Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

Wansvic · Sep 11, 2019

You rarely respond to my posts with anything other than attacks. Concerning water baptism, mainstream Christianity follows a man-made tradition whether they choose to believe it or not. This concept is not my interpretation but is a fact clearly documented within the pages of bible.

Your comment about snaring those unfamiliar with the Bible is interesting considering every point I have made concerning the use of Jesus' name is backed up by scripture. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

If you can provide a bible record that shows people being water baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost then I will accept it. Also, if you can give BIBLICAL proof that water baptism is only done as a public display I will accept that as well. These concepts are echoed across the globe without anything from the bible to substantiate the claims. Again, sadly people are like sheep they just follow those in front of them.

I share the truth in hopes that upon seeing what is actually in the Word people will be obedient to God by responding to it.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

Wansvic · Sep 11, 2019

This is a great teaching concerning water baptism in Jesus' name.

Absolutely · Sep 11, 2019

Wansvic said:

You rarely respond to my posts with anything other than attacks. Concerning water baptism, mainstream Christianity follows a man-made tradition whether they choose to believe it or not. This concept is not my interpretation but is a fact clearly documented within the pages of bible.

Your comment about snaring those unfamiliar with the Bible is interesting considering every point I have made concerning the use of Jesus' name is backed up by scripture. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

If you can provide a bible record that shows people being water baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost then I will accept it. Also, if you can give BIBLICAL proof that water baptism is only done as a public display I will accept that as well. These concepts are echoed across the globe without anything from the bible to substantiate the claims. Again, sadly people are like sheep they just follow those in front of them.

I share the truth in hopes that upon seeing what is actually in the Word people will be obedient to God by responding to it.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

By the same token where is anyone rebuked,or corrected for improper baptism?

Or an example of salvation lost by wrong or no baptism?

Wansvic · Sep 11, 2019

Absolutely said:

There is nothing mentioned about administering water baptism in the wrong way because it was always done in Jesus' name as seen in the Word.

Jesus tells us that we will be judged by what is in the Word. (John 12:48) The Word commands everyone to be obedient to belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus also says why do you call Me Lord and not do what I say:

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great." Luke 6:46-49

I am not aware of any scripture that indicates obedience to water baptism is no longer necessary.

Hope this information helps.

Wansvic · Dec 30, 2019

Absolutely said:

Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples in Acts 19:2-6 shows the need for re-baptism into the name of Jesus' for those who were baptized by John the Baptist previous to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.

garee · Dec 30, 2019

Wansvic said:

That is describing the two different kinds of baptisms .The Holy Spirit baptism .The one not seen that occurs upon believing the gospel . The baptism in a unseen authority called a name . And the baptism of those of the kingdom of priest using water as that seen as a shadow that disappears .

JaumeJ · Dec 30, 2019

Wansvic said:

Why would any who know th eWWord fairly well question the validity of the baptism by John, you know, The Baptist.?
Did Jesus, Yeshua, require a more valid baptism? It seems there is a very nouveau understanding of Paul, or else Paul is not quite with the Gospel. Also, John declared that he baptized with water, but the One to come, Yeshua, would baptize them with the Holy Spirit…. Perhaps you are thinking of this as a second baptism????

Whispered · Dec 30, 2019

Baptism is like unto the Mikveh. Baptism is not an example of legalism. It is an example of uniting with Christ through the symbolic reckoning of His death and resurrection. A sinner goes down in water and is cleansed from all sins. Like unto their physical birth when they were delivered from their mothers water in the womb, that sinner is now raised from the water and delivered from all sins. They are made new, as if a newborn without sin, in Christ.
This rite is done in the name of Jesus.
Those Baptized in the name of the Father , Son, and Holy Spirit, the only time those three are joined together in a verse, are being Baptized in the name of the trinity. However when one is Baptized in the name of Jesus it is the same thing. Because Jesus was God and God is Holy pirit.
Jesus said one must be born again in the water and the spirit in order to see the kingdom of God.

Acts 8

TheLearner · Dec 30, 2019

Acts 19:1-6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Paul in Ephesus
19 While Apollos was in the city of Corinth, Paul was visiting some places on his way to Ephesus. In Ephesus he found some other followers of the Lord. 2 He asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

These followers said to him, “We have never even heard of a Holy Spirit!”

3 Paul asked them, “So what kind of baptism did you have?”

They said, “It was the baptism that John taught.”

4 Paul said, “John told people to be baptized to show they wanted to change their lives. He told people to believe in the one who would come after him, and that one is Jesus.”

5 When these followers heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then Paul laid his hands on them, and the Holy Spirit came on them. They began speaking different languages and prophesying.

