What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?
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^ A few things to bear in mind about that:
--the prophecy is concerning "[70 Wks] are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, and upon THY [Daniel's] holy city..."
--the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total] concluded on Palm Sunday, when Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing ["thy King cometh UNTO THEE" (re: "Jerusalem"/THE CITY)], and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing [(when... He beheld "THE CITY," and wept over it) "If THOU hadst known, even THOU, at least in this THY day, the things which belong unto THY peace! BUT NOW they are hid from THINE eyes. For the days shall come upon THEE, that THINE enemies shall cast a trench about THEE, and compass about THEE [Lk21:23,20; Matt22:7], and keep THEE in on every side, And shall lay THEE even with the ground, and THY children within THEE; and they shall not leave in THEE one stone upon another; because THOU knewest not the time of THY visitation."]
--"And AFTER the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total], shall Messiah BE CUT OFF and HAVE NOTHING" [see the "CUT OFF" wording in: (see below) ]
[quoting old post]
"For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off [H3772] from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” " -- Jeremiah 11:19
https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/11-19.htm
[similar to the wording in Isaiah 53:7 which most see as corresponding with Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10, Jesus' arrest / @ His trials that very week following the conclusion of the 69 Weeks total (Palm Sunday)... See also Zech14:2 there used with a negative, "not be cut off [from the city]"]
[notes: I know that Jer11:19 likely refers to Jeremiah the prophet, but I think is also a prophecy concerning Jesus; just like Psalm 72 ("the king chapter") pertains to both Solomon and Jesus; and it's commonly believed that in such contexts ^ , the phrase "the city" pertains to "Jerusalem" and the phrase "the land" (like in Jer11:19 above) pertains specifically to "Israel"; and this would correspond to the phrase in Dan9:26a "shall be cut off [/'but not for himself'; or, 'and have nothing' as some translations have it]"... this makes sense in view of both the prophecy of Dan9:24 which is concerning "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] HOLY CITY" and of His "be cut off," in view of these other passages (relating, as I see it)]
Acts 8:31-35 -
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [<--perhaps TWO parts here in this verse; Part A and Part B, if you will]
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[again, see also Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10 (re: Jesus' arrest / @ His trials)]
____________
John 11:45-55 -
The Plot to Kill Jesus
(Matthew 26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-6)
45 Therefore [re: Lazarus having been raised from the dead] many of the Jews having come to Mary, and having seen what He did, believed in Him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.
47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and were saying, “What are we to do? For this man does many signs. 48 If we shall let Him alone like this, all will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and will take away both our place and nation.” https://biblehub.com/text/john/11-48.htm
49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest the same year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is profitable for you that one man should die for the people, and the whole nation should not perish.”
51 Now he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also that children of God, those having been scattered, He might gather together into one.
[note: Eph1:10 does not refer to "in this present age [singular]" like the rest of the epistle does]
53 So from that day, they took counsel together that they might kill Him. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked publicly among the Jews, but went away from there into the region near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim. And there He stayed with the disciples.
55 Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the region before the Passover, so that they might purify themselves.
[continued in next post]
--the prophecy is concerning "[70 Wks] are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, and upon THY [Daniel's] holy city..."
--the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total] concluded on Palm Sunday, when Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing ["thy King cometh UNTO THEE" (re: "Jerusalem"/THE CITY)], and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing [(when... He beheld "THE CITY," and wept over it) "If THOU hadst known, even THOU, at least in this THY day, the things which belong unto THY peace! BUT NOW they are hid from THINE eyes. For the days shall come upon THEE, that THINE enemies shall cast a trench about THEE, and compass about THEE [Lk21:23,20; Matt22:7], and keep THEE in on every side, And shall lay THEE even with the ground, and THY children within THEE; and they shall not leave in THEE one stone upon another; because THOU knewest not the time of THY visitation."]
