Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

[Butterflyyy]

I can share with you that, as a mother, her primary concern for her beloved children is that they are saved; and so this, causes a mother, to prioritise the Word and prayer, thus leading and edifying her in Truth.
It is also a wholesome occupation which helps keep her unspotted from the World; again her concern for her children causes her to shun evil.

 

[Whispered]

I don't know if we should consider four to be a lot. But anyway, Deborah was raised up to shame the men of that day who didn't have the courage to fulfill their God given leadership roles.

Women and children in leadership over the house of God is a shameful thing:

"12Youths oppress my people,

women rule over them.

My people, your guides lead you astray;

they turn you from the path." - Isaiah 3:12


I'm not sure that the office of Deacon is a position of authority, but rather one of humble service.

Please post the passage that says what you have posted above. "Deborah was raised up to shame the men of that day who didn't have the courage to fulfill their God given leadership roles."

 

[Butterflyyy]

Here, maybe this will clear it up for you what Paul was getting at:

"11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve." - 1 Timothy 2:11-13

The reason woman is not to assume pastoral authority in the church has nothing to do with culture. It has everything to do with the ordained order of things in heaven and earth. It goes like this: God >> Christ >> man >> woman.

And, in addition to that, Paul says Eve was the one deceived, not man:

"14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. " - 1 Timothy 2:14

That's yet another reason why woman are not to be in pastoral authority in the church. And that's what Paul is getting at here:

"for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?" - 1 Corinthians 14:35-36

But let's not open that can of worms.

You just did😐

 

[Whispered]

The Bible says nothing of this.

We seem to have more than one member posting that very thing of late. Have you also noticed this? They state things that the scriptures say this or that and yet there is no such passage.

 

[Dino246]

We seem to have more than one member posting that very thing of late. Have you also noticed this? They state things that the scriptures say this or that and yet there is no such passage.

Unfortunately, it's not new. People who make such claims should be directly challenged, for their own good and that of any readers.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Unfortunately, it's not new. People who make such claims should be directly challenged, for their own good and that of any readers.

Lol Dino can you believe this thread?!!😂

 

[Dino246]

Lol Dino can you believe this thread?!!😂

This is tame compared to some of the past threads on this topic. People get really incensed over this, like you're branding their sacred cow.

 

[mar09]

Then again I have to apologize realizing some mistake as happens when quickly running or hopping from one task to another.. I have posted from Willmington's Handbook on childbearing, and kind of interchange childbirth w/ childbearing, wc aren't the same, right?! Its early sunday, and had to do cooking in 2 mins, to prep and run to church too!

But still think it touches on misconceptions on pain in childbirth, wc simply affects our understanding of the particular verse first raised by the OP.

Thanks for understanding!

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Priscilla assumed an authoritative teaching role over men (Acts 18), and the “Elect Lady” (2 John) may well have been a prominent church leader with a congregation under her care.

Priscilla was with her husband in Acts 18. In 2 John, the elder was just reminding the elect lady not to have fellowship with unbelievers and not to accept them in her home, not even wish them Godspeed. No mention of her being a Church leader. Since there is no mention of a husband, the lady was probably a widow so the elder is trying to be protective of her.

 

[Judges1318]

There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 14 about "seizing pastoral authority". There is nothing in there about pastoral authority at all.

You're claiming that "be silent" doesn't mean "be silent" and by doing that, you are being just as "liberal" as you accuse me of being. Consistent application of the "plain words" of Paul demands that women be absolutely silent; no talking, no preaching, no singing, praying, prophesying, or chatting with the new lady who is bewildered by the strangeness of this thing called "church". No vocalizing whatsoever. Your congregation practices that, right?

You don't seem to realize that your interpretation of vs. 34-36 that women should not speak in church for cultural and/or corrective reasons...

34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? - 1 Corinthians 14:34-36

...completely nullifies vs. 26-33, which you say means women CAN speak in church (which I agree with).

26What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. - 1 Corinthians 14:26-33

So, we need to plug a little logic in and ask ourselves what it is, then, that women are to be silent about in church if Paul just asserted the necessity for all, including women, to prophesy, instruct, interpret, etc. As I said, vs. 36 gives us the clue as to what that is:

36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? - 1 Corinthians 14:36

In light of the other passages about women in the church, like this one...

"11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." - 1 Timothy 2:11-12

...it has to mean being quiet in regard to speaking with assumed pastoral or leadership authority. The common denominator that we are to key off of in each passage in order to arrive at a reasonable and logical explanation for women being quiet in church is the 'she must be quiet', and 'Women should remain silent' parts of each passage. Together they point to the matter of women speaking in the role of pastoral authority and leadership in the church, not being silent altogether.

