The what? Skins?

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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#1
#1
This is the contribution which you are to raise from them: gold, silver and bronze, blue, purple and scarlet material, fine linen, goat hair, rams’ skins dyed red, porpoise skins, acacia wood,
Exodus 25:3‭-‬5 NASB

Porpoise skins?

por'-pus (the Revised Version margin has "porpoise-skin" for `or tachash, the Revised Version (British and American) "sealskin," the King James Version "badgers' skins" (Exodus 25:5; 26:14; 35:7,23; 36:19; 39:34; Numbers 4:6,8,10,11,12,14,25; Ezekiel 16:10)):
(for shoes in Ezekiel 16:10).

The word here seems to be tachash, which is some kind of a mystery animal. I read an article that said it was quite possibly a one horned beast large enough that the covering was from only one animal. So there are many speculations as to what this could be from the King James badger too the Babylonian Torah's unicorn.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#2
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#2
Locoponydirtman said:
This is the contribution which you are to raise from them: gold, silver and bronze, blue, purple and scarlet material, fine linen, goat hair, rams’ skins dyed red, porpoise skins, acacia wood,
Exodus 25:3‭-‬5 NASB

Porpoise skins?

por'-pus (the Revised Version margin has "porpoise-skin" for `or tachash, the Revised Version (British and American) "sealskin," the King James Version "badgers' skins" (Exodus 25:5; 26:14; 35:7,23; 36:19; 39:34; Numbers 4:6,8,10,11,12,14,25; Ezekiel 16:10)):
(for shoes in Ezekiel 16:10).

The word here seems to be tachash, which is some kind of a mystery animal. I read an article that said it was quite possibly a one horned beast large enough that the covering was from only one animal. So there are many speculations as to what this could be from the King James badger too the Babylonian Torah's unicorn.
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It's badger skins. The toughest, most water proof material to cover the tabernacle to keep the weather out.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#4
#4
John146 said:
It's badger skins. The toughest, most water proof material to cover the tabernacle to keep the weather out.
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A lot of stitches required in that many badger skins. More stitches more potential for leaks, plus my doubts because Badgers aren't clean animals. All of the other animals that are used are kosher if you will.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#5
Jan 13, 2016
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#5
Locoponydirtman said:
A lot of stitches required in that many badger skins. More stitches more potential for leaks, plus my doubts because Badgers aren't clean animals. All of the other animals that are used are kosher if you will.
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Well, that's that the bible says. Are you going with Porpoise or seals, lol?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#6
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
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#6
John146 said:
It's badger skins. The toughest, most water proof material to cover the tabernacle to keep the weather out.
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On what evidence do you make this assertion?
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#9
#9
John146 said:
Well, that's that the bible says. Are you going with Porpoise or seals, lol?
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The Bible says : תְּחָשִׁ֖ים, teḥā·šîmʹ

No one is quite sure of what this is exactly

I'm not pretending to know, as some do. I'm not a smug know it all who proves myself foolish daily.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#10
Jan 13, 2016
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#10
Dino246 said:
Exactly as I suspected. Can you provide any objective evidence to support that choice of word?
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This is from a friend of mine who has studied this extensively.

The Hebrew word translated in the King James Bible and many others as “badgers” is tag-ghash and it is found 14 times in the Old Testament. The King James Bible translates all 14 instances of this word as “BADGERS skins.” (See Exodus 25:5; 26:14; 35:7,23; 36:19; 39:34; Numbers 4:6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 and Ezekiel 16:10 - “I…shod thee with BADGERS’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen”

Bible translations that agree with the King James Bible's "badgers skins" are the NKJV 1982, Geneva 1599, The Bill Bible 1671, Webster's 1833, The Longman Version 1841, the Lesser Old Testament of 1853, The Revised English Bible 1877, Darby 1890, Young's 1898, the 1936 Jewish translation (Hebrew Publishing Company New York), Rotherham's Emphasized Bible of 1902, The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907, New Life Bible 1992, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century 1994, Third Millennium Bible 1998, The Revised Geneva Bible 2005, Bond Slave Version 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 - "BADGER'S SKINS", Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010 - "covering of BADGER SKINS", English Jubilee Bible 2010, The Easy English Bible 2010, the Natural Israelite Bible 2012 - "BADGER'S SKINS", The Far Above All Translation 2014.

Also agreeing:
The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907 - "and a covering above of BADGERS' SKINS"
This online Hebrew Interlinear Old Testament - "and a covering of skins BADGERS above"
The Hebrew Transliteration Scriptures 2010 - "a covering of BADGER'S skins."

And almost every foreign language Bible around the world.

"Badgers' skins were tough, durable, non-porous, water repellent, and weather resistant. Protection was its purpose. Beauty was inside the Tabernacle. The outside withstood the rain, storms, and the sun. Jesus withstood the torture, ridicule, and shame of the Cross for our sake. He weathered the storm that we might enjoy the beauty inside. No dimensions were given for the two upper coverings of rams' skins dyed red or badgers' skins. The cleansing power of Jesus' blood (rams' skins dyed red) is immeasurable. The durable badgers' skins typify the boundless protection and security of believers in Christ.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#11
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,798
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#11
John146 said:
This is from a friend of mine who has studied this extensively.

