Ezekiel's Temple

[Scrobulous]

i don't think we should try to convert measurements when the Bible is translated. it's the same issue i would raise with a 'farthing' in Matthew 10:29 -- that's just silly. the word is an assarion, it's an ancient unit of coin. as Nehemiah informed us, if it's important that we understand Ezekiel speaks of a reed, not a foot or a meter, then it's equally important that Matthew speaks of an assarion, not a farthing or a quarter. if God trusts us to sort out what a reed is when we read 'reed', we can sort out what an assarion or a drachma is too; my opinion, anyway.

So long as the translation makes clear what it is doing in the footnotes, there should be no problem. I think modern bibles try to convert to standard SI units, like meters, so that we can visualise what is being described. We think in meters not in reeds. MY NIV says penny and the footnote says assarion.

 

[JamOn]

The bible certainly wants us to believe that the return of Christ is 'at hand' and it seems that if we live with this expectation, then we are more likely to be pleasing to God. But, you are right. Christ may come in 10,000 years! This is why I don't think much about the end times. The main thing is to love God and to get closer to him. I am convinced the key to this is prayer. The more you pray, the more you want to. The more you want to, the more like Christ you become. God bless you.

good advice, prayer helps to keep in the moments

 

[JamOn]

i don't think we should try to convert measurements when the Bible is translated. it's the same issue i would raise with a 'farthing' in Matthew 10:29 -- that's just silly. the word is an assarion, it's an ancient unit of coin. as Nehemiah informed us, if it's important that we understand Ezekiel speaks of a reed, not a foot or a meter, then it's equally important that Matthew speaks of an assarion, not a farthing or a quarter. if God trusts us to sort out what a reed is when we read 'reed', we can sort out what an assarion or a drachma is too; my opinion, anyway.

I can agree with that, that’s why I wonder the reasoning behind all the different translations, maybe it’s bible publishers wanting to be different a little or copy right issues, but it’s odd the 101 bible books one can purchase it’s no wonder debates can get deep. not only on just this example about a temple but many other places among bibles are vastly different, it is what it is I guess.

 

[Scrobulous]

Before Jesus returns the temple has to be built. Everything is already in place including the red heifer. With modern building techniques the temple can be built (per the dimensions in Ezekiel) in less than a year. A major hurdle to handle first is to remove the mosque from the Dome of the Rock as this is where the temple will be placed.

This is all very well, provided you ignore the entire letter to the Hebrews. The temples were a shadow, Christ was the fulfilment. The temple signifies God living with his people. Now we are the temple, God lives in us. That is the new covenant. There is no need to build any more temples and if we do, it will be utterly irrelevant to God's purposes. The jews were judged in AD70 when the temple was destroyed. God's end time purpose for the jews is that they will acknowledge him as Messiah. God has made temple worship obsolete and the book of Hebrews has one message. Don't go back!
God has moved on. Why don't you?

 

[tourist]

This is all very well, provided you ignore the entire letter to the Hebrews. The temples were a shadow, Christ was the fulfilment. The temple signifies God living with his people. Now we are the temple, God lives in us. That is the new covenant. There is no need to build any more temples and if we do, it will be utterly irrelevant to God's purposes. The jews were judged in AD70 when the temple was destroyed. God's end time purpose for the jews is that they will acknowledge him as Messiah. God has made temple worship obsolete and the book of Hebrews has one message. Don't go back!
God has moved on. Why don't you?

I'm still waiting for Israel to sign a 7 year treaty with a country that will guarantee Israel's safety. If the temple as described in Ezekiel was not meant to be built why were the specific dimensions given?

 

[Scrobulous]

I'm still waiting for Israel to sign a 7 year treaty with a country that will guarantee Israel's safety. If the temple as described in Ezekiel was not meant to be built why were the specific dimensions given?

