Gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable???????????

[Grandpa]

Still doing violence to the scriptures.

Look at the word "BUT".

It doesn't say many are called AND few are chosen.

It says many are called BUT few are chosen.

Meaning, in plain English, that the two are related to one another.

Yes. Let me explain.

Say there is a commander that is in charge of recruitment.

He puts posters up, signs and has people tell other people about joining.

Not only does he do this but then he personally goes out and chooses certain people to be part of his army.



So there would be two groups. Those that are called (by the signs and people telling people) and those that are chosen.


Now lets say the group that is called is much larger than the group that is chosen. But they are all in the same army.


It could be said "Many are called but few are chosen".

Right?

 

[Chris1975]

Yes. Let me explain.

Say there is a commander that is in charge of recruitment.

He puts posters up, signs and has people tell other people about joining.

Not only does he do this but then he personally goes out and chooses certain people to be part of his army.



So there would be two groups. Those that are called (by the signs and people telling people) and those that are chosen.


Now lets say the group that is called is much larger than the group that is chosen. But they are all in the same army.


It could be said "Many are called but few are chosen".

Right?

Wrong !

We look at the preceding verses:

Matthew 22
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, [b]take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

The many called were those who did not prepare themselves as the bride. Those who had the wedding garments were chosen.


We don't need to engineer the word to fit our doctrines. Its very plain to see what the meaning is.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes. Let me explain.

Say there is a commander that is in charge of recruitment.

He puts posters up, signs and has people tell other people about joining.

Not only does he do this but then he personally goes out and chooses certain people to be part of his army.



So there would be two groups. Those that are called (by the signs and people telling people) and those that are chosen.


Now lets say the group that is called is much larger than the group that is chosen. But they are all in the same army.


It could be said "Many are called but few are chosen".

Right?

Your scenario generates a question from me, and that is; Are you believing that there will only be a few in heaven?

 

[Chris1975]

Your scenario generates a question from me, and that is; Are you believing that there will only be a few in heaven?

Luke 13
23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Wrong !

We look at the preceding verses:

Matthew 22
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, [b]take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

The many called were those who did not prepare themselves as the bride. Those who had the wedding garments were chosen.


We don't need to engineer the word to fit our doctrines. Its very plain to see what the meaning is.

The event is a wedding. The context is referencing the Bride of Christ, which is his church. Those who are wearing the appropriate wedding garment are those who are displaying the knowledge that they have had the righteousness of Christ imputed unto them. The wedding garment is "the righteousness of Christ". Many elect are called, but only a few of the called elect have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them "the knowledge that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ". All of the called elect have been given the inheritance of eternal heaven, but only a few of those called elect have been revealed the knowledge of the doctrine that Jesus taught, and those few make up the bride of Christ, his church.

 

[Chris1975]

The event is a wedding. The context is referencing the Bride of Christ, which is his church. Those who are wearing the appropriate wedding garment are those who are displaying the knowledge that they have had the righteousness of Christ imputed unto them. The wedding garment is "the righteousness of Christ". Many elect are called, but only a few of the called elect have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them "the knowledge that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ". All of the called elect have been given the inheritance of eternal heaven, but only a few of those called elect have been revealed the knowledge of the doctrine that Jesus taught, and those few make up the bride of Christ, his church.

For the Red Font Highlighted Section, is this mere opinion or can you back this up with scripture? Looking for crisp support for what you are saying. Not into speculation mode.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Luke 13
23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

I have related the fact that "saved", according to the Greek interpretation, means "a deliverance". I don't remember if I have given you this knowledge or not. Many of the scriptures that use the words, saved, salvation, save, are not referencing eternal salvation, but are referencing a deliverance that we receive here in time, as we sojourn here in this world. There is a deliverance when the Holy Spirit reveals the truths of the scriptures to us,

Matt 7:13-14, Enter ye in at the strait gate, For wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that findeth it. (Many are called, but few chosen). The many that go into the wide gate are those of the elect that make up the congregations that are believing and preaching a false doctrine, and the few that go in the strait gate are those elect that have been revealed the truth of the doctrine of Jesus. Notice that go into the strait gate had been searching before they found it. The "life" that it leads them to was not eternal life, but that good, and abundant life that we enjoy by following God's commandments, and worshiping him in truth and in the spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

For the Red Font Highlighted Section, is this mere opinion or can you back this up with scripture? Looking for crisp support for what you are saying. Not into speculation mode.