--"And AFTER the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total], shall Messiah BE CUT OFF and HAVE NOTHING" [see the "CUT OFF" wording in: (see below) ]
[quoting old post]
"For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off [H3772] from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” " -- Jeremiah 11:19
https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/11-19.htm
[similar to the wording in Isaiah 53:7 which most see as corresponding with Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10, Jesus' arrest / @ His trials that very week following the conclusion of the 69 Weeks total (Palm Sunday)... See also Zech14:2 there used with a negative, "not be cut off [from the city]"]
[notes: I know that Jer11:19 likely refers to Jeremiah the prophet, but I think is also a prophecy concerning Jesus; just like Psalm 72 ("the king chapter") pertains to both Solomon and Jesus; and it's commonly believed that in such contexts ^ , the phrase "the city" pertains to "Jerusalem" and the phrase "the land" (like in Jer11:19 above) pertains specifically to "Israel"; and this would correspond to the phrase in Dan9:26a "shall be cut off [/'but not for himself'; or, 'and have nothing' as some translations have it]"... this makes sense in view of both the prophecy of Dan9:24 which is concerning "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] HOLY CITY" and of His "be cut off," in view of these other passages (relating, as I see it)]
Acts 8:31-35 -
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [<--perhaps TWO parts here in this verse; Part A and Part B, if you will]
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[again, see also Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10 (re: Jesus' arrest / @ His trials)]
____________
John 11:45-55 -
The Plot to Kill Jesus
(Matthew 26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-6)
45 Therefore [re: Lazarus having been raised from the dead] many of the Jews having come to Mary, and having seen what He did, believed in Him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.
47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and were saying, “What are we to do? For this man does many signs. 48 If we shall let Him alone like this, all will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and will take away both our place and nation.” https://biblehub.com/text/john/11-48.htm
49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest the same year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is profitable for you that one man should die for the people, and the whole nation should not perish.”
51 Now he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also that children of God, those having been scattered, He might gather together into one.
[note: Eph1:10 does not refer to "in this present age [singular]" like the rest of the epistle does]
53 So from that day, they took counsel together that they might kill Him. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked publicly among the Jews, but went away from there into the region near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim. And there He stayed with the disciples.
55 Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the region before the Passover, so that they might purify themselves.
[continued in next post]
[continued from previous post]
[quoting Wm Kelly]
"The chief priests and the Pharisees are immediately on the alert. They assemble a council; they wonder at their own inactivity in presence of the many signs done by Jesus; they fear that, if left alone, He may become universally acceptable, and that they may provoke the Romans to destroy them, Church and State, as men now say. How affecting to see the power of Satan blinding those most who take the highest place in zeal for God after the flesh! It was their desperately wicked purpose to put Him to death-a purpose as desperately effected, which led to the cross, in which He did become the attractive centre to men of every class and nation and moral condition; and it was their guilt in this especially, though not this alone, which drew on them the wrath of "the king," who sent his forces, destroyed those murderers, and burnt their city [Matt22:7 (Lk19:41-44 said on Palm Sunday), and Lk21:23,20]. All righteous blood came upon them, and their house is left desolate unto this day, and this, too, by the dreaded hand of the Romans, whom they professed to propitiate by the death of Jesus. Such is the way and end of unbelief."
--William Kelly, Commentary on John 11 [source: Bible Hub; bold and bracket mine]
[end quoting Wm Kelly]
____________
Notice the phrase "the land of the living" in Jer11:19 ( in that post above ^ )... Which phrase is found 7x in Ezekiel (notice the CONTEXT of the first one) -
Ezekiel 26:20 -
"When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;"
[see context from vv.2-3 - "2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste: 3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."]
Ezekiel 32:23 -
"Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:24 -
"There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit."
Ezekiel 32:25 -
"They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain."
Ezekiel 32:26 -
"There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:27 -
"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:32 -
"For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God."
