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E
I am sorry. But scripture states he died for all sin. Last I heard all meant all. What sin did Christ not die for?
If we can lose salvation because of sin, we are still under law.
Again, I agree with you. We can not hide any sin. God will hold us accountable.
But a father would not kick us out of his family because we messed up (sinned against him) why would we think our heavenly father would.
Paul said I was not given a spirit of fear. Well if I could lose salvation by sinning, I better fear. So did Paul lie?
And again, I think you have me confused for a licentious person.
In my mind legalism is just as dangerous as licentiousness, because we are trusting in the law to earn our salvation by being good enough. And even then, what is the standard of being good enough? And not trusting the blood of Christ who saved us by his death.
If we can lose salvation because of sin, we are still under law.
Again, I agree with you. We can not hide any sin. God will hold us accountable.
But a father would not kick us out of his family because we messed up (sinned against him) why would we think our heavenly father would.
Paul said I was not given a spirit of fear. Well if I could lose salvation by sinning, I better fear. So did Paul lie?
And again, I think you have me confused for a licentious person.
In my mind legalism is just as dangerous as licentiousness, because we are trusting in the law to earn our salvation by being good enough. And even then, what is the standard of being good enough? And not trusting the blood of Christ who saved us by his death.
E
The term grace literally means "unmerited" or unearned favor.
Mankind is still alive and walking the earth by grace, For mankind deserved to be wiped off the face of the earth the moment we turned our backs on God.
It is by Gods grace we have the chance to come to him, and it is by Gods grace we are given mercy and forgiveness. And it is by Gods grace we are not kicked out of his family every time we sin. For without Gods grace we would have nothing but condemnation, which we ALL deserve.
Mankind is still alive and walking the earth by grace, For mankind deserved to be wiped off the face of the earth the moment we turned our backs on God.
It is by Gods grace we have the chance to come to him, and it is by Gods grace we are given mercy and forgiveness. And it is by Gods grace we are not kicked out of his family every time we sin. For without Gods grace we would have nothing but condemnation, which we ALL deserve.
See, you have added to what I meant. I never said anything about losing our salvation, but rather never gaining it. I was asked by a minister if Jesus died for all sins once. When I said yes, he then answered that all men are saved because of that. This is foolishness.
Paul wrote that salvation is by grace, and that through faith. What we need, must come to understand completely, is what grace is. As long as we are staying away from God, then we are seeking salvation, and have not yet attained. And even when we do gain grace, we understand that it is by His choice, and we are humbled in His presence.
Take a close look at the life of Moses, and see the truth of grace.
Through and in Jesus Christ, we have grace such as Moses saw from afar.
Eternal life is knowing God, the one true God.
Hence, He is able to save forever those who are drawing near to God through Him, because He always lives to make intercession for them.
Jesus came to reconcile us back to God. This is salvation.
In Christ,
Paul wrote that salvation is by grace, and that through faith. What we need, must come to understand completely, is what grace is. As long as we are staying away from God, then we are seeking salvation, and have not yet attained. And even when we do gain grace, we understand that it is by His choice, and we are humbled in His presence.
Take a close look at the life of Moses, and see the truth of grace.
Through and in Jesus Christ, we have grace such as Moses saw from afar.
Eternal life is knowing God, the one true God.
Hence, He is able to save forever those who are drawing near to God through Him, because He always lives to make intercession for them.
Jesus came to reconcile us back to God. This is salvation.
In Christ,
E
Yes, But why did he write it? Because the people he wrote to were trying to go back to law. What does the law say? if you sin, you have fallen away, and must go to the temple to have that sin forgiven. (sacrifice)
lets look at the passage;
Heb 6 : 4 - 5: It is impossible
What is impossible, and who is the were? The what we come to later the who are...
for those who were Once enlightened, and have tasted the heavanly gift, and have become partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the age to come
if you have partaken with the holy spirit amd tasted the heavenly gift (Salvation) and tasted the good works of God,
These people are saved, because only those who have tasted these things are those who have accepted christ and been saved.
now we come to the what...
If they fall away,
falling away means a person has fallen from one state to another,, in other words, they have fallen from grace and lost their salvation.. This is what the law taught. So the statement is.. if ( if this could happen)
now we come to what the impossible is
to renew them to repentance
the author is saying. if a person is saved, and has fallen away ( if they could ) it would be impossible to renew them to repentance or re-save them, (they would be lost forever.)
