WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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But the ones who have died are in heaven and wont be returning until the Lords Day. That is why this fig tree generation is a chosen generation. The first shall be last....

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And does He lose even one? No, they are the Christians of today. The Church.

WHO DO YOU THINK MAKES UP THE CHURCH OF TODAY? You want the sheep scattered around the world to be "the nation of Israel" To be the "land" or to be the Jews of the land of Israel, or to be who??
Fig tree represents the nation of Israel.

Lost sheep of the house of Israel = hello...Israel.

The Church today is made up of all believers in the body of Christ. Christ being the head. Is Christ going through the tribulation?


Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. They had no king. If they received Jesus as Messiah, then Israel would have been the light to the Gentiles.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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- https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6524.htm

So I was looking around the web for some examples of "verbal adjectives" (perhaps some "grammar scholars" can help out), here's one I found FOR EXAMPLE:

"participle - verbal form used only as an adjective. Actually, present and perfect participles can also form multipart verbs, together with auxiliary verbs (e.g. I am waiting), but outside this role, they only function as adjectives (e.g. closed store, running water)."


"the souls like birds" or "the souls flourishing" (where the verb-word in question ['fly'/'like birds'/'flourishing'] is DESCRIBING "the souls/persons" [who are being led astray by those falsely prophesying] NOT what [/the CONTENT of what] those falsely prophesying were TELLING those ppl! See the difference??)
Yes and NO. Souls are being led away from God by false doctrine. That false doctrine has them flying away. So take it one way or take it the other. and this is the rap - to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Do you know how the souls are slain? Some byy starvation when they think they are being fed a healthy fulfilling meal that will get them to the goal line, yet it turns out to have no nutrition to sustain them at all and they die on the way there.

And those "not REALLY ever saved, just were taught they were, thought they were, and turns out they were deceived into believing they were covered in every thing but that is just not true "
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Yes and NO. Souls are being led away from God by false doctrine. That false doctrine has them flying away.
No, that's not what the text is conveying (that's what the Internet has it to be saying [by abundant ppl repeating such notions], but not what the actual text is conveying, here).
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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Fig tree represents the nation of Israel.

Lost sheep of the house of Israel = hello...Israel.

The Church today is made up of all believers in the body of Christ. Christ being the head. Is Christ going through the tribulation?


Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. They had no king. If they received Jesus as Messiah, then Israel would have been the light to the Gentiles.
Do you think it would be of any trouble for Him? I think as far as
being with us in spirit, Absolutely yes, but as to coming as lord of Lord and king of Kings not a chance.


Do you disagree with any thing here


God made an agreement with a person who became a people became a nation
That nation was divided into two nations
The northern and southern
The northern went into captivity
200 yrs later the southern went into captivity
The northern, (House of Israel) when released scattered all over the whole entire world and "lost" who they were.(Gods hasn't lost not a one)
The southern (House of Judah) went back to their lands, and Jerusalem.
Jacob, is the father of both houses so when you hear of Jacobs Trouble you know it includes both of them

Jesus came for the scattered all over the world and CHRUCH was started then and there and the House of Israel is brought together by the teachings of Christ, Christians Church of today all over the world
House of Judah, Jews, Jerusalem, Synagogues, went back and stayed in Israel till they lost it.

The fig tree generation is not just about the land of Israel BUT the House of Israel scattered over the entire world.

The fig tree generation "was CALLED into being" when the prophecy was fulfilled and in 1948 they became a nation once again. THAT SET THE TIME of the last generation in the flesh. We are to keep WATCH on it because what happens there tells US what time it is in GODS time.

BUT the Church is world wide. The house of Israel is world wide.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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No, that's not what the text is conveying (that's what the Internet has it to be saying [by abundant ppl repeating such notions], but not what the actual text is conveying, here).
I have no idea what the "internet" is saying as I have never gone and looked it up on the internet.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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That is as in never, not once.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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I Believe there is an overlap in the meaning.

Is it implied the wise got their oil through a store purchase?

"Buy" is also used in rev in the 7 letters.
"..I suggest you buy gold refined in the fire..."

I belive the inference is,I can get oil 2 places. From other believers,and the original source"heaven/Jesus"

The other inference is,both groups were aware of it.

But the lesson learned is be ready.
No oil...no go with groom

I would think that if it were possible for believers(five wise virgins) to sell them oil then they would have not said that they would not in Matthew 25:9, nor would they explain why, "not enough for both".

It seems the five wise virgins are there present tense at the same time as Babylon(Revelation 18) who sells the oil and gold(Rev.18:12 and 16) or else they would not say "to those who sell oil..." as if they were present tense but instead would say, "go to the one who is coming who will sell oil" in a future tense.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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The fig tree generation is not just about the land of Israel BUT the House of Israel scattered over the entire world.
I made a post back on Aug19 (I think) about the Luke 13:6 passage, which says, "A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard"... and how Isa5:7 says, "the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel" (my post was showing that this Lk context is showing the two things named here are DISTINCT [though RELATED]).

