Top 6 Ways Pastors Keep Their Sheep At Bay

[kaylagrl]

Where?

No bandaid applied.

Odd that people can condemn millions of believers, their Pastors and such without even having personally worshiped with them.

But that's how it's done huh?

I don't think the OP condemned anyone. I think the OP is saying the pastor needs to be more hands on. That's the type of church and pastor they prefer. If you don't mind a huge church where you never get to speak with the pastor, that's up to you. I attend a country church, I know my pastor personally. My mother took a bad fall down the stairs last year. My pastor was at the hospital at the same time my father and I arrived. He was coming home from a funeral, all dressed in a suit. My father and I had to run to back to their house and our pastor stayed in the room with my mother, talking to the nurses for her because she was in too much pain. He stayed until we left with her. Now I'm not judging, but I don't think that would happen if I attended Joel Osteen's church. I think that is the point the OP is trying to make. Pastors use to be hands on, and that has changed, not necessarily for the better.

 

[kaylagrl]

Marshall County Alabama has about 160 churches. So, for the OP.... how many of the Pastors of those do you personally know? Yet you do not hesitate to judge them?

You're being over sensitive to what the OP is saying. He's simply saying pastors need to be more hands on.

 

[kaylagrl]

Welcome to CC, DesertWanderer…
Your list seems to be founded on the idea that only the on-staff pastor is capable of ministering to people's needs. That is a misunderstanding of both the pastoral role and the body of Christ. Nobody is capable of meeting all the pastoral needs of more than about 30 people along with regular preaching/teaching and dealing with the usual silliness that "church" entails. Even Jesus only had 12 close disciples.

By the way, the word is "altar".

While I understand, and almost always agree, with you brother, I'll give an example. I attended a small church with a young couple as pastors. They were often away and unable to reach. Family called from home and told us that my mothers nephew had had a heart attack and slipped into a coma. He was 40. He wasn't saved and my mother was distraught. She just slumped to the floor, crying. I called for the pastor, no answer. My sister happened to be in town so we drove to the church. No pastor. The janitor and his wife were cleaning the church and opened the door. They called the pastor, his wife, the deacons, anyone they thought knew where the pastor was. No pastor to be found. Finally the janitors wife turned to me and asked me what the issue was. It wasn't personal, so I told her and she wrapped her arms around my sister and I and prayed. We went back to my mother, still distraught, and had to tell her the pastor was no where to be found. I don't think he ever called her. Perhaps he spoke to her later. I understand the pastor can't be everywhere at once, he's not God. But if at all possible I expect him to be there when something seriously wrong happens, or at least be able to contact him. That is why he is there.

Years ago my father worked with a guy that wasn't a Christian. One night, in the middle of the night my father said he got a call from his man. He didn't know him well, he certainly hadn't given him his number. He told my father he was sitting on his bed with a loaded gun, his wife had left him. He said my father was the only Christian he knew and before he took his life he decided to give him a call. My father told him not to move, he was on his way. He jumped out of bed and took off and that night that man became a Christian and still is to this day. I expect to be able to contact my pastor, I expect when there is an emergency that I can get in touch with him, even if he is away. I think it's important to have a hands on pastor and I wouldn't attend a church where the pastor didn't know me personally, know my name and I could contact him in a time of need. JMO Others may not care.

 

[Dino246]

While I understand, and almost always agree, with you brother, I'll give an example. I attended a small church with a young couple as pastors. They were often away and unable to reach. Family called from home and told us that my mothers nephew had had a heart attack and slipped into a coma. He was 40. He wasn't saved and my mother was distraught. She just slumped to the floor, crying. I called for the pastor, no answer. My sister happened to be in town so we drove to the church. No pastor. The janitor and his wife were cleaning the church and opened the door. They called the pastor, his wife, the deacons, anyone they thought knew where the pastor was. No pastor to be found. Finally the janitors wife turned to me and asked me what the issue was. It wasn't personal, so I told her and she wrapped her arms around my sister and I and prayed. We went back to my mother, still distraught, and had to tell her the pastor was no where to be found. I don't think he ever called her. Perhaps he spoke to her later. I understand the pastor can't be everywhere at once, he's not God. But if at all possible I expect him to be there when something seriously wrong happens, or at least be able to contact him. That is why he is there.

