Not By Works

Melach · Jan 6, 2020

VCO said:

WRONG, but your mistake is common among some believers. Your mistake is you include disciples that were NOT BORN AGAIN, as being part of US BORN AGAIN Believers. Disciples means FOLLOWER OF A TEACHER, and DOES NOT MEAN they are Born Again or SAVED. WE DO NOT INCLUDE DISCIPLES THAT WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN. Only BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS will be taken to Heaven, and they will NEVER FALL AWAY.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[,That "born of water" is a reference to the breaking of water, in Natural Childbirth. A follower of Jesus can be one that has never been Born Again. However, we do not count them as being one of us, Born Again Believers. How do I know that is a reference to Natural Childbirth? Look at the next verse.]
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Matthew 7:20-23 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' [.These are those disciples that have NEVER been Born Again.]
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

That I never knew you is a reference to the Born Again experience. John 10:27-28
They had never received HIM as LORD, meaning Master. Rom. 10:9-10, says IT MUST BE A CONFESSION, that happens first IN your human spirit, whereas they only PROFESSED it.
They Never had the inner, personal Relationship, where You are immersed IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY, by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:12-13
They Remain, lord of their own Lives. John 1:12-13
They Fail to Produce Any Spiritual Fruit, Gal. 5:22-23

If you could get over the idea that everyone who goes to Church and sits on a Pew, is a Christian. It would go a mile towards restoring the Fellowship between us. Let me explain the Parable of the Gates in Mat. 7, I think it will shed some light on the subject.

In the Parable of the Gates, HE is talking about only people who think they are Christians.

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

Every single person on those the ROADS, think they are on the right path to heaven. Every single person calls Him LORD. NOW read again Mat 7:22. NOTICE the Many in verse 22, are the Same as the many in verse 13. OH MY! That is what I mean that there is NO NON CHRISTIANS listed in Verse 13. The verse numbers were not added to the English Bible until 1560. John, inspired BY THE LORD, is talking about HOW TO TELL PHONY CHRISTIANS FROM TRUE CHRISTIANS. And HE said many not me. OH MY! I hope a light bulb just when on, inside your intellect.

Now Notice:

Matthew 7:20 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Fruits are Lifestyle Characteristics, not something that happens one time, or even on rare occasions, but something that dominates their LIFESTYLE. So we can too identify what is going on in their hearts, by carefully watching what kind of FRUITS IT PRODUCES in their lives. It may take awhile with some people and others it will happen more quickly.

Here are Good Spiritual Fruits, followed By BAD FRUITS:

Galatians 5:22-26 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is {agape} love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.
26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Now for the BAD FRUIT that Characterize False Christians Lives:

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

HE said we can identify them by their FRUITS. I have to believe HIM! Now without naming names, some have exhibited BAD FRUITS that I just highlight; that characterizes the dominant characteristics of some who have posted here. If your human spirit is BORN AGAIN, you will have no problem Producing those spiritual Fruits in your life.

Now remember BAD FRUITS is not a one time failure or sin, but that which dominates your lifestyle. Therefore those who exhibit an ongoing lifestyle of Bad Fruits in verse 20; we can be sure they have never been born again.

I hope we can agree on this post.

great post i agree with it . i love you VCO i want to kiss you. really well put together. this should make us all agree and stop arguing about it

Discern · Jan 6, 2020

VCO said:

I think sanctification is one of the purposes or goals of salvation. Being predestnated to be conformed to the image of His Son. Accomplished progressively in practical sanctification and completed in glorification

But you are correct in that new birth, justification, adoption, and positional sanctification occur immedietely in faith, and apart from any works whatsoever

Rosemaryx · Jan 6, 2020

Truth...

Chris1975 · Jan 6, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

And how is one to know if they are a sheep or a goat? By what they do.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

VCO · Jan 6, 2020

Discern said:

I can deal with that as you worded it. I however Paul worded it:

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 (NIV)
26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.
27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Making it PART OF LOVE FOR GOD, and not Salvation.

VCO · Jan 6, 2020

Chris1975 said:

And how is one to know if they are a sheep or a goat? By what they do.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

You do not LISTEN do you.

Matthew 7:15-20 (NIV)
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

Discern said:

The logical conclusion.....

a. Does he finish it and complete it?

IF one says NO then they make JESUS a liar.......