[quoting Wm Kelly]
"The chief priests and the Pharisees are immediately on the alert. They assemble a council; they wonder at their own inactivity in presence of the many signs done by Jesus; they fear that, if left alone, He may become universally acceptable, and that they may provoke the Romans to destroy them, Church and State, as men now say. How affecting to see the power of Satan blinding those most who take the highest place in zeal for God after the flesh! It was their desperately wicked purpose to put Him to death-a purpose as desperately effected, which led to the cross, in which He did become the attractive centre to men of every class and nation and moral condition; and it was their guilt in this especially, though not this alone, which drew on them the wrath of "the king," who sent his forces, destroyed those murderers, and burnt their city [Matt22:7 (Lk19:41-44 said on Palm Sunday), and Lk21:23,20]. All righteous blood came upon them, and their house is left desolate unto this day, and this, too, by the dreaded hand of the Romans, whom they professed to propitiate by the death of Jesus. Such is the way and end of unbelief."
--William Kelly, Commentary on John 11 [source: Bible Hub; bold and bracket mine]
[end quoting Wm Kelly]
____________
Notice the phrase "the land of the living" in Jer11:19 ( in that post above ^ )... Which phrase is found 7x in Ezekiel (notice the CONTEXT of the first one) -
Ezekiel 26:20 -
"When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;"
[see context from vv.2-3 - "2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste: 3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."]
Ezekiel 32:23 -
"Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:24 -
"There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit."
Ezekiel 32:25 -
"They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain."
Ezekiel 32:26 -
"There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:27 -
"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:32 -
"For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God."
so WHO is our Father? The Great I AM! The 1st the last. Or as He says "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. " He is a faith God. We know "Rapture" means "Caught up". We have all heard of pre mid post tribulation. And all 3 "seem" to be able to backup what they believe with verses. For me I can't find a verse that simple says WHEN this will happen.I have heard/read about that 18** which some claim thats when "pre-trib" started. I have also heard men of God say "who has read the bible can came away with "pre-trib". The argument we heard it from someone else for why some believe "pre-trib". In my searching i read about 300-400ad a man that wrote hymns and preached about being caughtup before the great tribulation. And others before 300-400ad also have. This does not prove "pre-trib" is right just it was taught. And what I love is what Paul said about it. "We that remain".
Who is we?
Jesus went back to make us a home yes? Did Christ lie to them? He said.. if it was not so I would tell you. He said He will come back and get them so WHERE (Where is He?) He is they will be. So for me I always see that as Christ only new that after He died rose...oh PRAISE GOD! GLORY TO JESUS! That nothing had to happen for Him to come back and get us. They asked about that time are you going to rule? Of those times and seasons ONLY the Father knows.I have a awesome great wonderful joy of every moment I have been given to be watching always looking up (so to speak) for my friend, my best friend, my savior my GOD. Always thinking about Him. I will always be ready. And I try to make sure its written. And I found I was never promised tomorrow. To prepare (song Bryan Duncan "come Holy Spirit") is wise but I was given right now. Some have more faith in a day they were never promised. So me? I watch and ready now. Always watching. I will never miss Him.
I would have to ADD to His word to say PRE -TRIB is the only way. "What that verse really means"? Yeah..can't do that. And I always wonder WHY can't Satan do all the things he did BEFORE Christ? Since Christ came...seems SOMETHING has more power then him and only till that is taken out of the way.. then and only then does the lawless come out in the open and do lying wonders. What he can not do right now. Why? Greater is HE that is in YOU.. thats a GOD in you.. the ONLY GOD! Behold I give you all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
This is what I personally believe. And I am NOT right.. I am always saying Father if I am wrong change me 1st. For only HE is right. In this I look for fear worry doubt.. I get none. I get a peace.. a joy. Jesus/Yeshua is SO very very real.
Sure, our generation is bad and judgment is coming, like it came to Nazi Germany. God will only put up with it so long. Notice you left out 50 million abortions since the 70s. Bad stuff indeed. But compare it to 30-70 AD generation:
1. They murdered the Son of God.
2. They murdered many of His disciples.
3. They declared they have no god but Caesar.
4. They robbed from the poor.
5. They got rich off of religion.
6. They offered daily sacrifices to Caesar in God's house.
7. They dressed as woman and had gay sex in the temple.
8. They had drunken orgies in the temple drinking wine from the holy golden temple cups.
9. They made sport out of killing their fellow Jews with swords.
10. They robbed the starving of their food and burned their food supply.
11. They sent out false prophets and Messiahs to keep the people in line.
12. They ate their own babies for food and took the food out of the mouths of the people then killed them
13. They killed their own priests then dressed as them and took over the temple.
14. Their actions caused the death of 600,000 of their countrymen BEFORE Titus broke through the walls.
15. They hid gold in the bodies of the dead then threw them over the wall, then tried to retrieve it before the siege wall was completed.