I learned a long time ago, the Bible is it's own best interpreter. Examine everything the Bible says about a subject and see how the various passages about that subject can fit together, without them contradicting each other when forming personal doctrinal positions. I'm kind of a geek, so applying logic to the scriptures comes kind of natural to me, anyway.

 

[tourist]

How on God's green earth is being created second a cultural issue?


The topic he is addressing here is authoritative TEACHING.

"34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?" - 1 Corinthians 14:34-36

You can see he's addressing the misplaced assertiveness of women in matters of the Word, telling them they are not to be allowed to exert an authority in teaching the word of God that, by nature, they do not possess.

Does this mean a man should never listen to a woman talk about the Word? Or that a man can never learn anything of value about the Word from a woman? Of course not. It means a woman should never hold a position of authority, like a pastor or elder, in the church regarding the Word. God does not use women in that capacity. Only men. And even then, only men that have been specifically called and equipped for that office. So that rules even you and me out! Get over it. Just accept what Paul, who has that authority, says about it.

Deborah was a judge over Israel. That was definitely a position of authority that God appointed her to. I also believe that a judge of Israel is a much higher position than a mere pastor or elder in some local church.

 

[tourist]

I don't know if we should consider four to be a lot. But anyway, Deborah was raised up to shame the men of that day who didn't have the courage to fulfill their God given leadership roles.

Does scripture actual state this as the reason that God appointed her as a judge of Israel or is this your own personal opinion?

 

[tourist]

Within a marriage, I think the Bible is clear than man is head of the household. However, otherwise women can be in positions of authority over men. Deborah was one of the judges in Israel. There are a lot of female prophets in the OT. In the NT, Phoebe is referred to as a "Deacon."

This is most certainly correct.

 

[Judges1318]

Priscilla was with her husband in Acts 18.

...but not in church from a pastoral authoritative role.
Women can surely share the gospel with people.
I don't know that they are prohibited from being evangelists.
But does being able to evangelize mean she can be a pastor, too?

In 2 John, the elder was just reminding the elect lady not to have fellowship with unbelievers and not to accept them in her home, not even wish them Godspeed. No mention of her being a Church leader. Since there is no mention of a husband, the lady was probably a widow so the elder is trying to be protective of her.

Remember, the church is a 'she'. And she's definitely no widow.
He's referring to the church. The individual congregants are her children.

 

[tourist]

...but not in church from a pastoral authoritative role.
Women can surely share the gospel with people.
I don't know that they are prohibited from being evangelists.
But does being able to evangelize mean she can be a pastor, too?


Remember, the church is a 'she'. And she's definitely no widow.
He's referring to the church. The individual congregants are her children.

Huh?

 

[Judges1318]

Does scripture actual state this as the reason that God appointed her as a judge of Israel or is this your own personal opinion?

It's in the story.
The dude wimped out and she took the bull by the horns and had to act the part of the man since he wouldn't.
Going by memory.
Will post the scriptures later.
Off to Walmart.....

 

[Judges1318]

Huh?

Read the passages referenced while considering what I said about each.
I'll explain more if you don't get what I'm saying.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Within a marriage, I think the Bible is clear than man is head of the household. However, otherwise women can be in positions of authority over men. Deborah was one of the judges in Israel. There are a lot of female prophets in the OT. In the NT, Phoebe is referred to as a "Deacon."

The Bible says women cannot become Church leaders. Deaconess is a position of service mostly to fellow women, like preparing women for baptism, not leadership.

 

[tourist]

It's in the story.
The dude wimped out and she took the bull by the horns and had to act the part of the man since he wouldn't.
Going by memory.
Will post the scriptures later.
Off to Walmart.....

God appointed her to this highly elevated position of authority. God could have chose a man but He chose this specific woman. Apparently, God didn't get the memo that woman should not hold positions of authority. There are many other examples as well of women in positions of authority in the bible.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Priscilla was with her husband in Acts 18. In 2 John, the elder was just reminding the elect lady not to have fellowship with unbelievers and not to accept them in her home, not even wish them Godspeed. No mention of her being a Church leader. Since there is no mention of a husband, the lady was probably a widow so the elder is trying to be protective of her.

That Priscilla was with her husband is not too relevant. So it is okay for married women to have teaching authority/pastor over other men, but not single women? I don't think this point is too relevant.

On the elect lady, the point is more that John addressed the letter to her (as though she is a pastor figure), and not a man. "Elect Lady" is a special title. John also tells her to continue teaching. But yes, this is a bit of an assumption that she is a pastor figure, but a strong one I think.