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I like what you said. You consider all christians brothers and sisters. No matter the doctrine differences and I like that idea.
So my question would be, why are there so many different interpretation of the scriptures. We can be group of ten and we will get 10 difference answers.
What will be the solution to the problem. What is the one thing that is consistent and not changing?
So my question would be, why are there so many different interpretation of the scriptures. We can be group of ten and we will get 10 difference answers.
What will be the solution to the problem. What is the one thing that is consistent and not changing?
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See, that is what everyone assume to your statement, if you think they are not done away then you are still under them. And all the laws that go with them. This is what I believe and tell me if your assumption applies to me... We are saved by grace, justified by faith apart from the law, made God's righteousness in Yeshua not buy the works of the law. I will say this... Grace is the way to God, the Law is the walk with God because one is obedient to God. The Ten Commandment are not done away with and you yourself keep them not realizing it. Is stealing wrong? The law tells us, thou shall not steal. Is committing adultery wrong? The law tells us, thou shall not commit adultery.
Yeshua did not take the law to the cross he too the curse of the law to the cross.
I can respond to your post, but you can get my response from my previous posts.
See, that is what everyone assume to your statement, if you think they are not done away then you are still under them. And all the laws that go with them. This is what I believe and tell me if your assumption applies to me... We are saved by grace, justified by faith apart from the law, made God's righteousness in Yeshua not buy the works of the law. I will say this... Grace is the way to God, the Law is the walk with God because one is obedient to God. The Ten Commandment are not done away with and you yourself keep them not realizing it. Is stealing wrong? The law tells us, thou shall not steal. Is committing adultery wrong? The law tells us, thou shall not commit adultery.
Yeshua did not take the law to the cross he too the curse of the law to the cross.
I can respond to your post, but you can get my response from my previous posts.
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I am not sure what point you trying to make? Our response to evil should not be with force or voilence. Our response would be with love
Jesus was very kind and patience with Judas. We ought to treat everyone the same and that is what it comes down too. And Jesus tried to win over Judas up to the last supper.
And that was the beauty of Christ's character.
Jesus was very kind and patience with Judas. We ought to treat everyone the same and that is what it comes down too. And Jesus tried to win over Judas up to the last supper.
And that was the beauty of Christ's character.
i think we will always disagree because everyone reads things differently. the bible is such a big book that if you go to like the book of joel you can get any kind of doctrine from there, but when you are in the new testament you can get completely different doctrine.
thats probably one difference, is people like to mix covenants. another problem is we can get hung up on one verse and not look at the entire revelation and see the whole message of the bible.
i am probably guilty of many interpretation failures as well without even realizing it
my opinion is: as long as we agree on the fundamentals we are good
thats probably one difference, is people like to mix covenants. another problem is we can get hung up on one verse and not look at the entire revelation and see the whole message of the bible.
i am probably guilty of many interpretation failures as well without even realizing it
my opinion is: as long as we agree on the fundamentals we are good
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i think we will always disagree because everyone reads things differently. the bible is such a big book that if you go to like the book of joel you can get any kind of doctrine from there, but when you are in the new testament you can get completely different doctrine.
thats probably one difference, is people like to mix covenants. another problem is we can get hung up on one verse and not look at the entire revelation and see the whole message of the bible.
i am probably guilty of many interpretation failures as well without even realizing it
my opinion is: as long as we agree on the fundamentals we are good
thats probably one difference, is people like to mix covenants. another problem is we can get hung up on one verse and not look at the entire revelation and see the whole message of the bible.
i am probably guilty of many interpretation failures as well without even realizing it
my opinion is: as long as we agree on the fundamentals we are good
The law whereby God lives is He loves to give. The first fourth commandments is for us to indentify ourselves as creatures. We ought to take from God. (And how do we take from God is through prayer and even when we pray, we should pray unselfish prayers. Jesus always prayed unselfish prayers for the benefit of others) That gives us, our true identity. And the other six commandments is for us to give. Our dependency is not any other person on the earth. Solely on God. Because of our selfish nature we give in order to receive.
And that means our identity is dependent on who we are taking from. If we take from God, we are acknowledging we are creatures and stewards of God's property. Meaning whatever we do, will be good. Whether we eat, sleep, play, work or read. If our motivation is by love and we know that God is our source not ourselves.
And on the otherhand. If our motivation is not lead by love. That means if we take from satan, we think we are gods. And we give in order to receive. So if our identity is wrong means whatever good we do will amount to nothing. Our thinking is opposite of the truth. If we have the right identity. We will take from God whatever we have need of and also share with others. Not expecting anything in return.
For I the Lord, I change not. If all of us look through the same lens and it something that does not change we will come to same conclusion.
