Paul Son of God!!?

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iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#1
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
#1
Following personal observations ad opinions:

It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly: With the words of Paul not conforming to the words of Christ but the other way around.

Everything seems to be carnal with no foundational building blocks leading to a volume of the book or End of The Matter type conclusion.

Dividing faith from works.
Dividing righteousness from faith.
Dividing Salvation from Obedience and Overcoming the world.
etc.
Dividing Commandments from Love and Obedience


1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
--------------
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--------------
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,783
113
#2
It would be much easier if some people directly quote others where they (allegedly) state or imply that Paul is the Son of God instead of passively and indirectly throwing shade at said unnamed others.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,451
113
#3
iymus said:
It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly: With the words of Paul not conforming to the words of Christ but the other way around.
Click to expand...
I admit as a woman that I am a son of God :)
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#4
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
695
113
#4
iymus said:
Following personal observations ad opinions:

It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly: With the words of Paul not conforming to the words of Christ but the other way around.

Everything seems to be carnal with no foundational building blocks leading to a volume of the book or End of The Matter type conclusion.

Dividing faith from works.
Dividing righteousness from faith.
Dividing Salvation from Obedience and Overcoming the world.
etc.
Dividing Commandments from Love and Obedience


1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
--------------
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--------------
Click to expand...
I would just remind you that if you think Paul is saying something different than Peter, that Peter considered Paul’s writing equal to the OT and that he knew some people were confused by some of it.

He (Peter) also stated that often “unstable” and “unlearned” people had a problem with what Paul wrote, and that it usually did not turn out well for them.

What I have seen is that those who consider Paul’s writings contrary to their doctrine, usually have issues with other Scriptures as well.

Jesus stated that man shall live by “every” word of God, I think that would include those things written by Paul.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#5
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
113
#5
now i know why you chose unsure in your spiritual status. you are not a christian
st.paul does not contradict Jesus if scripture is rightly divided.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#6
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,451
113
#6
Sipsey said:
What I have seen is that those who consider Paul’s writings contrary to their doctrine, usually have issues with other Scriptures as well.
Click to expand...
I have observed those too, who will accept only red letter texts as being "Truth" while the same person will denigrate the rest of what the very same writer has to say. To them I would ask, why accept anything they say as being reliably inspired? It seems contradictory to believe someone they find unreliable would reliably record what Jesus said. Perhaps they do not see the lack of logic in their position :oops:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#7
#7
It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly
Click to expand...
more fluff as you call it?

since you admit you do not know what you believe, you must be trolling or hoping someone will clue you in
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#8
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#8
When people turn around what scripture tells us, it is not the fault of the facts, in the men reporting facts, in how scripture is written, in any of this. It is the individual man reading scripture that is turning it around. Scripture tells us that Christ is God, and there is no difference in them except that Christ lived here as a man and was crucified for our sins and Paul was an extremely intelligent man trained as a rabbi and spoken to directly to by God.

Paul is misunderstood today as he was while he was living. The misunderstand now, as it was in Paul's day, has to do with God's relationship with the Jews as being different from God's relationship with the gentiles. Scripture tells us it is the same, man tells us that it is different. God created the Jewish race to be used to help us understand His ways for all humans and gave them a special blessing in thanks for that. That fact has been distorted.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#9
Jun 11, 2018
3,334
3,704
113
68
#9
iymus said:
It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly: With the words of Paul not conforming to the words of Christ but the other way around.
Click to expand...
Hello Iymus, I don't believe that's true, it's more of a matter of understanding what the Lord Jesus was trying to convey to us in the Gospels when He lived among us as a man (remembering too that He lived & taught "under the law"), in contrast with the words that He spoke to us through the pen of the Apostle Paul, which were all written after His Resurrection (under "grace").

That said, there is much similarity between the teaching in the Gospels and in the Epistles. For instance, concerning justification/salvation/coming to faith, Jesus said:

John 5​
24 He who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.​

And concerning justification/salvation/coming to faith, Paul said:

Romans 10​
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​
​

God bless you!