Romans 8:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
9 But you are not ruled by your sinful selves. You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ.

TheLearner · Dec 30, 2019

Whispered said:

Acts 8:14-18 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
14 The apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted the word of God. So they sent Peter and John to the people in Samaria. 15 When Peter and John arrived, they prayed for the Samaritan believers to receive the Holy Spirit. 16 These people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them. This is why Peter and John prayed. 17 When the two apostles laid their hands on the people, they received the Holy Spirit.

18 Simon saw that the Spirit was given to people when the apostles laid their hands on them. So he offered the apostles money.

From context, they did not receive the Holy Spirit by Baptism. They got the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands.

Whispered · Dec 30, 2019

TheLearner said:

“…Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call” The book of Acts chapter 2:38-39

TheLearner · Dec 30, 2019

in the name of simply means by the authority of....

Curious, were does it say that the Apostles themselves were baptized in Jesus Name?

Make a list of your beliefs, theology, doctrines and teachings and try to find those in the Early Church Fathers. If your position is not there, then the early church did not teach what you think.

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
4. And before the baptism let the baptiser and him who is to be baptised fast, and any others who are able. And thou shalt bid him who is to be baptised to fast one or two days before.
http://www.thedidache.com/

Wansvic · Dec 31, 2019

TheLearner said:

The point is both water baptism in Jesus' name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost are necessary. Also, it does not matter which one comes first. This is clearly seen in scripture:

Acts 8:12-17 (Water baptism in Jesus' name than Holy Ghost), 10:44-48 (Holy Ghost than Water baptism in Jesus' name), 19:2-6 (Water baptism in Jesus' name than Holy Ghost)

Wansvic · Dec 31, 2019

TheLearner said:

God's Word is the final authority concerning obedience required of everyone. The Word clearly states that everyone will be judged by the Word. No one will be judged by religious principles outlined in various publications.

Concepts regarding the proper way to water baptize can be found by those willing to study out God's Word rather than accept man-made traditions. Acts 2:38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:16.

Wansvic · Dec 31, 2019

TheLearner said:

The Bible is silent concerning the apostles personal water baptisms.

Wansvic · Dec 31, 2019

garee said:

The infilling of the Holy Ghost DOES NOT occur upon one's belief. If you take the time to read the account, Paul re-water baptized the disciples that had been water baptized previously by John the Baptist. After water baptizing them in the name of Jesus, Paul laid hands upon the Ephesus disciples and they received the Holy Ghost.

Locoponydirtman · Dec 31, 2019

I think that part of the error being made here is that baptism is a work of man, but it's not, it's instituted by the Lord himself and thus all the work of baptism is done by him a pastor can dunk you in water and say the name of the Lord, but the Lord does the works.
Just like communion, we are not doing anything more than eating bread and drinking wine, the Holy Spirit works repentance of sin, and Jesus imparts his body and blood and the benefits there of to us.

TheLearner · Dec 31, 2019

Wansvic said:

How was the dude on the cross baptized?

Why does Eph 2:8-9 not refer to baptism?

Why did Paul Baptise so few people?

101 Reasons Why Water Baptism is Not Necessary to be Saved

Many verses emphasize salvation by grace through faith without mentioning water baptism:

1. John 1:12
2. John 3:14-18, 36 (whoever)
3. John 5:24
4. John 6:29-40, 47, 69 (whoever, everyone)
5. John 11:25-26 (whoever)
6. John 12:46-50 (whoever)
7. John 16:7-9 (not believe)
8. John 17:20-22
9. John 20:31
10. Acts 2:21,33 (everyone)
11. Acts 10:43-48 (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation)
12. Acts 13:38-39, 48 (everyone)
13. Acts 15:8-11
14. Acts 16:30-31 (answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?)
15. Acts 26:18
16. Romans 1:16 (everyone)
17. Romans 3:20-31 (all who believe)
18. Romans 4:1-11
19. Romans 4:23-25
20. Romans 5:1-21
21. Romans 9:30-33 (whoever)
22. Romans 10:4-13 (everyone, whoever)
23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith)
24. Galatians 5:5-6
25. Ephesians 2:8-10
26. Philippians 3:4-14
27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
28. Hebrews 4:2-3
29. 1 Peter 2:6
30. 1 John 1:5-10
31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ)
32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever)

33. Other verses mention belief without water baptism: Luke 7:50; John 2:11, 23; John 4:39, 41; John 7:38-39; John 8:30-32; John 9:35-36; John 10:42; John 11:45, 48; John 12:11, 42-44; John 14:1, 12; John 20:31; Acts 14:23; Acts 20:21; Romans 15:13; Philippians 1:29; Titus 3:8. There nine instances of conversion in the book of Acts without reference to baptism: Acts 3:1-4:4, Acts 5:1-14, Acts 9:32-35, Acts 11:19-24, Acts 13:6-12, Acts 13:42-52, Acts 14:1, Acts 17:10-12, Acts 17:22-34. Did the authors miss the opportunity to mention baptism in these many passages if it is so important?

