"All Have sinned," really?

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Magenta

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I thank everyone who has replied to this thread. You have given me much food for thought and reason to arrive at my own understanding. I understand that planet earth is spinning through the universe condemned and cursed by the original sin of Man’s disobedience to God and all are under the curse of their fathers sins. I believe that the biblical verse “all have sinned,” simply defines all of earth’s inhabitants are exposed without exception to the sinful nature of a cursed and condemned earth and all will be accountable for their sins as they reach an age of accountability as determined individually by our maker and none can or will avoid sin because man has made sin “natural” to the planet earth. Only Jesus the Christ can and will redeem his believers from sin in accordance with their faith and belief. By my faith I accept and understand this belief and will abide by it faithfully until I’m otherwise given a different understanding.
Hello Robo36 :) Scripture does not teach that we are under the curse of our father's sins. Ezekiel 18:20 tells us, “The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.” Each of us is responsible for our own sins, and we each bear the punishment for them. God will deal with each person on the merits of their own actions.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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Hello Robo36 :) Scripture does not teach that we are under the curse of our father's sins. Ezekiel 18:20 tells us, “The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.” Each of us is responsible for our own sins, and we each bear the punishment for them. God will deal with each person on the merits of their own actions.
It appeared to me he was summarizing the whole bible, in the OT there was a time went that was the case, he goes on to say people when reaching the age of accountability it is their sin and not their fathers, that is what it appears a summarized
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Scripture? That states that word for word please.
Whose word for whose word?

I think in the parable below it shows the spiritual understanding when compared to the spiritual. . . or faith the unseen eternal to the same unseen eternal.

Psalm 58:2-4 (KJV)Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;


Its the results of being born dead in one trespasses and sin without God and a living hope of a new incorruptible body. Born into a corrupted world under spirit of error the father of lies, the god of this world . The three way street of confusion described in 1 John 2

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

In the word for word description They are born with poison to represent false doctrine and cannot hear (deaf adder) the gospel unless God does the first work . Which could be in the womb or any time before they pass.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Whose word for whose word?

I think in the parable below it shows the spiritual understanding when compared to the spiritual. . . or faith the unseen eternal to the same unseen eternal.

In the word for word description They are born with poison to represent false doctrine and cannot hear (deaf adder) the gospel unless God does the first work . Which could be in the womb or any time before they pass.
Garee, the term, "word for word" means an exact quotation with no words missing or added. It has nothing to do with your "parables". Your question is completely irrelevant.

When you use the REPLY function, the post to which you are replying gets reproduced "word for word". When someone quotes Scripture and provides exactly the words from a particular translation of Scripture, they are providing the quote "word for word". The term has no other meaning.
 

Whispered

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www.christiancourier.com
Whose word for whose word?

I think in the parable below it shows the spiritual understanding when compared to the spiritual. . . or faith the unseen eternal to the same unseen eternal.

Psalm 58:2-4 (KJV)Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;


Its the results of being born dead in one trespasses and sin without God and a living hope of a new incorruptible body. Born into a corrupted world under spirit of error the father of lies, the god of this world . The three way street of confusion described in 1 John 2

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

In the word for word description They are born with poison to represent false doctrine and cannot hear (deaf adder) the gospel unless God does the first work . Which could be in the womb or any time before they pass.
You will understand I pray you that to answer your initial question above, my response again is generated per your prior statement
""Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die. The wrath of God revealed from heaven." "
You are making a proclamation as pertains to God and His word there. This is why it is your responsibility to uphold your claim that God stated that with scriptural proof. Book, chapter, verse(s).