____________

Here's another post I made (concerning what you've put in your previous post):

[quoting that other post of mine]

Consider the following TWO (or 3, actually, and some of it is abbreviated for "length-sake" :D ) passages, about which I will also make some very brief points/comments:

1)--Matthew 25:31-46 -

The Sheep and the Goats

31 And when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit upon His throne of glory [this is His *earthly throne; see also Matt19:28!]. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him [these are "still-living" persons on the earth upon His "RETURN" there], and He will separate them one from another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And indeed He will set the sheep on His right hand, and the goats on His left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, those being blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom having been prepared for you from [apo; not BEFORE/pro said of OTHERS elsewhere!] the foundation of the world. 35 For I hungered, and you gave Me to eat [...<snip>... (etc)]

37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungering [etc...etc...]
40 And the King answering, will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did it to Me.’

41 Then also He will say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, those being cursed, into the eternal fire, having been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I hungered, and you gave to Me nothing to eat [...<snip>... (etc)]

44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither did you to Me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life.”

[these/"the righteous" (of the nationS [plural]) are who enter the MK age along with the believing remnant of Israel ("the WISE [of Israel]" spoken of in Dan12:1-4,10, and v.12 [to whom the "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom WAS PROMISED (see Acts 1:6, Matt19:28, Matt22:8-14, Lk12:35-36,38,40,42-44, Matt8:11, among other passages])... the nationS/Gentiles being "the guests [plural]" in these kinds of contexts... meaning, their/Israel's "INVITED guests [plural]" to their promised and prophesied earthly MK age<---neither of these being "the Church which is His body," per contexts; and Matthew 24:29-31 parallels Isaiah 27:12-13 (plz see this passage!) when the elect of Israel (having come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture) will (at the END of the trib) be gathered "ONE by ONE" to "worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (ENTERING the MK AGE)]


2)--Matthew 20:16 and Matthew 22:14 (considered in their contexts*), "For many are called [G2822 - [kletoi], but few chosen [G1588 - eklektoi]."

[*contexts: Matthew 20:16 is in the context of "Labourers in the vineyard" (see Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel"); and Matthew 22:14 is in the context of "inviting the guests [plural (i.e. "the nations")] to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [aka the earthly MK age]" (note: not "the MARRIAGE/UNION-with[G4862]" thing! "The BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" is NOT "the guestS [PLURAL]" etc); these TWO passages cover both "Israel" and "the Gentiles/nations" which are both distinct [and kept distinct in these passages and other related ones (like, for example in Rev7, where they are set in contradistinction to each other)] not only from each other [distinct], but also distinct from "the Church which is His body" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN)]

[end quoting that post]
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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And not only are nations separated by so are the Priests, and we see the "dead" there to.


Ezekiel 44:4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.

Ezekiel 44:5 And the LORD said unto me, Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the LORD, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,

Ezekiel 44:7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

Ezekiel 44:8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.

Ezekiel 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Ezekiel 44:10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

Ezekiel 44:11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

Ezekiel 44:12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

Ezekiel 44:13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

Ezekiel 44:14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

Ezekiel 44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:

Ezekiel 44:16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

Ezekiel 44:17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

Ezekiel 44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.

Ezekiel 44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.

Ezekiel 44:20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.

Ezekiel 44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.

Ezekiel 44:22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Ezekiel 44:25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
 

Pinkney

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deep south
This is how God ends his Holy Bible

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. ....

....... Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Who is the bride and who is the body? the word rapture is not mentioned.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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And not only are nations separated by so are the Priests, and we see the "dead" there to.
Ezekiel 44:4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.
[…]
Ezekiel 44:25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
I've never suggested there won't be "death" in the MK age (if that is what you are intending by posting that passage [??]); but that death will be much more rare (reserved only for the rebellious; and not pertaining to the "still-living [mortals] saints" who ENTER the MK age, but will be applicable instead to those BORN TO THEM [and so on; IN/DURING the MK age], who will not be "BORN automatically righteous" [thus these will be the only ones susceptible to "death" IN/DURING the MK age]).

Aside from that, I have no idea how what you posted relates to the points *I* was actually making (esp. about the trib years that PRECEDE the commencement of the MK age [and that "our Rapture" PRECEDES even the trib years])
 

TooFastTurtle

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Who is the bride and who is the body? the word rapture is not mentioned.
The word rapture is not mentioned, but the word harpazo is mentioned.

The word rapture comes from the latin bible translation of the word harpazo.

The word harpazo is translated in our english Bibles as "caught up".