Why?
because they crucify again for themselves the son of God and put him to open shame
they say there was a sin God did not die for.. so in order for them to be resaved God would have to return to earth, and die again for that sin, thus the mere belief one could lose salvation puts Christ to shame, saying his death was not complete. .
lets look at the passage;
Heb 6 : 4 - 5: It is impossible
What is impossible, and who is the were? The what we come to later the who are...
for those who were Once enlightened, and have tasted the heavanly gift, and have become partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of god and the powers of the age to come
if you have partaken with the holy spirit amd tasted the heavenly gift (Salvation) and tasted the good works of God,
These people are saved, because only those who have tasted these things are those who have accepted christ and been saved.
now we come to the what...
If they fall away,
falling away means a person has fallen from one state to another,, in other words, they have fallen from grace and lost their salvation.. This is what the law taught. So the statement is.. if ( if this could happen)
now we come to what the impossible is
to renew them to repentance
the author is saying. if a person is saved, and has fallen away ( if they could ) it would be impossible to renew them to repentance or re-save them, (they would be lost forever.)
Why?
because they crucify again for themselves the son of God and put him to open shame
they say there was a sin God did not die for.. so in order for them to be resaved God would have to return to earth, and die again for that sin, thus the mere belief one could lose salvation puts Christ to shame, saying his death was not complete. .
It has been said that grace is unmerited favor, and this is true. But while we understand unmerited, we do not have a firm grasp on favor. Look at it like this and see if it does bring conviction; we are approaching Majesty on high, the Almighty Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ, the One who sits on the throne from whence comes lightnings and thunders and smoke and flame. Ezekiel saw things that are in His persence that no one has yet understood, wheels within wheels with eyes all around and many other things besides. These things are just the barest glomer of the trappings of our God, and this is Who we are drawing near to.
Grace, His favor, is that He allows us to draw near, into His presence. Awe inspiring does not do Him justice.
But we have another level of grace, so misunderstood and abused, grieved. This same God sends His Spirit, Who is truly His heart, to live in our hearts and commune with us. He earnestly desires the Spirit that He has put in us. This too is grace.
I know that grace is not taught this way, but search the scriptures and your heart and the Spirit. See what He says.
In Christ,
Grace, His favor, is that He allows us to draw near, into His presence. Awe inspiring does not do Him justice.
But we have another level of grace, so misunderstood and abused, grieved. This same God sends His Spirit, Who is truly His heart, to live in our hearts and commune with us. He earnestly desires the Spirit that He has put in us. This too is grace.
I know that grace is not taught this way, but search the scriptures and your heart and the Spirit. See what He says.
In Christ,
I don't believe that the writer of Hebrews was saying that at all.'if one has received the gift, has tasted of the gift, and then falls away, it is impossible to return them. This passage shows the absolute wonder and pricelessness of grace. Our salvation is of great cost; there was no other way but the death of the Son that we could be reconciled. To trample this under our feet I don't think would be forgiven, and seems to me to be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
C
many times israel turned away as chronicled and each time they came back with a repentant heart and turned from their wicked ways God restored them.
as for Heb 6 only God knows in advance if at all one will come back to the fold, that being the case, grace abounds otherwise the cross has nil effect and the moment we fall short we might(which we do) as well give up and not bother with God no more
even paul said of alexander the coppersmith, given over to satan for a season, not eternally
as for Heb 6 only God knows in advance if at all one will come back to the fold, that being the case, grace abounds otherwise the cross has nil effect and the moment we fall short we might(which we do) as well give up and not bother with God no more
even paul said of alexander the coppersmith, given over to satan for a season, not eternally
If one has never tasted true grace, has never received the gift of the Holy Spirit, but they believe, there is always room for repentance. But if one has come to the living God, has tasted the heavenly gift, has received the gift of God living in their heart, and then turn away, there is no room for repentance. They have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. They have trampled the blood of Jesus under foot. They have in effect, completely rejected God after receiving the gift of life.
For me personally, I cannot imagine any circumstance where one would ever do such a thing, and it may well be impossible. But if one did do this, they are lost.
This was written so we would know just how precious these things are in God's sight. They are much more valuable than we can even begin to know.