Otherwise, you are misrepresenting God's words , which is forbidden by God to do. When you cannot provide the proof God said that exactly, not pressing together various scriptures and then interpolating per your desire to defend your prior statement, you are again wrong and acting contrary to God's warning. Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

The Book of Malachi chapter 3:6
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Hello Robo36 :) Scripture does not teach that we are under the curse of our father's sins. Ezekiel 18:20 tells us, “The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.” Each of us is responsible for our own sins, and we each bear the punishment for them. God will deal with each person on the merits of their own actions.
Another way of looking at it. The only soul that did not die could not die . . was that of Christ . All have and continue to fall short of that glory . As far as the father not sharing in the guilt .When we look to the example of the Father and the Son . The Son took the lower position of suffering of that two fold or mutual work . The Father pouring out the wrath in agreement with the Son. The Son suffering unto death crying out for strength. Working together as one . . . the peace of God that surpasses our human understanding. They finished it to establish the government of Christ. A loving authority and a willing worker .

God who works in us with us will deal to each person a measure of His work of faith that does work in them to both will and perform his good pleasure . He informs us we should believe without murmuring . Like. . . What about him or her ?. We should follow after him who does work in us looking up to where our help comes from. We could have a log in our own.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philippians 2: 13-14

He emphases that in the previous chapter a confidence builder.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
Answer:
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Yet? This "could" be done:
Jonah 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You will understand I pray you that to answer your initial question above, my response again is generated per your prior statement
""Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die. The wrath of God revealed from heaven." "
You are making a proclamation as pertains to God and His word there. This is why it is your responsibility to uphold your claim that God stated that with scriptural proof. Book, chapter, verse(s).

Otherwise, you are misrepresenting God's words , which is forbidden by God to do. When you cannot provide the proof God said that exactly, not pressing together various scriptures and then interpolating per your desire to defend your prior statement, you are again wrong and acting contrary to God's warning. Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

The Book of Malachi chapter 3:6
Yes, every word is proven true when we compare his word to His word as it is written. (word to word) Pressing together various scriptures and then interpolating per his desire for us to study to show oneself approved by Him. It is part of the process of comparing the spiritual understanding ,the gospel, to the same spirit of faith as it is written

The question is are babies born into a corrupted body subject to disease and death?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Garee, the term, "word for word" means an exact quotation with no words missing or added. It has nothing to do with your "parables". Your question is completely irrelevant.

When you use the REPLY function, the post to which you are replying gets reproduced "word for word". When someone quotes Scripture and provides exactly the words from a particular translation of Scripture, they are providing the quote "word for word". The term has no other meaning.

Thanks I am aware .The question was whose word to word? If the bible does not teach a doctrine .Where does it come from?
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Yes, every word is proven true when we compare his word to His word as it is written. (word to word) Pressing together various scriptures and then interpolating per his desire for us to study to show oneself approved by Him. It is part of the process of comparing the spiritual understanding ,the gospel, to the same spirit of faith as it is written
Thanks I am aware .The question was whose word to word? If the bible does not teach a doctrine .Where does it come from?
You claim to be "aware" but your comment to Whispered (bolded) and your question to me (also bolded) demonstrate that you are not aware. The term is not "word to word" but rather "word for word". Whispered asked for a word-for-word quotation from Scripture to support your claims about what it says. The "whose" in your question is completely irrelevant. The term, "word for word" is not to be broken down and analyzed; it is a specific term of three words with a specific meaning: exact quotation.

You said to Whispered, "Pressing together various scripture and then interpolating per his desire for us..."; that is not providing a word-for-word quotation. That is interpreting, which is different thing entirely. Yes, God intends us to interpret His word, but when we claim that it says something, we need to provide His exact words that support the idea, not our interpretations of His words.
 

iymus

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Feb 15, 2016
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It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
All have sinned as in inheriting the transgression of Eve because we are all the womans seed or born/fertiled thru woman

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

---------------------------------

Naturally we have all inherited genes, and traits from the first man and first woman.
-----------------------------------------

we are not perfect and have the capacity to lust and be tempted and even give in to wrongdoings and unrighteousness.

fortunately we also have the capacity to be sincere , disciplined, and turn back from any sins and unrighteousness not unto death.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
 
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1 Thessalonians 5:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 Pray without ceasing.


