#16
Judges1318 said:
That's right. I said this in that very same post...

As I pointed out, the very first gentile believers show us that you do not have to have hands laid on you as a hard and fast rule to receive your spiritual gift(s). But if you haven't received it, have the church lay hands on you. The problem is, most churches do not believe in the supernatural gifts, and so they do not ask for them.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone to pray over you in faith for you to receive your spiritual gift(s). That is why the church for the most part is powerless and not spiritual. They have not because they ask not. They ask not because they do not believe in the supernatural gifts. So many denominations teach that they have passed away and were for the first disciples only.
Click to expand...

there are few and far between people I would let lay hands on me...I did not used to be that way...but time and experience teach caution

frankly I do not attend nor would I attend a church that does not believe in the Holy Spirit as anything other than something who is not a Someone

I have spiritual gifts...again received as I did salvation and speaking in tongues..the all by myself method ;)

Surely that is also a reason why a person may not receive the manifestation of their spiritual gift. But I'm of the opinion that believers not asking for the manifestation of their particular gift(s) is by far the main reason the church in general does not walk in supernatural gifts. Most Christian denominations do not believe they exist today for them to even ask for them.
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mheh

and in some churches, they have no discernment and do not walk in truth and believe anything that goes on is the Holy Spirit so all kinds of weirdness happens and no one gets uncomfortable. I would get uncomfortable

I think we are basically on the same page though
 
J

Judges1318

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7seasrekeyed said:
there are few and far between people I would let lay hands on me...I did not used to be that way...but time and experience teach caution

frankly I do not attend nor would I attend a church that does not believe in the Holy Spirit as anything other than something who is not a Someone

I have spiritual gifts...again received as I did salvation and speaking in tongues..the all by myself method ;)



mheh

and in some churches, they have no discernment and do not walk in truth and believe anything that goes on is the Holy Spirit so all kinds of weirdness happens and no one gets uncomfortable. I would get uncomfortable

I think we are basically on the same page though
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Lol, I was prepared to go in my next posts to the fact that so many 'spiritual' churches are just plain wacko. :giggle:

It's very, very hard to find a genuinely spiritual group of people who know and appreciate the powers of the Holy Spirit and who haven't turned the gospel into a dog and pony show and a means to get rich and avoid suffering.
 
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7seasrekeyed

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#18
TooFastTurtle said:
What does this mean? What are the differences? garb?
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LOL!...garb means clothing...so I was being haha funny with the OT garb...like animal skins

the difference:

OT prophets were basically concerned with warnings to Israel because of their apostasy and also future events

having studied NT prophecy, I believe it indicates far more forth telling of the word...expounding on the Bible...than foretelling

John had visions of the future and we do know the Bible indicates people will have visions and dreams...I've had a few myself...but these do not supersede the word

we also have the word of knowledge and it seems people get that confused with prophecy...I have operated in the word of knowledge but by no means would I call myself prophet and I think most who call themselves such today, simply are not

any time...ANY TIME...people think they can operate without knowledge of scripture and discernment, in prophetic gifts, we are going to run into big trouble and most often those types will not take instruction from anyone

and spirits of the prophets are to be subject to each other...yet you may have noticed all the lone ranger prophets...this is not God. they do not follow what the word states concerning how they are to submit...so, in no way

you can find the above in scripture regarding old and new testament prophecy

and yes the new does call some people prophets but not in the sense of OT prophets who basically tried to woo the Israelites back to God..also, and maybe this is just my opinion, but a prophet has to operate in love for the body of Christ...non condemnatory as in 'you're all going to hell unless your repent'...I've actually heard similar....or the other kind that promises wine and roses..

there is really alot to all of it...this post is more than long enough but really is just surface stuff

over n out
 
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