~Deut

Acts 9​
15 The Lord said to Ananias, “Go, for he [Paul] is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel.​
​
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#10
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,451
113
#10
Blik said:
God created the Jewish race to be used to help us understand His ways for all humans and gave them a special blessing in thanks for that. That fact has been distorted.
Click to expand...
Jews were appointed to bring forth the Savior of the world, a blessing to all nations.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#11
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#11
Blik said:
When people turn around what scripture tells us, it is not the fault of the facts, in the men reporting facts, in how scripture is written, in any of this. It is the individual man reading scripture that is turning it around. Scripture tells us that Christ is God, and there is no difference in them except that Christ lived here as a man and was crucified for our sins and Paul was an extremely intelligent man trained as a rabbi and spoken to directly to by God.

Paul is misunderstood today as he was while he was living. The misunderstand now, as it was in Paul's day, has to do with God's relationship with the Jews as being different from God's relationship with the gentiles. Scripture tells us it is the same, man tells us that it is different. God created the Jewish race to be used to help us understand His ways for all humans and gave them a special blessing in thanks for that. That fact has been distorted.
Click to expand...
Oops. Sounds as if I am saying no difference in Paul and Christ. I started that sentence and got waylaid in the middle. I started saying no difference between Christ and and Father and the Holy Ghost.

Paul was taken to court because he was accused of not agreeing with the Father and they could not prove that. If Paul disagrees with God there is no contest between them, God created all Paul believes. The one who created the world is the one to listen to. If Paul disagrees with God, Paul is wrong. I don't think he does.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#12
Jan 14, 2019
8,191
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
#12
all Christians are saints and children of God, I do not see what the big deal is.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#13
Jun 11, 2018
3,334
3,704
113
68
#13
iymus said:
Dividing faith from works.
Dividing righteousness from faith.
Dividing Salvation from Obedience and Overcoming the world.
etc.
Dividing Commandments from Love and Obedience
Click to expand...
Hello again Iymus, did the Apostle Paul's words "divide faith from works" :unsure: I don't think so. For instance:

Ephesians 2
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ~for/unto~ good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

While it is true, of course, that we are justified/saved by grace through faith, apart from anything that we do, we are, nevertheless, saved by God for a great purpose in sanctification, which is the doing of good deeds according to His will. So, while we are saved apart from the doing good works (how can we be obedient to the will of Someone/do good works according to His will .. before we even know Him :unsure: .. 1 Corinthians 2:14), ours is a gracious salvation unto good works.

~Deut
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#14
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,451
113
#14
Deuteronomy said:
Romans 10​
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation​
Click to expand...


Romans 10:9 :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#15
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,451
113
#15
Deuteronomy said:
Ephesians 2​
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ~for/unto~ good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​
Click to expand...
​
Ephesians 2:8-9 :)​
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#16
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#16
iymus said:
Following personal observations ad opinions:

It would be much easier if some people admit confess that they believe that Paul is the Son of God directly instead of passively and indirectly: With the words of Paul not conforming to the words of Christ but the other way around.

Everything seems to be carnal with no foundational building blocks leading to a volume of the book or End of The Matter type conclusion.

Dividing faith from works.
Dividing righteousness from faith.
Dividing Salvation from Obedience and Overcoming the world.
etc.
Dividing Commandments from Love and Obedience


1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
--------------
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--------------
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 11:1

1 Corinthians 14:37
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#18
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
#18
Men used the carnal aspects of the words of Paul because is more convenient and satisfying to the hearts of men. Many don't want to hear words or concepts such as works of the Father, commandments of God, Accountability, discipline, etc.

Peter already mentioned of words in the epistle of Paul that are hard to be understood that people wrestle with unto destruction.

You all are free to continue to look at a carnal or micro level instead of on a macro, volume of the book, and End of the whole matter level. Permits for whatever reason is not permitted for you
 
iymus

iymus

Junior Member
#20
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
#20
iymus said:
Men used the carnal aspects of the words of Paul because is more convenient and satisfying to the hearts of men. Many don't want to hear words or concepts such as works of the Father, commandments of God, Accountability, discipline, etc.

Peter already mentioned of words in the epistle of Paul that are hard to be understood that people wrestle with unto destruction.

You all are free to continue to look at a carnal or micro level instead of on a macro, volume of the book, and End of the whole matter level. Permits for whatever reason is not permitted for you
Click to expand...
Disregard last sentence still working for Caesar on the clock so mind pulled multiple ways.
 
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