See my post #27.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Still doing violence to the scriptures.

Look at the word "BUT".

It doesn't say many are called AND few are chosen.

It says many are called BUT few are chosen.

Meaning, in plain English, that the two are related to one another.

And Is a conjunction joining two statements ,
But Is a conjunction showing how two statements differ.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

For the Red Font Highlighted Section, is this mere opinion or can you back this up with scripture? Looking for crisp support for what you are saying. Not into speculation mode.

I believe the scriptures to support the fact that those who will be present in heaven will be enumberal. (many are called) Their number is compared to as many as the sands of the seashore, and the stars in the sky, Gen 22:17. Gen 32:12. Isaiah 10:20-22. Jeremiah 33:22. Hosea 1:10. Romans 9:27. Heb 11:11-13. But only a few (remnant) of them, which make up the church, will be revealed the truth of Jesus's doctrine.

 

[Grandpa]

Your scenario generates a question from me, and that is; Are you believing that there will only be a few in heaven?

I think there are only a few that have a real, deep faith in the Lord Jesus.

But I think the Lord honors all faith, great and small.

So, I think it will probably be a lot more than most people expect.

 

[Grandpa]

Wrong !

We look at the preceding verses:

Matthew 22
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, [b]take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

The many called were those who did not prepare themselves as the bride. Those who had the wedding garments were chosen.


We don't need to engineer the word to fit our doctrines. Its very plain to see what the meaning is.

I'm not sure how anything I have said is different from this scenario.

The many that are called and the few that are chosen.

 

[Chris1975]

I'm not sure how anything I have said is different from this scenario.

The many that are called and the few that are chosen.

This parable (Wedding Feast) is worth its own thread. Will continue on that side.

 

[NayborBear]

It is my experience here that when the scriptures can't be refuted, then the attacks become personal.

There's an old saying that goes:
"that which don't kill ya, makes ya stronger!"

Don't let 'em kill ya bro!

 

[Chris1975]

There's an old saying that goes:
"that which don't kill ya, makes ya stronger!"

Don't let 'em kill ya bro!

More energised than ever.

 

[Grandpa]

This parable (Wedding Feast) is worth its own thread. Will continue on that side.

I'll break it down for you really simply.

Those who show up to the wedding feast in their own dirty rags (their own works) think that they are called and that they have met all the "requirements" of salvation. (Lord, Lord haven't we done all these things in your name?)

These are the ones in the group that it is possible to "apostatize". At any point they can quit doing all the work required to gain salvation and just go back to whatever it is they did before.

These people weren't saved to begin with. They had a wrong understanding of who Christ is and what God wants from us.


Those who are chosen are GIVEN white garments as a gift. They are the workmanship of God. They have understanding of who Christ is and what God wants from us. They are Christs sheep and they hear His Voice and they follow Him.


All of the chosen were also called.

But not all of the called are also chosen.


John 10:26-28
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


You don't believe His Words. You don't believe that the Lord Jesus gives His Sheep eternal Life and they will never perish and that no man can pluck them from His Hand.

You believe the same thing as those with the dirty wedding garments. You believe that you must meet the requirements of salvation and that your best work is what is going to get you in.


Be careful that you don't apostatize. Oh no, you're going to lose salvation. Look at all the warnings. You are in dire trouble.

All these thoughts come from those with the dirty wedding garments. Those that think that it is their work that meets the requirements of salvation.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?