I'd lean towards them being slightly worse considering they were supposed to be God's chosen people.
Within 40 earth years of Christ's victorious return to heaven, war broke out in heaven per Dan 7 and 12. Do you think Christ would return and put up with Satan being with Him for 2,000+ years? Would you? As I mentioned, it was so bad that it was visible from earth. Satan was then "bound" for 1,000 years (a long period of time). He was prohibited from deceiving the nations. Deceiving them from what? We aren't told but can guess. Before he was bound he influenced the actions of the wicked leading up to the total destruction of the Jewish nation.
The "every knee will bow" occurred in Hades when Christ freed the captive in 66 AD. Hades is where you would find "those who pierced Him." The high priest, Caiaphas died in 41 AD so he wasn't alive and neither was Pilate and neither was Judas nor any of the others responsible. Stick with the text.
"The Lord's Day" is a day of judgment. There were several in the OT and there was another in 70 AD when God used Rome to utterly and completely destroy the wicked, unbelieving of Israel. 1.1 million out of 1.2 million or 93% of the population of the city died in the most horrific ways. It was the worst tribulation any nation had ever endured, nor will ever endure again.
What are you talking about concerning Satan and his angels being here giving birth to giants? Where is that written?
What does 1948 have to do with anything? There is no prophesy of Israel being re-established as a nation in our era. It happened, sure, but they are still largely a disbelieving nation. Maybe not at the beginning but they are mostly atheist now. Heck, they have religious fanatics still looking for the Messiah wanting to rebuild a temple God had destroyed.
1. They murdered the Son of God.
2. They murdered many of His disciples.
3. They declared they have no god but Caesar.
4. They robbed from the poor.
5. They got rich off of religion.
6. They offered daily sacrifices to Caesar in God's house.
7. They dressed as woman and had gay sex in the temple.
8. They had drunken orgies in the temple drinking wine from the holy golden temple cups.
9. They made sport out of killing their fellow Jews with swords.
10. They robbed the starving of their food and burned their food supply.
11. They sent out false prophets and Messiahs to keep the people in line.
12. They ate their own babies for food and took the food out of the mouths of the people then killed them
13. They killed their own priests then dressed as them and took over the temple.
14. Their actions caused the death of 600,000 of their countrymen BEFORE Titus broke through the walls.
15. They hid gold in the bodies of the dead then threw them over the wall, then tried to retrieve it before the siege wall was completed.
I'd lean towards them being slightly worse considering they were supposed to be God's chosen people.
Within 40 earth years of Christ's victorious return to heaven, war broke out in heaven per Dan 7 and 12. Do you think Christ would return and put up with Satan being with Him for 2,000+ years? Would you? As I mentioned, it was so bad that it was visible from earth. Satan was then "bound" for 1,000 years (a long period of time). He was prohibited from deceiving the nations. Deceiving them from what? We aren't told but can guess. Before he was bound he influenced the actions of the wicked leading up to the total destruction of the Jewish nation.
The "every knee will bow" occurred in Hades when Christ freed the captive in 66 AD. Hades is where you would find "those who pierced Him." The high priest, Caiaphas died in 41 AD so he wasn't alive and neither was Pilate and neither was Judas nor any of the others responsible. Stick with the text.
"The Lord's Day" is a day of judgment. There were several in the OT and there was another in 70 AD when God used Rome to utterly and completely destroy the wicked, unbelieving of Israel. 1.1 million out of 1.2 million or 93% of the population of the city died in the most horrific ways. It was the worst tribulation any nation had ever endured, nor will ever endure again.
What are you talking about concerning Satan and his angels being here giving birth to giants? Where is that written?