Years ago my father worked with a guy that wasn't a Christian. One night, in the middle of the night my father said he got a call from his man. He didn't know him well, he certainly hadn't given him his number. He told my father he was sitting on his bed with a loaded gun, his wife had left him. He said my father was the only Christian he knew and before he took his life he decided to give him a call. My father told him not to move, he was on his way. He jumped out of bed and took off and that night that man became a Christian and still is to this day. I expect to be able to contact my pastor, I expect when there is an emergency that I can get in touch with him, even if he is away. I think it's important to have a hands on pastor and I wouldn't attend a church where the pastor didn't know me personally, know my name and I could contact him in a time of need. JMO Others may not care.

I don't disagree that in a very small church (less than about 50 people), the pastor should be available for these situations. However, once a church exceeds that size, it makes far more sense for there to be a team of competent leaders, any of whom can function "pastorally" in a crisis.

What your Dad was great, though every adult Christian (who has been saved for five years or more) should be able to do the same. Ideally, the local congregation should be replete with competent "ministers" of the gospel.

 

[melita916]

i've only been to 2 local assemblies in my life. in both assemblies, the pastor was always active in interacting with the congregation.

i'm guessing because both assemblies were on the smaller size.

 

[dodgingstones]

You're being over sensitive to what the OP is saying. He's simply saying pastors need to be more hands on.

I don't think so.... but...

The copy paste portion of the OP was quite negative... condemn is to judge, and BTW, I never stated condemned to hell.... The OP wasn't the only negative comment either....

I have never attended a Megachurch. Or do I want to.

Anyway.... I am sensitive when folks start bashing God's Anointed Preachers.

Folks can think as they wish.... I don't agree that th vast majority of churches are messed up or whatever. Nor do I think the various things cagltegorized in the OP are unGodly.

Paul said to do all things in an orderly manner, and he laid out the positions of Bishops and Deacons in the Church.

[time to charge phone]

 

[Dino246]

Some other factors that should be considered are the "pastor's" gifting and job description. In many cases, the person whom congregants assume is "the pastor" is not actually tasked with pastoral care, particularly in multi-staff congregations. He or she might be tasked with preaching, teaching, and CEO functions specifically, while "pastoring" is assigned to other staff. I attended one church where the main preacher was distinctly not gifted as a pastor (I would almost consider him "incompetent"), but the assistant was gifted in that role. The one time I made a crisis call to the 'lead' pastor, his response was quite unhelpful.

For several years, my Mom worked as a church secretary, one of three. They were tasked with screening calls, because many of the inquiries were issues that the secretaries themselves could handle, or that had been assigned to other elders. However, many people would refuse to divulge even the most cursory details about the inquiry, and simply demanded to speak to the pastor. Far too often, he had to send the caller back to the secretaries, because they had the needed information and he didn't. Maybe, along with everything else, pastors need to teach their congregants how to interact with the admin staff!

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't disagree that in a very small church (less than about 50 people), the pastor should be available for these situations. However, once a church exceeds that size, it makes far more sense for there to be a team of competent leaders, any of whom can function "pastorally" in a crisis.

What your Dad was great, though every adult Christian (who has been saved for five years or more) should be able to do the same. Ideally, the local congregation should be replete with competent "ministers" of the gospel.

No, that is true, I can't disagree with you there. I think of course there has to be a balance, the pastor cannot do it all. But I do think in some instances we've gone the entire other way where the pastor doesn't know the congregants and he's only see when he's on the stage. So yes, balance between the two is needed.

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't think so.... but...

The copy paste portion of the OP was quite negative... condemn is to judge, and BTW, I never stated condemned to hell.... The OP wasn't the only negative comment either....

I have never attended a Megachurch. Or do I want to.

Anyway.... I am sensitive when folks start bashing God's Anointed Preachers.

Folks can think as they wish.... I don't agree that th vast majority of churches are messed up or whatever. Nor do I think the various things cagltegorized in the OP are unGodly.

Paul said to do all things in an orderly manner, and he laid out the positions of Bishops and Deacons in the Church.

[time to charge phone]

No, I can agree with you too. I have pastors in my family, I was in traveling ministry with my parents and sister for 20 yrs. I'm sensitive when people say evangelists are in it for the money. I hear it often. So I certainly don't agree with bashing pastors. I've sat with pastors and their wives weeping over how their church was treating them. So I've been on all sides of the issue. And I don't totally disagree with you. I have a wonderful pastor and wife team in the church I attend. Balance is needed between the two. If I was too harsh in my response to you, I didn't mean to be. Pastoring a church is not an easy job by any means. Not only family, but I have pastor friends. So I understand all sides. Blessings.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Mega churches aren't totally bad; some of their features are quite beneficial.