There is Hope! The Pure Blood/Bloodline of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ annihilates Generational Curses. This requires 24/7 total commitment on the part of the Disciple.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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No, that is not as I asked them to provide, the word for word scripture that states what they claimed about babies that have cancer. (Re-posted here for reference:"Babies born under the law are born into a corrupted cancer prone bodies body that in the end die. The wrath of God revealed from heaven. " )
to be fair he didn't say he was talking about babies that have cancer.
and he didn't say all babies have cancer.
he said '
babies born under the law' are born into bodies which are 'cancer prone'


all of our mortal bodies are subject to death ((Hebrews 9:27, 1 Corinthians 15:22, Romans 5:17-19, Ecclesiastes 3:20, etc etc))
all of our bodies decay and return to dust - almost from the moment we are born, perhaps even before, if we grew in knowledge of these processes, human flesh - and all other flesh - begins a state of decomposition.


there may be exceptions - it is said that Moses did not lose his vigor and strength in his old age, and we know Christ's flesh did not see corruption. does this mean not a skin or hair or toenail cell ever died? interesting question.

i'm not sure what garee meant by 'born under the law' - i have a guess - but it is certainly true that all flesh dies ((Isaiah 40:6-8, 1 Peter 1:24, Psalm 103:15-16, Ecclesiastes 12:7, Psalm 78:39 etc etc)) and is evident ((Romans 1:20)) that this process of mortagenesis doesn't wait around much to begin. so the 'born into a corrupted, cancer-prone' body comment is certainly scriptural ((1 Corinthians 15:53-55, Romans 8:20-21, etc)).

so -- is the death that all of us, every living creature on earth share in, representative of and/or exhibiting the wrath of God revealed from heaven? yes, that is justifiable from scripture as well: "in Adam all die" ((1 Corinthians 15:21-22, Romans 5:12-15 etc)) -- and this death is the result of sin, i.e. the judgement and wage of sin, and it is in every one of us through Adam, through sin. it is even in all the earth ((Genesis 3:17, Romans 8:20-21)) by sin.

i suspect you're just up in arms because he said "babies" -- but the truth is true and true of all.




garee made a really good point here:

Yes, every word is proven true when we compare his word to His word as it is written. (word to word) Pressing together various scriptures and then interpolating per his desire for us to study to show oneself approved by Him. It is part of the process of comparing the spiritual understanding ,the gospel, to the same spirit of faith as it is written
the Bible isn't just a bunch of disconnected sayings, each specialized for application to particular circumstances. it is a book, a fantastically interconnected book, inter-related and inter-dependent in complexity far beyond any other book that has ever existed. we are meant to put 2 and 2 together and 'compare scripture with scripture' -- it really is hardly fair for anyone to say "unless the Bible verbatim says such-and-such then it isn't true" -- because God intends for us to dwell in His word and reason from it. the scripture does not record Jesus 'word-for-word' saying that He is God -- but we know from mounds of inferential evidence, that He is. the Bible doesn't say 'word-for-word' a number of things that are absolutely true.

it is your responsibility to uphold your claim that God stated that with scriptural proof. Book, chapter, verse(s).

Otherwise, you are misrepresenting God's words , which is forbidden by God to do.
give me a book, chapter and verse that explicitly states a person must give a direct verbatim quote of book chapter and verse?
give me a book chapter and verse that expressly forbids '
misrepresenting' God's word?
give me a book chapter and verse that precisely prohibits combining scripture with scripture to arrive at truth?


IMO you are making unreasonable demands of garee for burden of proof when what you should be doing is 'studying to show yourself approved' and 'searching the scripture to find out if these things are true' -- God doesn't expect us to be imbecilically memorizing passages by rote without comprehending what they mean. He gave us minds and expects us to use them. what is it Christ did when He opened the understanding of the two on the road to Emmaus, showing them from all the OT all the things about Himself? He was explaining to them the meaning of these things, from what was written revealing how they all speak of Him. the Bible doesn't expressly say "the Seed of the Woman is Christ" -- but would you accuse someone of blasphemy for saying so because that statement isn't found literally word-for-word in scripture? that is, would you accuse someone other than me or garee for saying it? shall i go quote-mining your post history according to the measure you use to judge, and see how you yourself stack up?
i wouldn't have to go far:


Babies are not born with sin
book, chapter and verse, please ;)
 

posthuman

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Without the law there is no sin
FALSE

Without the law there is no sin, the Bible says. The Book of Romans chapter 4 verse 15.
where there is no law there is no transgression.
(Romans 4:15)
"transgression" here is παράβασις in Greek -- it is never translated as "sin" -- it means 'violation'
there is no violation of law when there is no law.