What does 1948 have to do with anything? There is no prophesy of Israel being re-established as a nation in our era. It happened, sure, but they are still largely a disbelieving nation. Maybe not at the beginning but they are mostly atheist now. Heck, they have religious fanatics still looking for the Messiah wanting to rebuild a temple God had destroyed.
Hi Gary,
Let start with this post I made on another thread. Let's compare scripture to scripture. The presence of God is so bright and glorious that He had to come riding His Glory Cloud otherwise all on earth would die. This dark cloud darkened the sky. We saw this 4 times in the OT and once in the NT. Each time God used a foreign army to carry out His judgment. Please see the below and I'll address the rest of your question next...
According to the Midrash, the Sun represents the King, the Moon represents the Sanhedrin and the Stars represent Rabbis.
In Matthew 24:29, the sun and moon darken and the stars fall from the sky. These astral omens are very similar to the heavenly signs said to accompany the fall of Judah in the sixth century B.C. (Jeremiah 4:23-26), the fall of Egypt in the sixth century B.C. (Ezekiel 32:7-9), the fall of Babylon in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 13:9-13), and the fall of Edom in the sixth century B.C. (Isaiah 34:4-5). And just as various heavenly omens marked a great slaughter at the fall of Judah, Egypt, Babylon and Edom in the sixth century B.C., the same thing is expected to occur at the fall of Jerusalem and Israel at the end of the age in 70 AD.
The fall of each of these cities in the 6th century BC as described mirrors the language of Mat 24 and Rev.
Jer 4 Destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon:
13 “Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!” 14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from wickedness, That you may be saved. 27 For thus says the Lord: “The whole land shall be desolate; Yet I will not make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn, And the heavens above be black, Because I have spoken.
Ezk 32 Destruction of Egypt:
2 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him...3 ‘Thus says the Lord God: "...And cause to settle on you all the birds of the heavens. And with you I will fill the beasts of the whole earth...7 When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, And the moon shall not give her light.
Isa 13 Fall of Babylon:
The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw...9 Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine. 11 “I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.
Isa 34 Fall of Edom:
4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom,
And on the people of My curse, for judgment. 6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood...
Thus there have been multiple "Days of the Lord" whereby He would intervene with divine judgment using foreign armies to execute His judgment. In each case, the invading armies were pagan. The language was apocalyptic containing cosmetic disturbances of seemingly world-ending in magnitude. Therefore should we expect Jesus to use similar language when He discusses the imminent fall of Jerusalem which happened in 70AD?
Mat 24 Fall of Jerusalem:
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
In each of these destructive judgments of wicked cities, the language is the same. The Presence of God and the Lamb in the case of 70 AD is common to each.
What was the sign of the Son of Man you ask, Gary? Josephus records it in War 6-5-3.
"Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year."
Thus, the sign of the Son of Man was a sword shaped star and a comet. A comet had always been a bad omen of pending disaster in ancient times. Now look at Jesus' own words.
Mat 10:23 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Heb 12:8 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rev 1:16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
Rev 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword
Rev 2:16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.
Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Remember, a very unique and bright star preceded Christ first visit to earth prompting the journey of the 3 wise men.
Mat 2:
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
Notice it was a STAR that was HIS???? Thus, we should expect to see another unique and unmistakable star when He returned to that generation, right?? We did and Josephus records it. He, Josephus goes on to say, "So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them."
"Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year."
Thus, the sign of the Son of Man was a sword shaped star and a comet. A comet had always been a bad omen of pending disaster in ancient times. Now look at Jesus' own words.
Mat 10:23 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Heb 12:8 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rev 1:16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
Rev 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword
Rev 2:16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.
Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Remember, a very unique and bright star preceded Christ first visit to earth prompting the journey of the 3 wise men.
Mat 2:
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
Notice it was a STAR that was HIS???? Thus, we should expect to see another unique and unmistakable star when He returned to that generation, right?? We did and Josephus records it. He, Josephus goes on to say, "So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them."
Why wont any of you Rapturist answer my question about Ezek.37?
