Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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edit

irrevocable gift!!

auto correct sigh


YES, AMEN! and AMEN!


Ephesians 2:5 (ESV)
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses,
made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved


Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.


EVERY OSAS BELIEVER,
QUOTE THOSE THREE VERSES TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION.
 
4
Was reading Romans 4 tonight, and verse 4 brought this thread to mind, so rebooted the puter to share something(s) found interesting yet disturbing about different Bible translations when it came to verse 5.

The King James Version has verse 5 'But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness'.

Really did not know there are so many different versions out there, but read about 30 different ones, and was amazed. No wonder God's Word is distorted and some folk's doctrines and beliefs seem wacky to me. One version that really got me was the Contemporary English Version (never heard of it, btw). Verse 5 reads: 'But you cannot make God accept you because of something you do. God accepts sinners only because they have faith in him'. ??????!!!!

GOD'S Word Translation, Douay-Rheims Bible, Weymouth New Testament, Young's Literal Translation...so many. God's Translation(s), or man's?


Did not mean to take away from the topic dcon sir, and apologize. Just really felt the need to share. God is not the author of confusion; mankind definitely adds to the confusion with so many different versions, and some so far out of touch it ain't even funny. **Btw, NOT a KJV - only reader**

Do believe as the OP ... Ephesians 2:8-9 sums it up great also.


Thank you sir.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
JESUS never knew them, yet YOU say HE knew them once (were saved) and then lost it and now he does not KNOW THEM
No?....You are the one saying Jesus knew them!
I said they believed THEY knew Jesus. Never said n'ary a word concerning Jesus EVER "knowing them!"

See how even now, you must "twist" words, to keep your "eternal security" agenda? This only comes from the "author of confusion!"

Here, I'll explain it so simply? That any "child of light" can understand it.

If the real Jesus didn't know them?

The "jesus" they really believed?

Couldn't have been the real Jesus, now could it?

If it wasn't the real Jesus? Then, it was the FALSE jesus!

The spirit of anti-christ! Is WHO they REALLY BELIEVED!

IOW? They believed a LIE!

And that, is HOW ya spell DELUSION!

Am "hoping" you understand it too! :)
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
This particular thread has become a Ghetto of sorts. It has probably long lost its saltiness. It is beyond any edification at this stage as nobody will be scrolling through reams and reams of slugging OSAS vs NOSAS. Timeless truths are lost on page 192732726. The whole matter can be summed up in one verse:
James 2v14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
This thread has a resident foul mouthed contributor who is no example to the Christian faith. I say, let them have him. The whole matter, and then some, has already been discussed. A far better ROI can be achieved in terms of reaching and teaching on other threads. So from my side, I will extricate myself from what is rapidly becoming a silly exchange.
Yeah? I have to agree with ya there Chris1975! If the posts that have been written, hasn't revealed the mockers and scoffers, to their eyes, where even they would be able to see it?
Ezekiel 13:6
They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.


Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Was reading Romans 4 tonight, and verse 4 brought this thread to mind, so rebooted the puter to share something(s) found interesting yet disturbing about different Bible translations when it came to verse 5.

The King James Version has verse 5 'But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness'.

Really did not know there are so many different versions out there, but read about 30 different ones, and was amazed. No wonder God's Word is distorted and some folk's doctrines and beliefs seem wacky to me. One version that really got me was the Contemporary English Version (never heard of it, btw). Verse 5 reads: 'But you cannot make God accept you because of something you do. God accepts sinners only because they have faith in him'. ??????!!!!

GOD'S Word Translation, Douay-Rheims Bible, Weymouth New Testament, Young's Literal Translation...so many. God's Translation(s), or man's?


Did not mean to take away from the topic dcon sir, and apologize. Just really felt the need to share. God is not the author of confusion; mankind definitely adds to the confusion with so many different versions, and some so far out of touch it ain't even funny. **Btw, NOT a KJV - only reader**

Do believe as the OP ... Ephesians 2:8-9 sums it up great also.