HE WILL finish and complete it <----IT is IMPOSSIBLE for JESUS to fail in this......to say ONE can walk away, lose it and lose salvation MEANS that JESUS does NOT finish it and complete it!

Rosemaryx · Jan 6, 2020

Chris1975 said:

And how is one to know if they are a sheep or a goat? By what they do.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The goats and the sheep will be seperated , I hear His voice , I am in His flock , I have gone through the door , the gate , and like ALL His sheep , we are of His flock , and NOTHING can separate us from Gods amazing love , what a glorious place to be , in my LORD , and He in me , the pasture is beautiful on this side of everlasting life

, eternally secure forever and ever and ever , ETERNALLY SECURE...

Thank You LORD Jesus for SAVING a wretch like me , all the glory to God Amen...

Chris1975 · Jan 6, 2020

VCO said:

James 2
My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

AMEN brother......and JESUS finishes and completes it IN US....regardless because if we BECOME faithless, HE ABIDES faithful to his promise to FINISH it and COMPLETE it!

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

AMEN ROSE.....any gospel that MAN must MAINTAIN steals Glory from GOD/JESUS.........it is ALL CHRIST all the way or it is a fraudulent gospel from hell that has no power to save anyone....exactly why the number is MANY that come before the throne claiming JESUS as LORD and expecting to ENTER based upon what they have DONE in his name <----MOST so called Christian religions peddle this....Ralph A.K.A. Judges, Stillness, and several other clowns that I have on ignore peddle this fraudulent gospel.......

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

EleventhHour said:

AMEN......overrun is the word.....religionists, cainologists, workers for and salvation losing Pharisees......

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

And notice the word calling is singular......EVEN the CALL is irrevocable.......

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

Praise GOD Rose you have seen the light and understand that these clowns are not really trusting JESUS........any dogma that must be maintained by MAN is not from or of GOD!

Rosemaryx · Jan 6, 2020

dcontroversal said:

The only thing I have learned from them is how a person does not trust Jesus ...
Instead of rejoicing , they rip apart most Scripture that is posted and turn it towards their misunderstanding...

I can understand people who genuinely want to learn , and be taught , but I do not get that from them at all , it grieves my heart that they think this way , we are to come to God with nothing in our hands , surrender everything , and be filled with Jesus , they cannot be filled with our LORD when they are full of their own ways , the end days are closer than we think , may we all be humble before God ...xox...

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

THEY will be fighting it even when being cast into hell-->LORD, LORD have we not done blah, blah, blah in your name..........at least 5 of them on this thread.....

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

And like the Pharisees, the things they point at us are actually indicative of themselves......

JohnW34 · Jan 6, 2020

dcontroversal said:

Amen. Jesus will complete the work in our hearts to bring us to perfection in Him.

Col 1:28
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

If Jesus can do this without any believers doing anything, why is the church not perfect already?
And all the failure, surely this would be God failing to perfect His church, as it is all in His hands?

Gal 6:8-9
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

1 Cor 3:6
I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow.

Surely this says we must be faithful, to reap the maturity and reality of the gift

1 Cor 15:58
Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labour in the Lord is not in vain

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

Rosemaryx said:

Motive....Only one entity desires to twist God's word to lead people astray...Satan did it in the garden, then had his false prophets do it, tried to twist it and skew it with JESUS and to this very day his children do the same thing....to deny the surety of God's word, the validity of God's word, to lead people into a false gospel that sounds very biblical but has no power...He uses religions, false prophets, false teachers etc. to skew the truth......

Ralph, A.K.A. Judges, Chris, Stillness, NAYO and others are as false as they come.......they have a form of Godliness, but DENY the power thereof by their skewed, false gospels they spread like MAYO on a "sammich" .....NO power and NOT of GOD

dcontroversal · Jan 6, 2020

JohnW34 said:

LOOK..... A) salvation, justification, positional sanctification and being sealed are ALL a done deal in CHRIST eternally given and applied by faith.....

B) THE process of daily sanctification and transformation, growth and maturity are COMPLETELY separate from the above......it is a process, is subject to growth, maturity, the level of teaching and transformation per Romans 12:1-2 and if fully SUBJECT to successes and or failures..........

These clowns CONFLATE the A and B above and in so doing end up with a skewed false gospel that has no power to do either.....!

Not By Works

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