EZEKIEL 37
[3] And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. [4] Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. [5] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I WILL CAUSE BREATH TO ENTER INTO YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE: [6] AND I WILL LAY SINEWS UPON YOU, AND WILL BRING UP FLESH UPON YOU, AND COVER YOU WITH SKIN, AND PUT BREATH IN YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the BREATH CAME INTO THEM, AND THEY LIVED, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. [11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. [12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL. [13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I HAVE OPENED YOUR GRAVES, O MY PEOPLE, AND BROUGHT YOU UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and YE SHALL LIVE, AND I SHALL PLACE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Theres ONLY 2 general resurrections to come. The 1Cor.15 event and the great white throne event. Must you claim there is no resurrection found in Ezek.37 for your pre-trib rapture to be real. If you can find a resurrection in Ezek.37 does your pre-trib rapture go down the drain? Theres the question i ask. Only requires a yes or no. Is there a resurrection found in Ezek.37?
EZEKIEL 37
[3] And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. [4] Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. [5] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I WILL CAUSE BREATH TO ENTER INTO YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE: [6] AND I WILL LAY SINEWS UPON YOU, AND WILL BRING UP FLESH UPON YOU, AND COVER YOU WITH SKIN, AND PUT BREATH IN YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the BREATH CAME INTO THEM, AND THEY LIVED, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. [11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. [12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL. [13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I HAVE OPENED YOUR GRAVES, O MY PEOPLE, AND BROUGHT YOU UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and YE SHALL LIVE, AND I SHALL PLACE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Theres ONLY 2 general resurrections to come. The 1Cor.15 event and the great white throne event. Must you claim there is no resurrection found in Ezek.37 for your pre-trib rapture to be real. If you can find a resurrection in Ezek.37 does your pre-trib rapture go down the drain? Theres the question i ask. Only requires a yes or no. Is there a resurrection found in Ezek.37?
Are you telling me God did not use a "generation" pre approved of by YOU? Next time the two of you chat, let Him know that He was only to choose between those two and that the choosing of the 120 year (or the 1000 year generation like he used in the beginning) is UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU. Let me know how that goes.
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
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I differ with you on this.
I do believe there are "time-related-prophecies" concerning Israel (coming into play in our era).
Here's how I'm seeing that:
--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]
TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]
= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and
--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]
TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]
= 2520y (ditto the above)
--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]
...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones):
--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and
--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and
--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],
"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."
So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]
I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])
[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is identified itself as the "vineyard")]
I think that is why Ezekiel 37 (the "dry bones prophecy" concerning Israel) is SHOWN as taking place IN STAGES... it's not really till the Ezekiel 38-39 "war" takes place (which I've stated I believe takes place as a PART of the "2nd SEAL WARS" in the early part of the future trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture]) that the 39:7 thing takes place (reflective of the Genesis 45:1[6] thing), which says, "SO [/in this way] will *I MAKE* MY HOLY NAME KNOWN in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" [whereas presently they are still in the state of "Lo Ammi"--"NOT MY PEOPLE"])
And yet we see two verses/passages that speak of a "future" time [time-period] where something is called "the temple of God"
(and in Rev11:1 it is made CLEAR that that item ["the temple of God"] is completely distinct from "THEM that worship THEREIN"; and I've mentioned before that wherever *WE* are referred to as "temple" [by Paul], he never uses the definite article ["the"]… and I've mentioned also the Heb9:8-9 "parable" which says it is in regard to "for the present time" and it refers in the parable to "[while] the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness] yet having A STANDING [stasin/stasis]…" [we are awaiting our "apo stasis"--"a standing away from [a previous standing]" or "[THE] DEPARTURE" [/relocation! ]… after which, Israel will come into play again as "MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" in the trib years)
I do believe there are "time-related-prophecies" concerning Israel (coming into play in our era).