"sin" in Greek is ἁμαρτία and it's found in this verse:

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given
(Romans 5:13)
sin exists even when it is not particular transgression of a particular given law. how many times now have you been corrected on this?
wanna try using your 'word-for-word' requirement in judgement on yourself? :p
are you not guilty of that thing you accuse others of?

sin existed before the law. sin exists without the law. transgression is not accounted where there is no law.

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law,
and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
(Romans 2:12)
even among all who are without the law, there is sin, and it is judged.
 

posthuman

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All have sinned as in inheriting the transgression of Eve because we are all the womans seed or born/fertiled thru woman

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
we do not inherit the transgression of Eve, but of Adam. Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21 -- "through one man"
there was a space of time in the events of Genesis 3 in which there were two humans, one without death, Adam, and one with death, Woman. they had no children at this time. Adam, not deceived, chose to join his wife in sin and death. so it wasn't because she sinned, but because he did, that sin entered mankind and through sin, death.

what you are saying, that sin is inherited by being born of woman, makes Jesus Christ born in sin, with sin.
that's flat wrong. there is a very good, in fact a perfect reason God chose to be born of a virgin.
 

posthuman

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Garee, the term, "word for word" means an exact quotation with no words missing or added. It has nothing to do with your "parables". Your question is completely irrelevant.

When you use the REPLY function, the post to which you are replying gets reproduced "word for word". When someone quotes Scripture and provides exactly the words from a particular translation of Scripture, they are providing the quote "word for word". The term has no other meaning.
that is true, but as he replied, 'whose word for whose word?' -- if we can show that God's word implies, substantiates and/or justifies what words we say, then we have shown that what we have said is 'scriptural' -- not that our words are verbatim scripture being quoted but that what we say is in fact in keeping with the truth contained in scripture.

years ago here, i did have a habit of only posting scripture in threads, without adding any comments of my own. and i was criticized for it, being told, this is a discussion place, and it's not clear what i meant by whatever verses i put just by putting them, and that i ought to explain what i'm seeing in them and why post is posting them in the posts that post posts. that i'm not exactly 'discussing' anything when all i do is quote a passage.
i still do just put scripture pretty often, thinking that it speaks for itself, but i took it as a valid criticism -- because scripture is like a spring gushing forth, or like a tardis - 'bigger on the inside' - and while volumes upon volumes could be written about any passage in the Bible, all those volumes are not self-evident to everyone that reads them. so even while i do sometimes just quote-and-post and leave it at that, i also spend time trying to use my own words to convey what's found in the verses i quote. i do so not thinking, 'i am blaspheming by adding my own words' -- even though a few here may accuse me of that ((even while doing the same thing themselves without applying their own measures to themselves)) -- but thinking, i see something here, and there are others who won't see it without being pointed out & shown to them.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
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we do not inherit the transgression of Eve, but of Adam. Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21 -- "through one man"
there was a space of time in the events of Genesis 3 in which there were two humans, one without death, Adam, and one with death, Woman. they had no children at this time. Adam, not deceived, chose to join his wife in sin and death. so it wasn't because she sinned, but because he did, that sin entered mankind and through sin, death.


what you are saying, that sin is inherited by being born of woman, makes Jesus Christ born in sin, with sin.
that's flat wrong. there is a very good, in fact a perfect reason God chose to be born of a virgin.
we do not inherit the transgression of Eve, but of Adam. Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21 -- "through one man"
there was a space of time in the events of Genesis 3 in which there were two humans, one without death, Adam, and one with death, Woman. they had no children at this time. Adam, not deceived, chose to join his wife in sin and death. so it wasn't because she sinned, but because he did, that sin entered mankind and through sin, death.


what you are saying, that sin is inherited by being born of woman, makes Jesus Christ born in sin, with sin.
that's flat wrong. there is a very good, in fact a perfect reason God chose to be born of a virgin.
Sighs.:cautious:

#1 First and Foremost one cannot forget that Adam is male and female or also represents the collective.