Thank you sir.


Do you know that KJV was not a new Translation never translated from the original language manuscripts, the 1611 version was a Paraphrase? It was Paraphrase version to update the English Language that was outdated when King James authorized, and to CORRECT know errors in the 5 or 6 older English Translations. Her is the proof in the 1611 KJV, translation Teams words.

Quote: The Original Preface of the 1611 King James Version


Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .
. . .​

rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church,​
. . .

It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correc- tion; . . . { KNOWN ERRORS in the Septuagint } . . . that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it;

. . .
(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it;​

. . . But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite . . .​

Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy.
. . .

so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; . . .​

being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .​

Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } . . .

But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them . . .

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . .but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .​


{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. AND very few KJV Only People ever read the 1611 Original Preface. }
http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm

 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Eternal life also has refers to the quality of being.

you will “partake in the Divine Life that God possesses“: 2 Peter 1: 4.

Partaking of this "quality of life" starts here on earth where saved is saved.

I pray you come to understand this.
God the man (Jesus) did not have eternal life until he rose again.

Will people please stop making stuff up.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
YES, AMEN! and AMEN!


Ephesians 2:5 (ESV)
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses,
made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved


Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,

9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.


EVERY OSAS BELIEVER,
QUOTE THOSE THREE VERSES TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION.
That is when salvation is first given.

Now show scriptures that say salvation cannot be revoked.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are saved (present tense)

If you hold firmly to the Word...(quality of God's sheep)

Unless you have believed in vain. (to no effect)...or it could refer to the fact that if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen, and thus we would still be dead in our sins. Grave error of the Corinthians. If what they believed was true, (wasn't) they believed in vain, right?
This verse simply says,

if you trusted Christ, you are saved. Unless you believed in vein (Ie,the belief of James, Ie mental agreement)

ie, I believe Jesus, but did I trust him?

if I trusted him, I will hold firmly to the word,

if I just believed, I will not hold on to the word. Because trust never entered my mind,
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
This verse simply says,

if you trusted Christ, you are saved. Unless you believed in vein (Ie,the belief of James, Ie mental agreement)

ie, I believe Jesus, but did I trust him?
Critical difference to point out. There are many people (even "professing" Christians) who believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, yet they still do not believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You are saved (present tense)

If you hold firmly to the Word...(quality of God's sheep)

Unless you have believed in vain. (to no effect)...or it could refer to the fact that if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen, and thus we would still be dead in our sins. Grave error of the Corinthians. If what they believed was true, (wasn't) they believed in vain, right?
Yes, we know that Gnostic type belief was having influence on believers, and there were people stating the resurrection did not happen .... Paul feared they would doubt their faith experience, so Paul is reminding them of the peril if the resurrection had not happened....their belief would have been in vain.

Exactly.....in the entire passage Paul stronly reaffirms why the resurrection was essential.
We forget how new and radical this truth was back then.

As well the church at Corinth was a diverse group of people ... so they had a lot to learn.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God the man (Jesus) did not have eternal life until he rose again.

Will people please stop making stuff up.
Oh man

this just further exposes how off base you are.

Jesus was born spiritually alive, not spiritually dead

he did not need saved.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is when salvation is first given.

Now show scriptures that say salvation cannot be revoked.
Ever heard the word eternal, forever, never ending?

they are all in scripture


if it CAN be lost, it CAN be earned. Christ died in vein.

It’s Christianity 101
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
113
But your body is going to give you some BAD Surprises soon. ;)

Aches,
Pains,
Arthritis,
Memory Loss,
Extra Trips to the Restroom,
Can't get warm enough,
Etc.
Etc.
i hope i wont wake up tomorrow lolz. how bad are the aches and pains? also i believe thats why many people retire at places like florida because its warm. so maybe there they can get warm enough.

i was just reading a study that said that warm weather is actually better for our bodies. i still enjoy winter here in finland.