Here's how I'm seeing that:
--FROM 537bc [the "Return to Israel" from captivity]
TO 1948ad [Nation of Israel]
= 2520y (factored in 360 day years, as "time-prophecies" relating to Israel are often factored); and
--FROM 518bc [the "Temple Rebuilding"]
TO 1967ad [Jerusalem Regained (apart from which, there can be no temple)]
= 2520y (ditto the above)
--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]
...the equation (in the above) being, "Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years" (2520 years of 360-day years, in the above-mentioned ones):
--Ezekiel 4 is 430 yrs, 360 yrs of which were "remaining"; and
--[minus] 2Chronicles 36:21, "until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years [70 yrs]"; and
--[times] Leviticus 26 4x says (basically) [re: Israel],
"[but if not, then]... I will punish you seven times more for your sins."
So (when examined), we see [360y (remained) x 7 = 2520y]
I think this has to be more than "coincidence" (and acknowledging the stages shown to be expected in the Ezekiel 37 chpt ["dry bones prophecy" regarding Israel])
[caveat: I've posted before that I see Scripture referring to "the fig tree" as something DISTINCT from "Israel" (which according to Isa5:7 "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house OF ISRAEL"... and according to the parable in Lk13:6 "[a certain man] had A FIG TREE planted IN his VINEYARD"--showing there to be two DISTINCT items, though somewhat in relation to each other, that are NOT IDENTICAL... so I'm not really convinced that "the fig tree parable" in Matt24:32-34/Mk13:28-30/Lk21:29-32 speaks specifically of "Israel," but more like something associated with Israel (which is identified itself as the "vineyard")]
I think that is why Ezekiel 37 (the "dry bones prophecy" concerning Israel) is SHOWN as taking place IN STAGES... it's not really till the Ezekiel 38-39 "war" takes place (which I've stated I believe takes place as a PART of the "2nd SEAL WARS" in the early part of the future trib years [FOLLOWING our Rapture]) that the 39:7 thing takes place (reflective of the Genesis 45:1[6] thing), which says, "SO [/in this way] will *I MAKE* MY HOLY NAME KNOWN in the midst of MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" [whereas presently they are still in the state of "Lo Ammi"--"NOT MY PEOPLE"])
And yet we see two verses/passages that speak of a "future" time [time-period] where something is called "the temple of God"
(and in Rev11:1 it is made CLEAR that that item ["the temple of God"] is completely distinct from "THEM that worship THEREIN"; and I've mentioned before that wherever *WE* are referred to as "temple" [by Paul], he never uses the definite article ["the"]… and I've mentioned also the Heb9:8-9 "parable" which says it is in regard to "for the present time" and it refers in the parable to "[while] the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness] yet having A STANDING [stasin/stasis]…" [we are awaiting our "apo stasis"--"a standing away from [a previous standing]" or "[THE] DEPARTURE" [/relocation!
]… after which, Israel will come into play again as "MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" in the trib years)Jeremiah 4:1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.
Jeremiah 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
Jeremiah 4:3 For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Jeremiah 4:5 Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
Jeremiah 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
Jeremiah 4:7 The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
Jeremiah 4:8 For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the LORD is not turned back from us.
Jeremiah 4:9 And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the LORD, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.
Jeremiah 4:10 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
Jeremiah 4:11 At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
Jeremiah 4:12 Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
Jeremiah 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
Jeremiah 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
Jeremiah 4:15 For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
Jeremiah 4:16 Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.
Jeremiah 4:17 As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 4:18 Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.
Jeremiah 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
Jeremiah 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate yet will I not make a full end.
Seriously, you feel this is the destruction of Jerusalem?.
Jeremiah 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
Jeremiah 4:3 For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Jeremiah 4:5 Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
Jeremiah 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
Jeremiah 4:7 The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
Jeremiah 4:8 For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the LORD is not turned back from us.
Jeremiah 4:9 And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the LORD, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.
Jeremiah 4:10 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
Jeremiah 4:11 At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
Jeremiah 4:12 Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
Jeremiah 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
Jeremiah 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
Jeremiah 4:15 For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
Jeremiah 4:16 Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.
Jeremiah 4:17 As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 4:18 Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.
Jeremiah 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
Jeremiah 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate yet will I not make a full end.
Seriously, you feel this is the destruction of Jerusalem?.