#2 No one is saying the Man is not blameless for listening to his wife however the woman is implicated specifically as being in the transgression.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Why was the woman being deceived in the transgression? Because she lusted.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The Originator of the Sin of Man was the lust of his helpmate which brought forth death.

The Love of God is universal law. Eve's lust brought forth Sin read James 1:15 and Genesis 3:6 carefully.

At it's rudimentary core Sin is following one's own desires/ giving into lust instead of adhering to the love of God and will of the Father.
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our messiah was born of the seed of the man thru the woman just like every other son of man "which is by the woman". do not forget that the womans seed/sperma is of the man.
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Lastly their is a difference between a Virgin Birth and Virgin of Virginity Birth. One of which is not of the law and contradicts the prophecy given in Isaiah 7:14.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

The son was tempted like all of us however lust was not concieved, he endured untill the end. Though he did ask if the cup may pass from him "if it be the Father will".

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
 

posthuman

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#1 First and Foremost one cannot forget that Adam is male and female or also represents the collective.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
(Romans 5:12)

  • "one"
    • masculine singular
  • "man"
    • masculine singular

through the offence of one many be dead
(Romans 5:15)

  • "one"
    • masculine singular

by one man's disobedience many were made sinners
(Romans 5:19)

  • "one"
    • masculine singular
  • "man"
    • masculine singular
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:22)

  • "Adam"
    • masculine singular
 

posthuman

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Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The Originator of the Sin of Man was the lust of his helpmate which brought forth death.
was the tree actually good for food?
was the tree actually good to look at?
was the tree actually good for wisdom?


i.e. -- were her lusts here valid in her desires? or is this evidence of her state of deception?
Adam was not deceived, yet he also took and ate. if those lusts are borne in deception, could Adam have taken because of lust?
 

Dino246

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that is true, but as he replied, 'whose word for whose word?' -- if we can show that God's word implies, substantiates and/or justifies what words we say, then we have shown that what we have said is 'scriptural' -- not that our words are verbatim scripture being quoted but that what we say is in fact in keeping with the truth contained in scripture.

years ago here, i did have a habit of only posting scripture in threads, without adding any comments of my own. and i was criticized for it, being told, this is a discussion place, and it's not clear what i meant by whatever verses i put just by putting them, and that i ought to explain what i'm seeing in them and why post is posting them in the posts that post posts. that i'm not exactly 'discussing' anything when all i do is quote a passage.
i still do just put scripture pretty often, thinking that it speaks for itself, but i took it as a valid criticism -- because scripture is like a spring gushing forth, or like a tardis - '
bigger on the inside' - and while volumes upon volumes could be written about any passage in the Bible, all those volumes are not self-evident to everyone that reads them. so even while i do sometimes just quote-and-post and leave it at that, i also spend time trying to use my own words to convey what's found in the verses i quote. i do so not thinking, 'i am blaspheming by adding my own words' -- even though a few here may accuse me of that ((even while doing the same thing themselves without applying their own measures to themselves)) -- but thinking, i see something here, and there are others who won't see it without being pointed out & shown to them.
You make some good points, though I strongly suspect that Garee did not have any of those in mind. He was asked to provide "word for word" Scripture to support a point he had made, and instead of providing such, he questioned the term. Interpreted Scripture is helpful, but if all we have is the interpretation without the Scripture that (allegedly) supports it, we're no better off than if the comment wasn't made at all. :)