So if we read the scripture we sometimes use our own knowledge and experience to interpret. And we place ourselves idea above the word. And how will do we know our interpretation is right.
And the law of life is taking from God and sharing with others. Every deed we do should be unselfish and the motivation should be of love. I know it difficult to understand what I just tried to explain.
It is probably hard message but the standard of living is very high for us Christians to be motivated by love in every action we take.
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The same Yeshua that was kind rebuked Peter with authority. The same Yeshua that was kind told the Pharisee, ye are of your father the devil.
I do not consider JW's, Mormons, and many other false religion my brothers! There is a way that seems righteous unto a man, but the end thereof is destruction. I am responding to the following statement that was made... I like what you said. You consider all christians brothers and sisters. No matter the doctrine differences and I like that idea. If you did not mean it the way one would read it then it should be clear. Would you consider the JW's your brother as a believer?
The same Yeshua that was kind rebuked Peter with authority. The same Yeshua that was kind told the Pharisee, ye are of your father the devil.
I do not consider JW's, Mormons, and many other false religion my brothers! There is a way that seems righteous unto a man, but the end thereof is destruction. I am responding to the following statement that was made... I like what you said. You consider all christians brothers and sisters. No matter the doctrine differences and I like that idea. If you did not mean it the way one would read it then it should be clear. Would you consider the JW's your brother as a believer?
I guess I really don't know the answer to your question, however, that group of 10 are all on a journey with God and He is our guide and teacher so no matter the denomination. If the 10 are true seekers of God He will lead them on the path they should take and we are at different stages on that path some at the beginning and maybe some at the end but He will never leave or forsake us and we should all strive to help each other out realizing that we aren't all at the same spot on our journey.
We should always keep our hearts open for the Holy Spirit to do the work that needs to be done in us and we should continue to love each other and help not condemn each other just because we have a different opinion or a different learning path. God will finish the work He started in each of us and we should be patient with each other as we are all on the journey to find our way back home where we live with God and God always will be with us.
I think too that one reason so many different denominations and the 10 are in different ones is that God has other people He needs to reach and if we were all in the same one that those people might not be reached and God will use who or whatever He needs to so that people every where have a chance to be saved and get to know Him.... Those are just some of my thoughts.
The solution is to yield to God and let Him work through all 10 of us and if all 10 would become more like Jesus there would be more love and understanding in the world. We waste too much time defending our beliefs instead of loving our neighbor and treating them the way we would want to be treated or following Jesus example on how He treated sinners as He was always reaching out to save them or heal them.
We should always keep our hearts open for the Holy Spirit to do the work that needs to be done in us and we should continue to love each other and help not condemn each other just because we have a different opinion or a different learning path. God will finish the work He started in each of us and we should be patient with each other as we are all on the journey to find our way back home where we live with God and God always will be with us.
I think too that one reason so many different denominations and the 10 are in different ones is that God has other people He needs to reach and if we were all in the same one that those people might not be reached and God will use who or whatever He needs to so that people every where have a chance to be saved and get to know Him.... Those are just some of my thoughts.
The solution is to yield to God and let Him work through all 10 of us and if all 10 would become more like Jesus there would be more love and understanding in the world. We waste too much time defending our beliefs instead of loving our neighbor and treating them the way we would want to be treated or following Jesus example on how He treated sinners as He was always reaching out to save them or heal them.
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You didn't ask me but I will reply anyway... If they had accepted Jesus as their Savior, repented and spread the gospel why wouldn't I accept them as a brother or sister? What more do they need to do other than the above even if their church taught a different doctrine than your church? Salvation is through Jesus blood not what we do or believe because of what our church taught us. Salvation is the same gift offered to the entire world.
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I understand what you are saying, but let's take the JW's, they say Yeshua is a created being and not deity, is that the Yeshua you serve? The Mormon say that Christ and satan are brothers, is that the Yeshua you serve? If not, how can you call them your brother. Your hope is for them to come to know Yeshua as Lord and Savior.
So, your answer shows a good heart within, but one cannot deny what the Scriptures says. We are warn from the Scriptures to walk circumspectly, remember, men of God are also misled which is why you will enjoy the book, it talks of the 3 essential ingredients in serving God.
I understand what you are saying, but let's take the JW's, they say Yeshua is a created being and not deity, is that the Yeshua you serve? The Mormon say that Christ and satan are brothers, is that the Yeshua you serve? If not, how can you call them your brother. Your hope is for them to come to know Yeshua as Lord and Savior.
So, your answer shows a good heart within, but one cannot deny what the Scriptures says. We are warn from the Scriptures to walk circumspectly, remember, men of God are also misled which is why you will enjoy the book, it talks of the 3 essential ingredients in serving God.