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^ EDIT to add for clarification to my Post #891:
what I put in that post (re: the "figures"/"time-prophecies") is NOT the same thing that "Historicist" William Miller did in his "year-for-a-day/day-for-a-year principle" (of factoring the "2300" number in Dan8:13, for example, where he put "2300 YEARS" as the conversion of what he perceived it saying "2300 DAYS" in that text [and I don't believe it even USES the word "DAYS" in that text, but that's a separate point altogether])
what I put in that post (re: the "figures"/"time-prophecies") is NOT the same thing that "Historicist" William Miller did in his "year-for-a-day/day-for-a-year principle" (of factoring the "2300" number in Dan8:13, for example, where he put "2300 YEARS" as the conversion of what he perceived it saying "2300 DAYS" in that text [and I don't believe it even USES the word "DAYS" in that text, but that's a separate point altogether])
You are hysterical. The generation He was talking about was the one He was in!!! He wasn't talking about some future generation. Where does He say, "thousands of years from now there will be a wicked generation and all this pertains to them?"
Look back one chapter to Mat 23. Are you able to pick up on who He is talking to and to whom things will happen? Or do you think He will punish our generation for the evil of those in His day???
34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Our generation isn't killing prophets and wise men, at least not in this country. Our generation had nothing to do with murdering these OT people.
I provided the scripture and the explanation for it about 1/3 the way down in my post, where I had started with the words "...the equation (in the above) being..."
...so check out that part and see "where" I got it from (for I "explain" it there).
I can try to elaborate if you still need me to, after you read what I'd already put. Thx.
...so check out that part and see "where" I got it from (for I "explain" it there).
I can try to elaborate if you still need me to, after you read what I'd already put. Thx.
To kill the prophets is to kills the prophecy . . as in all things written in the law and the prophets .Signified by Moses and Elias .To kill prophecy it is to silence the gospel causing a famine for hearing the word of prophecy. God's word. .
The thousand years according to that signified language (the language of revelation) represents a unknown. Trying to literalize the source of faith (the unseen) It destroys the meaning of the rest of the parable. The word thousand years is used to represent a unknow . The word thousand tied in with others, like food or mountains or love also represents a unknow mystery revealed in the parable.
Mankind make the same mistake with the parable of the rich man missing the unseen spiritual understanding, purposely hid from those who have no faith as that which is needed to understand.
The thousand years according to that signified language (the language of revelation) represents a unknown. Trying to literalize the source of faith (the unseen) It destroys the meaning of the rest of the parable. The word thousand years is used to represent a unknow . The word thousand tied in with others, like food or mountains or love also represents a unknow mystery revealed in the parable.
Mankind make the same mistake with the parable of the rich man missing the unseen spiritual understanding, purposely hid from those who have no faith as that which is needed to understand.
That would be your choice. You may "laugh out loud" all you want, but it still doesn't change the truth in the Word of God.
Yes, I do believe it is about "was" and not about "is" just as I believe in "is to come" because I believe people are willingly ignorant of and BY THEIR VERY OWN WORKS PROVE
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, PERISHED
A good example of Perished, wouldn't you say? Or what is it you would need to add to
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate yet will I not make a full end.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
The day of the Lord does not come as a thief in the night to all, only upon those who have not studied to show themselves approved.
As a watchman, the only thing I am responsible for it to put forth GODS TRUTH, keeping the blood off my hands. Now I've given it to you. What happens past that? It's your choice.
Gods Judgement is going to start with those who "teach" and we, as in YOU AND I, are not only held responsible for ourselves, but all those we reach. Best be praying you are teaching HIS TRUTH and not some "false doctrine". I am good with that. I am ready to be held responsible for all that I put forth as THE WORD OF GOD as to truth of it. I feel that being in the flesh for a hundred years is already way to long to be away from God, (physically) and the thought of hearing "I never knew you" with the addition of another 1000 yrs is the most terrifying thought I ever have.
You may do as you like and jump from one verse in one place to another in another place and make it fit into what ever meaning you would like, but as for me I am only seeking what the Word of God is saying, not trying to make the Word of God fit into what I think it should say therefore free to let God lead me where He will.
Your mocking does nothing but strengthen my faith as to the truth of Gods Word.