Mega churches typically have larger budgets to work with so they can afford
better accommodations, better facilities, more parking, and better
entertainment. Many even have their own baptismal tanks whereas small
churches don't always have one of their own on-site.

Mega churches are a good place to begin easing back into society. For quite
a few years I was a friendless loner living solo in a very small cabin and
spending all my free time alone. The day finally came when I wanted to
begin going to church but at the same time dreaded attention. Well; a mega
church was just the right venue for me because their numbers are so huge
that nobody really knows who's a new guy and who isn't so the invisibility
gave me ample time to get used to being around people again.

Another advantage of mega churches is the size of their singles groups. I
actually had a pretty good time attending singles events, participating in
their activities, and getting to know people. I met my wife in a mega church
singles group. We've been together as of today for 39 years; it'll be 40 come
March. Our son has a family of his own now and I'm a grandpa. All in all,
I've lived a pretty normal life. That would likely have never come to pass
had I not began attending a mega church.
_

 

[Lightskin]

My suggestion if you wish to find true fellowship is to find small fellowships of born again believers.

This ^^^^^

 

[DesertWanderer]

Welcome to CC, DesertWanderer…
Your list seems to be founded on the idea that only the on-staff pastor is capable of ministering to people's needs. That is a misunderstanding of both the pastoral role and the body of Christ. Nobody is capable of meeting all the pastoral needs of more than about 30 people along with regular preaching/teaching and dealing with the usual silliness that "church" entails. Even Jesus only had 12 close disciples.

By the way, the word is "altar".

Sorry for the misspelling. Never my strong suit.

I first have to address the tired old excuse that the pastor can only handle a congregation of 30 or less, otherwise he is just too busy. I'm handling 3 businesses just to try and make my mortgage payments. On top of that I have my seven year old son every weekend. I live alone in a house that needs a lot of maintenance. I'm busy too.

But let's use your example of the original twelve that Jesus chose to be His disciples. If the pastors in our churches would actually follow Jesus' example and disciple twelve people, here's what would happen:

Each disciple would be responsible for coming alongside 2 more people. Their disciples would be responsible for two more people. Then two more. Then two more after that. That's the way it would be-- if the top-down strategy actually worked. In this example we would have close to 100 disciples ready to serve outside the four walls of the church.

But we all know this isn't happening. The pastors are too busy with the "silliness that church entails." These are activities such as building acquisition and maintenance, putting expensive programs together to "get more members," mission trips half way around the world, and so many other things that keep him from having any relationship whatsoever to the individual member. Discipleship isn't even in the plans anymore. The main focus now is getting "more members."

You remember what Jesus told the young ruler who wanted to follow Him, right? He told him to go and sell all of his possessions and give it all to the poor. I think that is a great example for the churches in the U.S. to follow. Sell your church buildings and give the money to the poor. The church would survive just fine, because we as Christians are the church-- not the buildings we confine ourselves in for an hour a week.

 

[DesertWanderer]

Mega churches aren't totally bad; some of their features are quite beneficial.

I sense that there is a misconception about my original post here. I was talking about all pastors in all churches. In fact, where I'm from, the largest churches have about 1000 members. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about.

The last church I attended (about three weeks ago) had exactly 23 people in the congregation. That's including the pastor's wife and older son. When I walked in for the first time, I was greeted by the pastor--well, sort of. He managed to give me a "hello" and a quick handshake before he dashed off. I sincerely believe Donald Trump to be much more cordial than that!

Anyway, I was greeted by the pastor's wife as I sat down in one of the very empty pews. She did manage to say, "Good morning, we're glad you're here." I replied with a polite, "thank you." Just as I was about to start a conversation, she darted off to the front to say hello to someone whom she probably had known for a hundred years. I looked around at gave a smile and a wave to some of the friendlier-looking people. And as usual, I was looked upon as an invader; or perhaps someone who had leprosy.

After the 30 minute sermon was over, the pastor did a Usain Bolt imitation and ran straight out the back entrance. I'm sure he broke some sort of world record that day. I never saw the man again. To this day, they are still searching for him.

Of course, this was a queue for everyone else to see how fast they could get in their cars and drive away. I believe as a first time visitor I was the last person out of the building that Sunday.

Of couse, like always, the little visitor card I filled out was never followed up on. I never received a phone call or e-mail. And as always, I felt like my precious Sabbath day was wasted.