In Christ,
For me personally, I cannot imagine any circumstance where one would ever do such a thing, and it may well be impossible. But if one did do this, they are lost.
This was written so we would know just how precious these things are in God's sight. They are much more valuable than we can even begin to know.
In Christ,
F
Joseph Prince??? Martin Luther, John Calvin
You believe what you want, not the bible, which says Christ died to destroy sin & anyone who sins is of the devil. No one who is born of God continues in sin. Not one of the posts on grace on this page uses scripture. Nor does that post on fathers not getting rid of their kids is bringing God down to our level. Adam was a son of God & all of humanity was called the sons of God , until they gave in to Satan. Sin is allegiance to Satan. The bible tells what not to do & it none of it is to hard for us. None of you are acknowledging the power of God to cleanse us & keep us from all sin.
You believe what you want, not the bible, which says Christ died to destroy sin & anyone who sins is of the devil. No one who is born of God continues in sin. Not one of the posts on grace on this page uses scripture. Nor does that post on fathers not getting rid of their kids is bringing God down to our level. Adam was a son of God & all of humanity was called the sons of God , until they gave in to Satan. Sin is allegiance to Satan. The bible tells what not to do & it none of it is to hard for us. None of you are acknowledging the power of God to cleanse us & keep us from all sin.
im now under the impression that when we do get saved, it's an ongoing process and not something once you do youre set for life, because if that were so, i could now truly deny God all i want, turn from everything ive been, and turn back to sin & wickedness, and yet still be saved...
from what i believe, OSAS contradicts not only 2 Timothy 2:12 but Revelation 2:8-11
from what i believe, OSAS contradicts not only 2 Timothy 2:12 but Revelation 2:8-11
Do you have the Holy Spirit? Does He not reveal to you the truth?
We are sinners by birth. Paul wrote that by the one man Adam, all died. He went so far as to write that we were already dead in our sins. But then he wrote about our obligations, and slavery.
The guide you are following is not and was never intended to guide believers in righteousness. As sinfulness is by birth, so is righteousness. As long as we inhabit this flesh, we are bearers of sin and death. Because of sin, our bodies are dying, yet by the Spirit in us our bodies live.
And we would do well to remember what John wrote about purifying ourselves.
In Christ,
We are sinners by birth. Paul wrote that by the one man Adam, all died. He went so far as to write that we were already dead in our sins. But then he wrote about our obligations, and slavery.
The guide you are following is not and was never intended to guide believers in righteousness. As sinfulness is by birth, so is righteousness. As long as we inhabit this flesh, we are bearers of sin and death. Because of sin, our bodies are dying, yet by the Spirit in us our bodies live.
And we would do well to remember what John wrote about purifying ourselves.
In Christ,
It truly is a process, one whereby we come to know and be known by God through Jesus Christ. Nothing is more important than drawing near to the Father in love and worship, because it is here that we are changed in our souls, because as we behold His glory, we receive glory. (Every other way of growth into grace and eternal life is wrong, because it seeks glory from some other place than God. When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees saying that they searched scripture thinking that they would find eternal life in them, that they were seeking glory from men.)
John gave to me the best example of Christian growth, (which is growth in Jesus which equates growth into salvation.) John showed that little children have their sins forgiven for His name's sake. Then he shows that young men Christians have the word living in them, which comes by the work of the Holy Spirit making the word alive in their heart and mind. And then he shows father Christians by the best attribute of all, that they know the Father. They have spent the time with Him to come to know Him, and who He is.
And in that day, when we see Him with our eyes, we will realize the fruition of all that God has planed for us, because we will become just as He is. But in the mean time, we spend time in His presence, where we are changed into His image from glory to glory.
InChrist,
John gave to me the best example of Christian growth, (which is growth in Jesus which equates growth into salvation.) John showed that little children have their sins forgiven for His name's sake. Then he shows that young men Christians have the word living in them, which comes by the work of the Holy Spirit making the word alive in their heart and mind. And then he shows father Christians by the best attribute of all, that they know the Father. They have spent the time with Him to come to know Him, and who He is.
And in that day, when we see Him with our eyes, we will realize the fruition of all that God has planed for us, because we will become just as He is. But in the mean time, we spend time in His presence, where we are changed into His image from glory to glory.
InChrist,