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One more thing, it is not about being hard, but about one calling it according to the Scriptures. Everyone wants to preach a wash down Gospel, God is love, God is love, God is love and we all know, but the Scriptures tell us that God is a consuming fire, smoke rose from His nostrils, and consuming fire came from His mouth. Psalms 2:12 says... Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Thank God for his love and mercy that is revealed in his Son, Yeshua.
One more thing, it is not about being hard, but about one calling it according to the Scriptures. Everyone wants to preach a wash down Gospel, God is love, God is love, God is love and we all know, but the Scriptures tell us that God is a consuming fire, smoke rose from His nostrils, and consuming fire came from His mouth. Psalms 2:12 says... Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Thank God for his love and mercy that is revealed in his Son, Yeshua.
Its not possible for carnal people to keep the law. All that carnal people keep is their carnal understanding of what they think the law says.
So, as soon as you start working at the law in your own understanding you fall short of the mark. Both your understanding and your work fall short of what is intended.
What is possible is to be CAUSED to walk in Gods Statutes by Abiding in Christ and being transformed into a new creation.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
DO you understand what this verse is saying?
The Law DOESN'T cause us to walk with God.
The Bringing in of a Better Hope causes us to walk with God.
Galatians 3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Working at the law in our own understanding and strength is ABSOLUTELY done away in Christ.
Just think about this for a brief moment. Whose work should you trust to make you righteous according to the Law? Your own? Or Gods?
Wouldn't it be much better to have God make you righteous instead of trying to do it yourself? Don't you think He has a better understanding of what Righteousness is? Don't you think He has more ability than yourself?
Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
So, as soon as you start working at the law in your own understanding you fall short of the mark. Both your understanding and your work fall short of what is intended.
What is possible is to be CAUSED to walk in Gods Statutes by Abiding in Christ and being transformed into a new creation.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
DO you understand what this verse is saying?
The Law DOESN'T cause us to walk with God.
The Bringing in of a Better Hope causes us to walk with God.
Galatians 3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Working at the law in our own understanding and strength is ABSOLUTELY done away in Christ.
Just think about this for a brief moment. Whose work should you trust to make you righteous according to the Law? Your own? Or Gods?
Wouldn't it be much better to have God make you righteous instead of trying to do it yourself? Don't you think He has a better understanding of what Righteousness is? Don't you think He has more ability than yourself?
Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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I would say to them that this is where we differ in our beliefs you have told me what you believe now let me tell you what I believe. We are seed planters someone else might come along and water the seed but only the Holy Spirit can make that seed grow and be accepted. So yes, in my heart I can still call them a brother or sister as long as they have repented and accept Jesus as their Savior.
What I call hard liners and scare tactics have never worked on me and it is also why some unbelievers steer clear of so called Christians. Who wants to be around someone always telling you that you are going to Hell? I would rather be around someone telling me that God loves me to the point He sacrificed His Son for us.
What I call hard liners and scare tactics have never worked on me and it is also why some unbelievers steer clear of so called Christians. Who wants to be around someone always telling you that you are going to Hell? I would rather be around someone telling me that God loves me to the point He sacrificed His Son for us.
i don't know about the covenant God made with Abraham having nothing to do with salvation.
Galatians 3 seems to equate the two, actually:
it's awfully significant then, that the sign of the covenant/promise in the flesh is taken away though the promise/covenant still stands -- that it stands by faith rather than by observation of fleshly rite. was physical circumcision a shadow of the good thing to come? because scripture calls us sons of Abraham by faith - because the promise is to & through The Seed not by law or by carnal descendancy
do you think that fact might be 'offensive' to the circumcision?
as tho the workers in the vineyard, who had labored all day, might be offended at someone who does 10x less, but receives the same reward? those former workers might say, hey, that's not fair, that guy has to do all the things we had to do, right? but God would say, why are you angry because I AM generous?
Galatians 3 seems to equate the two, actually:
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
(Galatians 3:7-9)
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
(Galatians 3:14)
you may say, well, the covenant with Abraham and the promise to Abraham are different? (Galatians 3:7-9)
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
(Galatians 3:14)
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
(Galatians 3:17-18)
but doesn't that passage call them the same?(Galatians 3:17-18)
it's awfully significant then, that the sign of the covenant/promise in the flesh is taken away though the promise/covenant still stands -- that it stands by faith rather than by observation of fleshly rite. was physical circumcision a shadow of the good thing to come? because scripture calls us sons of Abraham by faith - because the promise is to & through The Seed not by law or by carnal descendancy
do you think that fact might be 'offensive' to the circumcision?
as tho the workers in the vineyard, who had labored all day, might be offended at someone who does 10x less, but receives the same reward? those former workers might say, hey, that's not fair, that guy has to do all the things we had to do, right? but God would say, why are you angry because I AM generous?