34. Many of the above verses use the language “whosoever” (King James) or “whoever” or “everyone” who believes. This language is all-encompassing. That is, by the language of the text nothing else is required for salvation except faith. Thus, in addition to not mentioning water baptism, the all-encompassing language of whoever precludes other requirements. SO HERE WE HAVE THE THESIS OF SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH DEMONSTRATED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.

35. Further, many verses specifically preclude works as a way to salvation: Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20, 28; Galatians 2:15-17; Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5; Philippians 3:8-9 (“everything”), etc. Others say that we cannot boast before God—a similar concept (Romans 3:27; 1 Corinthians 1:29).

Note: some of these passages could be construed to mean we are not saved by the Law of Moses—the Old Testament law— leaving open that other works (“laws of Christ”) are necessary for salvation. However, other passages clarify that “works” are any works. See Romans 3:20-27 (clearly speaking of moral law--sin and righteousness--thus broader than ceremonial law of Moses); Galatians 2:21, Galatians 3:21-22 (“if a law”); Galatians 3:25 (no longer a guardian law); Titus 3:5. And please consider Romans 13:10 in Young's Literal Translation: "Love therefore is the fulness of law." Note that in the Greek there is no "the" in front of "law," making law a general term and not a reference to Old Testament law. So Paul is making a general case that we are not saved by works of any kind. Jesus himself explains in John 6:27-29 that the “work” we must do is to believe. Thus we are not saved by what we do; we cannot get to heaven by what we do. HERE WE HAVE THE THESIS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH DEMONSTRATED IN THE NEGATIVE.

36. Baptism in the Bible typically follows one’s saving faith as an act of obedience after being saved. Examples: Acts 2:41 and 10:44-48.

37. We listed numerous passages that say that forgiveness of sins comes with faith. There are also passages that indicate that forgiveness of sins is associated with repentance (without mention of water baptism), for example Mark 1:15; Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; Acts 5:31; Acts 19:4; Acts 20:21; 2 Corinthians 7:10.

38. Faith and repentance are closely associated. They are like two sides of the same coin. You cannot turn toward Christ without turning away from sin. So the command to non-Christians is to repent and believe. All other commands to obedience in the New Testament, including water baptism, are to people who are already Christians.

39. Having pointed out the above, we must clarify that the type of faith that saves is one that is obedient. Ephesians 2:8-10 confirms that we are saved by grace through faith and not of our own doing, but through a faith that results in good works. James 2 confirms that we cannot be saved by a “dead” faith. Thus we are saved by a living faith. Someone who has a genuine faith will seek to conform their life to the will of God. Ephesians 2 confirms that even faith itself is a gift of God. Yet a living faith is still faith. Faith expressed is still faith. We would question whether a person who refused water baptism has a genuine (living) faith. A person who had received a saving faith would want to be obedient, thus would be baptized, not for salvation but because of it.

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

TheLearner · Dec 31, 2019

40. Yes, “works” are indeed necessary for salvation—Christ’s work (Romans 5:19)! For us humans, works are an output rather than an input. In terms of a formula:

(a) Correct Formula: GRACE THROUGH FAITH = SALVATION + WORKS
(b) Incorrect Formula: GRACE THROUGH FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION

Formula (b) is biblically incorrect as well as logically incorrect. The first law of logic says that 2 contradictory things cannot both be true at the same time and in the same relationship. The definition of grace is unmerited favor (http://www.carm.org/christianity/dictionary-theology/gehenna-hypostatic-union#_1_75) and is a free gift (Romans 5:15, 5:16, 6:23). So it would be merited favor if works are required for salvation. Something cannot both be unmerited and merited at the same time. This is precisely what Paul is arguing in Romans 11:6 (“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”) and in Galatians 2:9 (“I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly.”)

41. Nowhere does the Bible say the words, “cannot be saved without water baptism,” or “an unbaptized believer is not saved.”

Items 42 through 59 pertain to Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21, and Acts 22:16—passages which are often used to show that water baptism saves.