This question is discussed in the first few posts of this thread.
Ezekiel wrote during the exile. God's promise at this time was that he had not given up on his people, he would gather them from among the nations and they would return to the land he promised. This was hard for Jews to accept, so numerous promises were made by the prophets. You could ask, why would God return the exiles and rebuild the temple and restart the sacrificial system, if he knew that the jews would sin and the whole venture would fail and that he would have to send Christ anyway? Because God was giving Israel a real second chance!
He wanted the whole world to see why law could not work and that Christ and the Spirit is the only solution for mankind. None the less, he entered into the second temple period in good faith and as he said in Ezekiel 43:10-11. the plan and the rearrangement of the tribal boundaries were given 'to make them ashamed of their sins' and to inspire them to obedience. The temple was an ideal the Israelites did not achieve. So was the idea that Israel would be a light to the Gentiles and that the nations would flock to mount Zion. It didn't happen physically, it happened spiritually. Christ is fulfilling this prophecy through the Church.
Ezekiel's temple was a missed opportunity. There are interesting you tube videos showing how the temple integrated with the new arrangement of the tribal territories. They are fascinating, but they are not the point!
I suggest to you that the seventy sevens in Daniel do not have a 2000 year gap in them! This seventieth seven took place in the first century. Jesus' ministry took 3.5 years. He was cut off in the middle of the final seven year period. It took another 3.5 years before Peter started his ministry to the Gentiles in Acts 10. That was the coming of the kingdom of God and the fulfilment of God's purposes.
There is no end time rapture, tribulation or revelation of an antichrist. It all happened in the first century. The kingdom of God, the Church age will continue until all Christ's enemies are put under his feet. Christ's Church is going to win and then the last enemy, death will be conquered when Christ returns to judge the living and the dead.

 

[garee]

the unseen eternal has measure it’s not a residence of nothing.

The unseen eternal has a golden measure..(unknown) No need for a literal measurement if there is one. Plenty of rooms in that mansion

Yes not of nothing it resisdents as people the bride of Christ called a city, signified by the word number 144,000. as unknown of all redeemed from the beginning to the end. God does not number days or people. When it comes to his new creation. He will come on the last day .

No literal walls to measure or gates to count .they both represent the residents of the city according to the golden rule of faith.

 

[Chester]

Both these writers you have mentioned are FANTASIZING instead of exegeting.

The only way to explain the existence of Ezekiel's temple is to accept it as the FOURTH TEMPLE which is built under the authority of God and Christ and is for redeemed and restored Israel. It must be seen in the light of the complete prophecy (supported by all the other prophets).

1. There is absolutely no doubt that according to Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John, there will be a third temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation. It will be regarded by unbelieving Jews as the "temple of God," and it will be on the Temple Mount.

2. This temple will be desecrated by the Antichrist and used as a venue for him to proclaim that he is God. But before that he will make a deceptive covenant with the unbelieving Jews (who will believe that he is the true Messiah) to resume their temple sacrifices and oblations. There are already red heifers being raised in Israel. This temple will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation (or just before) and this is implied in the fact that it is an abomination to God because the Abomination of Desolation will sit in that temple.

3. Ezekiel's temple must await the second coming of Christ, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

EZEKIEL 37
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Here is a very clear and unambiguous reference to the temple which will be built within redeemed and restored Israel in the future. God's covenant of peace can be none other than the New Covenant (mentioned indirectly in chapter 36:24-27). "My sanctuary" and "my tabernacle" speak of that temple, and later on in the book of Ezekiel we see how the glory of the LORD enters into that temple (just as it did when Solomon finished building the first temple).

The book of Ezekiel does present an enigma to Christians, who know from the book of Hebrews that the temple and its sacrifices under the Old Covenant were abolished because of the finished work of Christ. The supernatural tearing of the veil within that temple occurred at the same time as Jesus cried "It is finished". But if we are wise we will leave the reconciliation of Ezekiel's temple with the New Covenant in God's hands and simply say that we will learn about it during the Millennium.

I was going to reply, but no need to duplicate what you wrote: I could not have said it any better! . . . I agree completely!

 

[Nehemiah6]

I was going to reply, but no need to duplicate what you wrote: I could not have said it any better! . . . I agree completely!

Thanks. It is really annoying when people try to put their own spin on Bible prophecies and make outlandish claims like N.T. Wright and that other chap have tried.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I suggest to you that the seventy sevens in Daniel do not have a 2000 year gap in them! This seventieth seven took place in the first century. Jesus' ministry took 3.5 years. He was cut off in the middle of the final seven year period. It took another 3.5 years before Peter started his ministry to the Gentiles in Acts 10. That was the coming of the kingdom of God and the fulfilment of God's purposes. There is no end time rapture, tribulation or revelation of an antichrist. It all happened in the first century.

This is COMPLETE NONSENSE but if that's what you choose to believe at least keep it to yourself.

 

[Scrobulous]

This is COMPLETE NONSENSE but if that's what you choose to believe at least keep it to yourself.

If I believe it to be true, why keep it to myself?