It does not really matter if you call it the rapture or catching up, its all the same. People are resurrected (the dead in Christ shall rise first) and then people (then us who are alive and remain) who are alive at that time will be translated into their glorified bodies in a moment in a twinkling of an eye. It is really simple
 

iamsoandso

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Revelation 19:21,,,the beast and the false prophet and the Devil/Satan Revelation 20:1-4 are removed prior to the MK and therefore are not present during the MK.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
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these TWO passages cover both "Israel" and "the Gentiles/nations" which are both distinct [and kept distinct in these passages and other related ones (like, for example in Rev7, where they are set in contradistinction to each other)] not only from each other [distinct], but also distinct from "the Church which is His body"]
How many people today consider themselves to be a 'gentile' when in reality they are of the 'House of Israel'?

Do you think that those who do consider themselves to be a gentile are more along the lines of Esau, and those who consider themselves to be of the House of Israel more along the lines of Jacob?
I would think that if it were possible for believers(five wise virgins) to sell them oil then they would have not said that they would not in Matthew 25:9, nor would they explain why, "not enough for both".

It seems the five wise virgins are there present tense at the same time as Babylon(Revelation 18) who sells the oil and gold(Rev.18:12 and 16) or else they would not say "to those who sell oil..." as if they were present tense but instead would say, "go to the one who is coming who will sell oil" in a future tense.

Both the foolish and wise are virgins today, as Satan has not come to take their "virginity" yet. The difference between the two sets are the wise are "studying to show themselves approved, putting on the full gospel armor, therefore knowing the order of events so as not to be deceived when Satan comes to do just that, to seduce and deceive, to all those who "profess" they know and love the Lord" . The foolish on the other hand, are giving a bunch of lip service to the Word. They are not putting on the full gospel armor, so they don't know Satan is coming first, and will not recognize that it is false christ

Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, (not a virgin after that) if it were possible, even the elect

Daniel 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

Daniel 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.


Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Daniel 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end because it is yet for a time appointed.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished for that that is determined shall be done.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Daniel 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

Daniel 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

Daniel 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.





Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


























Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince
 

TheDivineWatermark

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TheDivineWatermark said: [and DA quoted]

these TWO passages cover both "Israel" and "the Gentiles/nations" which are both distinct [and kept distinct in these passages and other related ones (like, for example in Rev7, where they are set in contradistinction to each other)] not only from each other [distinct], but also distinct from "the Church which is His body" (TDW had added to this part, but wasn't included at the time DA grabbed it to quote: "Eph1:20-23 WHEN")]
How many people today consider themselves to be a 'gentile' when in reality they are of the 'House of Israel'?

Do you think that those who do consider themselves to be a gentile are more along the lines of Esau, and those who consider themselves to be of the House of Israel more along the lines of Jacob?
Romans 11:25 (through v.29 for immediate context; and chpts 9-11 for overall context [re: "nations"..."Israel [singular nation]" and "the Gentiles [plural nations]" compared and contrasted]),

"[...] that a hardening [G4457] in part is happened to ISRAEL, *UNTIL* the fulness [G4138 - pleroma] of the Gentiles BE COME IN [G1525]…"


[got knocked offline while attempting to post this, so the full thought has been left hanging/unfinished... maybe later I can finish the full thought]
 

TooFastTurtle

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There are so many allusions to the rapture in the old testament its really a blessing to me to be looking into that currently. I am doing it with a few brothers in the faith.

I know the doctrine of the catching up of the body of Christ is a mystery revealed to Paul specifically, but I believe it is spoken of elsewhere in Scripture too, but not clearly laid out as Paul did

I think we all agree that Jesus will fulfill the all the Jewish feasts? The rapture would be the feast of trumpets (last trump) and the precise hour of it was impossible to count (No man knows the day or hour)
 

iamsoandso

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So if they go to those who sell oil,and Babylon is who sells it,and only those who receive the mark can buy and sell then what do they have to do to buy the oil?
 

Ahwatukee

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Who is the bride and who is the body? the word rapture is not mentioned.
Good day Pinkney,

The bride and the body are the same, just using different monikers to refer to the church.

The word rapture is not in the Greek translation, but the word "harpazo" is, meaning a snatching away, force suddenly exercised, a catching up. The word rapture is found in the Latin translation which basically means the same thing as harpazo.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

The above is the fulfillment of the promise below:

My Father’s house
has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. ."

Hope this is helpful
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
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Revelation 19:21,,,the beast and the false prophet and the Devil/Satan Revelation 20:1-4 are removed prior to the MK and therefore are not present during the MK.
I agree the beast and the false prophet are removed BUT NOT Satan, he is in the bottomless pit, but will be released again.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand ears were finished. This is the first resurrection.
 

DeighAnn

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Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand ears were finished. This is the first resurrection.


With this being THE FIRST RESURRECTION, how can a resurrection of any sort come before this, this obviously AFTER Satan?