42. Acts 2:38 in most translations says, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins….” But there are valid reasons why for in Acts 2:38 does not necessarily mean “in order to achieve” forgiveness of sins. The Greek word eis (“for”) can have a variety of translations or meanings. Possible meanings include "in," "into," "unto," "to,"towards," "at," or even “because of,” “as a result of,” or “in light of.” There are many passages in the New Testament that show these various nuances in meaning: Matthew 3:11, 10:41, 12:41, 28:19; Mark 1:9; Luke 5:14, 14:23; John 4:5, 11:31; Acts 2:25, 10:43, 19:3, 22:10; Romans 4:20, 5:8, 5:12, 6:3; 1 Corinthians 10:2. Thus, whatever follows eis (for) may even be something that has already been accomplished. Robert Morey cites many Bible translations that render eis in Acts 2:38 as “because of” or “as a result of” or “in light of.” Also helpful is an essay by Lanny Tanton, a former Church of Christ preacher that changed his mind on this: Change of Mind. Eis also “looks backward” in the Old Testament Septuagint (Malachi 2:2, 2:11).

43. The English dictionary gives about a dozen ways that the word “for” is used. For example, consider the statement, “John was beheaded for his faithfulness.” Isn't it accurate to say that “for” does not mean “in order to obtain” in this sentence? Similarly, the statement "Take two aspirin for a headache" does not mean "Take two aspirin in order to get a headache."

44. Further regarding Acts 2:38, The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible (page 1357) says this, “The main verb in this verse is metanoesate (3340), meaning 'repent.' This refers to that initial repentance of a sinner unto salvation. The verb translated ‘be baptized’ is in the indirect passive imperative of baptizo (907) which means that it does not have the same force as the direct command of ‘repent.’ The preposition ‘for’ in the phrase ‘for the remission of sins’ in Greek is eis (1519), ‘unto.’ Literally it means ‘for the purpose of identifying you with the remission of sins.’ This same preposition is used in 1 Corinthians 10:2 in the phrase ‘and were all baptized unto [eis] Moses.’ These people were identifying themselves with the work and ministry of Moses. Repentance is something that concerns an individual and God, while baptism is intended to be a testimony to other people. That is why baptistheto, ‘to be baptized,’ is in the passive voice indicating that one does not baptize himself, but he is baptized by another usually in the presence of others.”

45. Thayer’s A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament confirms many alternative meanings to the Greek word eis.

46. People are saved after (1) hearing God’s word (Acts 2:22-37). They then (2) received God’s word (Acts 2:41) and (3) believed in Jesus (Acts 10:43, Romans 10:9-13) for salvation. Peter’s audience “gladly received his word”—and by necessary inference believed in their hearts and put their trust in Jesus—before they were water baptized (Acts 2:41). Salvation thus comes at the point of receiving God’s word and taking it to heart.

47. Those who believed Peter’s message clearly received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized. Peter said, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” (Acts 10:47) Peter’s first emphasis is on having received the Holy Spirit (just as we have); baptism comes later as a follow-up.

48. Scripture must be interpreted so that it harmonizes. Language is often not straight forward or literal, and interpretation is required. There are passages that may seem to be saying, on the surface, that we must do something to be saved (water baptism)—such as Acts 2:38 or Mark 16:16. But if they actually meant that, Scripture would be contradictory. Any concept or statement that is contradictory cannot be true. Note for example, that Mark 16:16 does not specifically say that all who believe but are not baptized go to hell. If it did, it would contradict the “whoever” passages such as John 3:16 or Acts 10:43 (whoever believes shall be saved) and would also contradict the numerous passages that say we are not saved by works (Romans 3, Ephesians 2, Galatians 3, Titus 3, etc.). Similarly, Acts 2:38 cannot mean that water baptism is necessary for salvation because Acts 2:21 says that “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” The way to harmonize these concepts is to understand that works such as water baptism are things that a true saved believer will do to be obedient. But (in the case of an adult convert) such works follow salvation. Thus we are saved by a living faith (James 2). But faith expressed is still faith—and it is faith that saves us—not the works.

49. To emphasize, if eis has the meaning of “in order to be saved” in Acts 2:38, it suggests that salvation is based on works—an idea that runs counter to the theology of Acts, namely: (a) repentance—and sins blotted out—often precedes baptism (cf. Acts 3:19, 26:20), and (b) salvation is entirely a gift of God, not procured via water baptism (Acts 10:43 [cf. v. 47]; Acts 13:38-39, 48; Acts 15:11; Acts 16:30-31; Acts 20:21; Acts 26:18).

http://www.faithfacts.org/world-rel...1-reasons-baptism-not-necessary-for-salvation

Magenta · Dec 31, 2019

Wansvic said:

Where does that title come from? I have never heard Peter called that before

Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

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