 

[Chris1975]

I have always read this to mean a literal temple that will be built during the millennial reign of Christ (1000 years) on Earth, post the AntiChrist and his false prophet being thrown alive into the lake of fire.

 

[JamOn]

The unseen eternal has a golden measure..(unknown) No need for a literal measurement if there is one. Plenty of rooms in that mansion

Yes not of nothing it resisdents as people the bride of Christ called a city, signified by the word number 144,000. as unknown of all redeemed from the beginning to the end. God does not number days or people. When it comes to his new creation. He will come on the last day .

No literal walls to measure or gates to count .they both represent the residents of the city according to the golden rule of faith.

You make a good point, reading Isaiah 60 and especially :14 it appears to be not about a physical building.

Isaiah 60:14
The sons of your oppressors will come and bow down to you; all who reviled you will fall facedown at your feet and call you the City of the LORD, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

 

[Scrobulous]

I have always read this to mean a literal temple that will be built during the millennial reign of Christ (1000 years) on Earth, post the AntiChrist and his false prophet being thrown alive into the lake of fire.

Then you are faced with certain difficulties. Why would a temple be built if Christ is already reigning at the right hand of the Father and the temple is a symbol for God’s presence with his people? Since Christ’s ascension He has been reigning and we, the church together with God are the temple. This is why there is no temple in the heavenly city. Hebrews explains clearly that Christ has put away all sacrifice, since His sacrifice is the substance and temple sacrifices the shadow. Ezekiel’s temple describes the provision for the sacrifice of animals. This doesn’t make sense now that Christ has come. Ezekiel’s temple was a blueprint for the second temple. It was never built. Israel fell short and the second temple was a compromise.

So, what does the 1000 year reign of Christ mean? It is a symbol for the church age. The 1000 years is not literal any more than the horns on the beast are literal. Satan is bound in the church age. Jesus said that the prince of this world is now condemned. Of course the Church age does not appear the glorious thing that the bible says it is, but we are not living in spiritual reality. According to the bible, we are victorious now and the kingdom of God is growing and will finally put all Christ’s enemies under His feet. Christ will not return to rescue a failing church. He will return to a victorious church and He will return to deal with the last enemy. Death will be destroyed by the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Then you are faced with certain difficulties. Why would a temple be built if Christ is already reigning at the right hand of the Father and the temple is a symbol for God’s presence with his people?

1. Christ is SEATED at the right hand of God the Father, but He is not reigning on earth at the present. That will happen during the Millennium and beyond.

2. The temple is NOT merely a symbol for God's presence with His people, but a functioning temple as shown in Ezekiel. In any event, it is God who decides that their will be a fourth temple on earth -- a literal, visible, tangible, functioning temple.

 

[Scrobulous]

1. Christ is SEATED at the right hand of God the Father, but He is not reigning on earth at the present. That will happen during the Millennium and beyond.

2. The temple is NOT merely a symbol for God's presence with His people, but a functioning temple as shown in Ezekiel. In any event, it is God who decides that their will be a fourth temple on earth -- a literal, visible, tangible, functioning temple.

1) Well, you may think Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father doing a crossword, but I suggest to you that he is reigning now. Such a view is supported in 1 Cor 15: 25 'He must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet' and this started when he sat down i.e. at the ascension. Ephesisans 1:20-21 says he is seated 'above all rule and authority ...not only in the present age, but in the one to come' which suggests he is reigning in the present age.

2) Certainly the tabernacle and the two temples were physical temples and real animal sacrifices were offered. Ezekiel's temple too was envisaged as a temple offering animal sacrifices, but why, after the revelation and sacrifice of Christ, you should imagine that God would revert to a physical temple at some time in the future, when he has already sent Christ to make a final, once and for all atonement, is most odd. What do you think the book of Hebrews is all about? Why will there be no temple in the heavenly city? Because the bible tells us what a temple really means. The temple points to a greater reality. Christ brought a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. This is what caught the jews out. They expected Christ to institute physical rule, victory over Rome, but Jesus established a spiritual kingdom.

The book of revelation is a book of symbols. The meaning of the symbols is established in the old testament and revealed in the light of Christ. The book is not a linear series of events as in seals, then trumpets, then bowls. They are all going on at the same time. They are snapshots taken from different angles showing different aspects of our present age. At least that is how I see it and I am by no means alone. The dispensational view that you believe in is very modern. I don't think it will stand the test of time.