Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#116,221
#116,221
EleventhHour said:
A bit of a wordsmith here..... hope you do not mind......they do not "leave the faith", they never were in the faith.
Click to expand...
So let me clarify @PennEd ... you are right the faith is the "body of belief" so the way you stated is good... sorry I just hate to give leeway to those who say we can leave salvation.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,222
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,222
OneOfHis said:
Amen.
This is of faith, and if genuine when we pray we believe He hears, when we read the inspired written word we know it's True and when we walk in the spirit, it would mean our spirit is already quickened. (made alive)
Though many believe they have been made new and are in Christ, He never knew them.


_________

I typed this out awhile ago but I believe the verse you bring up has more to do with the goat among sheep or wheat among tares.... the braches that bare fruit and those completely void of fruit....

I believe the timing of this lesson and Judas is important.

___________

John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Two sorts of branches


branches that bare fruit

"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"


and branches that do not bare fruit

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"



______

I believe in me, would be those in the church, the body of Christ....

Some of which are not actually born again but have many supposed wonderful works to try to point to....

I believe these verses have absolutely nothing to do with a born again child of God, being thrown into fire...
Click to expand...
Sure is a good feeling to read that lol .... thing is.... why would He instruct us to abide?
If we are sealed and on believing it is a done deal then these verses are problematic in that if we are not abiding we are cast in the fire..... so this is not saying we get in as if by fire if we are saved but not bearing fruit🤔Abiding is different to believing and trusting... it reminds me of the verse which says we work out our salvation with fear and trembling another difficult one lol but I haven't studied it in depth I must admit....
 
J

JadenS

Banned
#116,224
Oct 24, 2019
494
40
28
#116,224
PennEd said:
Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!
Click to expand...
If thou say: I have not strength enough: he that seeth into the heart, he understandeth, and nothing deceiveth the keeper of thy soul, and he shall render to a man according to his works.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,225
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,225
Discern said:
John Baptist talked about those not bearing fruit being cast into the fire,because they did not bring forth fruit meet for repentance. I think perhaps that was referring to mere outward show without inward reality. Going through the motions, but no actual change of heart.
Click to expand...
Lol so you can bear fruit without repenting??? Oh man this needs more study👌
 
J

JadenS

Banned
#116,226
Oct 24, 2019
494
40
28
#116,226
PennEd said:
Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!
Click to expand...
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#116,227
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#116,227
I guess for some folks the sealing of the Holy Spirit is similar to an earthly envelope where any man in a pair of leather shoes can just come along and open the seal and tear up the envelope.

GOTTA LOVE IT.
 
J

JadenS

Banned
#116,228
Oct 24, 2019
494
40
28
#116,228
PennEd said:
Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!
Click to expand...
Who will render to every man according to his works.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,229
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,229
JadenS said:
If thou say: I have not strength enough: he that seeth into the heart, he understandeth, and nothing deceiveth the keeper of thy soul, and he shall render to a man according to his works.
Click to expand...
This is not about salvation as I far as I can see it would be related to rewards for God's people, how we have built i.e.: wood, hay & stubble or gold etc that can be tried in the fire....
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#116,230
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#116,230
Butterflyyy said:
Lol so you can bear fruit without repenting??? Oh man this needs more study👌
Click to expand...
Hey my friend again. I know im your favorite poster here and that you love me dearly based on interactions we've had in the past. ITS GOOD. I love you back too.

But you know thats exactly the case, REPENTANCE is inward, and FRUITS OF REPENTANCE means the outward showing of that inward change. Thats the whole gimmick here, INSIDE change, pharisees were always busy with the ONLY the outside while biblically BOTH are important, inside and outside.
 
J

JadenS

Banned
#116,231
Oct 24, 2019
494
40
28
#116,231
PennEd said:
Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!
Click to expand...
Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works.
 
J

JadenS

Banned
#116,232
Oct 24, 2019
494
40
28
#116,232
PennEd said:
Who said the individual Israelites that died in unbelief were EVER His Children?
John tells us that those who leave the faith were NEVER His to begin with.


So go to work, BUT, stop working to maintain your Salvation. Realize how offensive it is to preach that God will cast His born again Children, that He died for, gave a NEW heart to, made a NEW creation, into the Lake of Fire!
Click to expand...
Thau. Thou shalt render them a recompense, O Lord, according to the works of their hands.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#116,233
#116,233
Hevosmies said:
I guess for some folks the sealing of the Holy Spirit is similar to an earthly envelope where any man in a pair of leather shoes can just come along and open the seal and tear up the envelope.

GOTTA LOVE IT.
Click to expand...
Absolutely Agree!!!
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#116,234
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#116,234
EleventhHour said:
Absolutely Agree!!!
Click to expand...
One thing i've noticed about these guys is they leave GOD out the picture completely. When you read passages in the Bible about any given topic, USUALLY God is always active, always doing something, even in POLITICAL MATTERS in the OT its clear God is moving the pieces, and will do so again SOON according to Revelation 17:17.

Yet these men got a system where GOD is UNEMPLOYED, He isnt really doing anything He is just kinda watching and hoping things will turn out good, cant do nothin about it tho, but MAYBE someone will be saved.

Some folks dont even believe God knows the future, a certain man named Jesse Morrell teaches that, AINT IT AMAZING how some of these guys can think and breathe at the same time?
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,235
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,235
Hevosmies said:
I guess for some folks the sealing of the Holy Spirit is similar to an earthly envelope where any man in a pair of leather shoes can just come along and open the seal and tear up the envelope.

GOTTA LOVE IT.
Click to expand...
Surely if He seals you then your sealed until the day of redemption??
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,236
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,236
Hevosmies said:
One thing i've noticed about these guys is they leave GOD out the picture completely. When you read passages in the Bible about any given topic, USUALLY God is always active, always doing something, even in POLITICAL MATTERS in the OT its clear God is moving the pieces, and will do so again SOON according to Revelation 17:17.

Yet these men got a system where GOD is UNEMPLOYED, He isnt really doing anything He is just kinda watching and hoping things will turn out good, cant do nothin about it tho, but MAYBE someone will be saved.

Some folks dont even believe God knows the future, a certain man named Jesse Morrell teaches that, AINT IT AMAZING how some of these guys can think and breathe at the same time?
Click to expand...
God has a plan and it will come to pass and in fact is doing; look at Israel becoming a nation again in 1948🙌
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#116,238
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,103
113
#116,238
JadenS said:
If thou say: I have not strength enough: he that seeth into the heart, he understandeth, and nothing deceiveth the keeper of thy soul, and he shall render to a man according to his works.
Click to expand...
Go away Jaden. Or is an ignore in order?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.