Not By Works
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John 8
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
> Those Jews who believed Him (v31) are the same Jews who answer Jesus "We are Abrahams descendants"
> "Salvation by Association" mindset.
> Jesus tell them who is REALLY SAVED. Those who are really saved are those who don't commit sin. If you CONTINUE to commit sin you are effectively a Slave and not a Son.
> Jesus says if He sets you free, you are free indeed. But Free from what? Free from serving your sin nature.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
> Those Jews who believed Him (v31) are the same Jews who answer Jesus "We are Abrahams descendants"
> "Salvation by Association" mindset.
> Jesus tell them who is REALLY SAVED. Those who are really saved are those who don't commit sin. If you CONTINUE to commit sin you are effectively a Slave and not a Son.
> Jesus says if He sets you free, you are free indeed. But Free from what? Free from serving your sin nature.
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We got at least 2 or 3 on this thread that say that same thing all the time.
They only know what they have been taught from their own pulpits.
I keep encouraging them that they should listen closely to what we OSAS BELIEVERS are telling them about our Beliefs.
They refuse to listen, then go on with their lies about what we actually believe. Which is ridiculous.
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Is salvation irrevocable?
Are you asking can a born again believer appear to lose their salvation?
The answer is yes. The church is full of examples of people who have gone cold.
Can I judge anyone or declare Gods response?
No. But I can treat believers as unbelievers if they do not resolve confronted sinful behaviour.
The Lord declares plainly many will believe He is their Lord, but they are wrong and are evil doers, or late, or unprepared, or lazy, or abusive or unforgiving etc.
Salvation as in walking in His ways, listening to Him, being born of the Spirit and doing His will, He will honour His promise and His word to His people. That is irrevocable. Paul stood on this foundation, the crown of life he was awaiting from the Lord, but always at His will and His timing.
Now I answer in this way because to the Lord I answer and His word, not man or peoples expectations, and I desire not to sin or dishonour the grace, mercy and love He has bestowed upon me. Amen
Foolishly some believe they can live like the world and claim rights like children of the King.
There is no such thing in the Kingdom, only rejection and knowing they are enemies of the Lord.
James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Are you asking can a born again believer appear to lose their salvation?
The answer is yes. The church is full of examples of people who have gone cold.
Can I judge anyone or declare Gods response?
No. But I can treat believers as unbelievers if they do not resolve confronted sinful behaviour.
The Lord declares plainly many will believe He is their Lord, but they are wrong and are evil doers, or late, or unprepared, or lazy, or abusive or unforgiving etc.
Salvation as in walking in His ways, listening to Him, being born of the Spirit and doing His will, He will honour His promise and His word to His people. That is irrevocable. Paul stood on this foundation, the crown of life he was awaiting from the Lord, but always at His will and His timing.
Now I answer in this way because to the Lord I answer and His word, not man or peoples expectations, and I desire not to sin or dishonour the grace, mercy and love He has bestowed upon me. Amen
Foolishly some believe they can live like the world and claim rights like children of the King.
There is no such thing in the Kingdom, only rejection and knowing they are enemies of the Lord.
James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
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I have to disagree concerning the internet not helping matters.
I believe it has put matters right where they need to be!
In one's mind, and heart, and spirit!
Where in a forum setting such as this?
One can voice one's thoughts completely, honestly, and truthfully. Should one wish to. Without the "setting/s" that "being in the flesh", tend to do.
This "setting" tends to aid in the "mental/spiritual/Spiritual" Disciplines that are so required in not only gaining access to the "strait gate", to which we all should agree, is in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. But, even more, as to the finding of, and keeping onwards to our Father (leaving the principles of the doctrines of Christ, as well as the grace which the Father has given Christ to those who believe in Him. Yanno the Father didn't give ALL His grace TO Jesus) in Heaven through Jesus' confessing (Jesus' blessing, if you will) us before "the Father", as we confess Jesus before people.
The internet having been called "the new WILD WEST?" Seems a very good place in researching and developing the "Spiritual Armour" believers are in SO NEEDS of in these last days!
Forums, such as this one, in particular, is the best one I've come across, in delivering messages of hope for those hearts whom God has not made sad, by strengthened wicked hands, made bolder, from those who promise life to them!
On the "down" side? I've seen some good hearts made sad in here.
And believe it, or not? I've been to more then a few handfuls of forums and chat rooms!
I believe it has put matters right where they need to be!
In one's mind, and heart, and spirit!
Where in a forum setting such as this?
One can voice one's thoughts completely, honestly, and truthfully. Should one wish to. Without the "setting/s" that "being in the flesh", tend to do.
This "setting" tends to aid in the "mental/spiritual/Spiritual" Disciplines that are so required in not only gaining access to the "strait gate", to which we all should agree, is in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. But, even more, as to the finding of, and keeping onwards to our Father (leaving the principles of the doctrines of Christ, as well as the grace which the Father has given Christ to those who believe in Him. Yanno the Father didn't give ALL His grace TO Jesus) in Heaven through Jesus' confessing (Jesus' blessing, if you will) us before "the Father", as we confess Jesus before people.
The internet having been called "the new WILD WEST?" Seems a very good place in researching and developing the "Spiritual Armour" believers are in SO NEEDS of in these last days!
Forums, such as this one, in particular, is the best one I've come across, in delivering messages of hope for those hearts whom God has not made sad, by strengthened wicked hands, made bolder, from those who promise life to them!
On the "down" side? I've seen some good hearts made sad in here.
And believe it, or not? I've been to more then a few handfuls of forums and chat rooms!
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E
This verse does not support your conditional view of salvation at all.
Jesus never gave any condition to holding on to eternal life and neither would Paul.
Jesus loses none who come to Him (John 6:39-40). The one who lives and believes in Him will never die spiritually (John 11:26).
Paul is holding peril over them by listening to the false teachers .. the peril being that if the resurrection did not happen they believed in vain.
You are saved today if you hold fast the word which I preached to you (15:2). Paul has stated that they heard and received and are standing and are saved. But now he adds a conditional clause.
When he says they are saved, he is assuming that something is true.....Paul is assuming that they are holding fast to the message that he preached to them.
If you do not start right you will never, ever make sense of scripture... what incoherent mess conditional salvationists make.
Jesus never gave any condition to holding on to eternal life and neither would Paul.
Jesus loses none who come to Him (John 6:39-40). The one who lives and believes in Him will never die spiritually (John 11:26).
Paul is holding peril over them by listening to the false teachers .. the peril being that if the resurrection did not happen they believed in vain.
You are saved today if you hold fast the word which I preached to you (15:2). Paul has stated that they heard and received and are standing and are saved. But now he adds a conditional clause.
When he says they are saved, he is assuming that something is true.....Paul is assuming that they are holding fast to the message that he preached to them.
If you do not start right you will never, ever make sense of scripture... what incoherent mess conditional salvationists make.
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