The Hebrew word translated in the King James Bible and many others as “badgers” is tag-ghash and it is found 14 times in the Old Testament. The King James Bible translates all 14 instances of this word as “BADGERS skins.” (See Exodus 25:5; 26:14; 35:7,23; 36:19; 39:34; Numbers 4:6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 and Ezekiel 16:10 - “I…shod thee with BADGERS’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen”

Bible translations that agree with the King James Bible's "badgers skins" are the NKJV 1982, Geneva 1599, The Bill Bible 1671, Webster's 1833, The Longman Version 1841, the Lesser Old Testament of 1853, The Revised English Bible 1877, Darby 1890, Young's 1898, the 1936 Jewish translation (Hebrew Publishing Company New York), Rotherham's Emphasized Bible of 1902, The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907, New Life Bible 1992, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century 1994, Third Millennium Bible 1998, The Revised Geneva Bible 2005, Bond Slave Version 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 - "BADGER'S SKINS", Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010 - "covering of BADGER SKINS", English Jubilee Bible 2010, The Easy English Bible 2010, the Natural Israelite Bible 2012 - "BADGER'S SKINS", The Far Above All Translation 2014.

Also agreeing:
The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907 - "and a covering above of BADGERS' SKINS"
This online Hebrew Interlinear Old Testament - "and a covering of skins BADGERS above"
The Hebrew Transliteration Scriptures 2010 - "a covering of BADGER'S skins."

And almost every foreign language Bible around the world.

"Badgers' skins were tough, durable, non-porous, water repellent, and weather resistant. Protection was its purpose. Beauty was inside the Tabernacle. The outside withstood the rain, storms, and the sun. Jesus withstood the torture, ridicule, and shame of the Cross for our sake. He weathered the storm that we might enjoy the beauty inside. No dimensions were given for the two upper coverings of rams' skins dyed red or badgers' skins. The cleansing power of Jesus' blood (rams' skins dyed red) is immeasurable. The durable badgers' skins typify the boundless protection and security of believers in Christ.
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Frankly, I'm surprised that you would include evidence of other translations, as you reject every translation other than the KJV. The only pre-1611 translation noted is the Geneva Bible, meaning the KJV translators probably just followed the GB, and the later translations just followed the KJV. The sum total of your non-translation evidence is the first sentence in the last paragraph, and no support is provided for it.

If you had scientific evidence that badger skin is more durable and waterproof than the skin of any other animal found in the Middle East, then I might accept it. You'd also have to demonstrate that badgers are clean animals; good luck with that one.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
Badger skins are not nonporous, they have hair, they actually have thick heavy hairy coats. And even if it were by the time you sew hundreds of them together it wouldn't be.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#13
Jan 13, 2016
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#13
Dino246 said:
Frankly, I'm surprised that you would include evidence of other translations, as you reject every translation other than the KJV.
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That was for you and others to show how other translations also use badger's skins.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#14
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
et pelles arietum rubricatas pelles ianthinas et ligna setthim



Vulgate has 'rams skins'
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#15
Jul 31, 2013
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#15
John146 said:
That was for you and others to show how other translations also use badger's skins.
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A lot of other translations derive from kjv especially when they come to words whose meaning is unclear
Therefore, to me anyway, other translations deferring to the kjv in this case is not convincing evidence.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#16
Jan 13, 2016
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#16
posthuman said:
et pelles arietum rubricatas pelles ianthinas et ligna setthim



Vulgate has 'rams skins'
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"Thou shalt make a covering for the tent of ram's skins dyed RED, and a covering of BADGER'S skins".

Rams skins is not what's in question. The tent was made of lamb skins, it's the latter part of the verse that's in question.

The Latin Vulgate reads: "et pelles arietum rubricatas pelles ianthinas et ligna setthim" which translates as "And rams' skins dyed red, and the wood of shittim wood, the curtains of VIOLET COLORED SKINS."

What are the "violet colored skins?"
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#17
#17
I'm trying to post am article
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#19
Jun 30, 2015
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#19
Locoponydirtman said:
https://www.thetorah.com/article/what-was-the-tachash-covering-the-tabernacle
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Thanks! That makes far more sense.

For those who choose not to read the linked article, evidence from archaeological studies suggests that the term in question refers to fancy beaded leather, rather than to a particular kind of animal. The word "badger" comes from the German word for badger, which is phonetically similar to the Hebrew term, and not from any particular zoological knowledge.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#20
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#20
Dino246 said:
Thanks! That makes far more sense.

For those who choose not to read the linked article, evidence from archaeological studies suggests that the term in question refers to fancy beaded leather, rather than to a particular kind of animal. The word "badger" comes from the German word for badger, which is phonetically similar to the Hebrew term, and not from any particular zoological knowledge.
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The only problem with this is the Latin Vulgate does NOT say Tachus or anything even remotely close to this. The Latin Vulgate reads: "et pelles arietum rubricatas pelles ianthinas et ligna setthim" which translates as "And rams' skins dyed red, and the wood of shittim wood, the curtains of VIOLET COLORED SKINS."

Again, the Hebrew word translated in the King James Bible and many others as “badgers” is tag-ghash and it is found 14 times in the Old Testament. The King James Bible translates all 14 instances of this word as “BADGERS skins.” (See Exodus 25:5; 26:14; 35:7,23; 36:19; 39:34; Numbers 4:6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 and Ezekiel 16:10 - “I…shod thee with BADGERS’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen”
 
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